Barak to Ban: Push Abbas to renew peace talks

I know that my former suggestion of relocating the Palestinians to Iran isn't going to happen. Israel needs to turn to God and seek Him in the scriptures. He will defend Israel better than the UN or any leader in Israel can. Psalm 118:8It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. 9It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

Forget the peace talks. Just move the entire Palestinians to Iran since they are not a recognized nation anyway. USA did it alot with the American Indians, one treaty after another: except this time, the UN will only have to do it once. Iran can stop wasting all that money on terrorism abroad and provide for the Palestinians in their own country instead.

Cj writes: "Acquisition of territory by war is illegal." So Jordanian control of East Jerusalem during 1949-1967 was illegal? What CJ and all the Jew-haters (like the Haaretz editorial staff) mean is: "Acquisition of territory by war BY JEWS is illegal. For anyone else does it is PERFECTLY legal" So CJ are you moving from the land your convict forefathers stole from it's rightful owners? Until you do so you ought not to criticize the Israelis. This AMERICAN citizen certainly won't ever do so.

Is this not the substance of the crisis? What the Palestinians - both Fatah and Hamas - want is a Palestine and Israel along the 1967 'green line' border. What Israel wants is everything. Once upon a time there were Israelis who mattered and who would have accepted an outcome substantially along the green line,' But over thirty years ago those Israelis were dumped into the dustbin of reality and Israelis who have no intention of allowing Judea and Samaria to be shared with Arabs won. Abbas has never had a chance, no matter how much he wished peace. The Israeli right will never allow any 'Palestinian' state within the boundaries of 'Greater Israel.' Nor, ultimately, will they allow the eventual Arab majority which will happen in the next quarter century. Mr. Abbas, and ALL arabs, in Judea and Samaria, or Israel, will just have to find somewhere else to live. Ehud Barak would be a far more sympathetic individual were he not such a perfidious and despicable man.

"Simply name any point in history where the land you mention belonged to them exclusively." - SDHD Would you be willing to exchange territory until the demographics of November 1947 were achieved? Of course not. Your glib point is noted SDHD, along with your absolute insincerity. There can be no return to that long vanished world of November 1947, Both Israelis and Palestinians will have to accept some point in time since then as their reference point for a future settlement.

What's Abbas afraid of? That he might actually reach an agreement that will end the conflict with Israel & result in the palestinians recognizing the Jewish state? He cannot expect Obama to negotiate for him. The truth is, conflict is in the PLO's best interest, not the palestinian people's. It's the only way this corrupt regime can hang on to power. That's why they keep making ridiculous demands such as making e. Jerusalem their capital & demanding the return of millions of "refugees" into Israel that they know Israel can't accept.

since he will get considerably less there is not a hope in hell that he will return to meetings !! the 90 year old bus with no wheels will continue to display signs of a destination but will never leave the depot !

Thank you, you have just confirmed than what I said was right. When a zionist has been proven wrong he just says "anti-semite". In this case you called Europe "Eurabia", (good imagination btw). Just helps to prove my point. Thank you for proving my point.

The Pals should wish in 2010 that Israel never mention the WORD PEACE. Each time the Israeli government mentions peace, it issues new building permits for the settlers at the same time or they issue permit to destroy a Palestinian home especially in East jrslm.

i dont know to which propaganda you yourself listen. however, let me clarify that already since years the palestinians dont fight any longer with stones but with rockets, among others. first of all those palestinians in gaza. and these palestinians in gaza fight although they got back ?their? land in 2005. strange, isnt it?! in my opinion there's something which is not quite logic in your twisted logic.

"They just want their land back" No problem. Simply name any point in history where the land you mention belonged to them exclusively.

and the PA is ticked.

Are you calling Hamas dove? Can you please clarify, because I am confused.

Believe me, the palestinians don't have an agenda. They only have their faith. And even if they did, they certainly and without any doubt don have the power to fulfill it. They just want their land back and they want their life back. But unfortunately i don't believe that Israel has any intention to give them their land back and if the internationnal community don't do anything, no one can save them not even themselves. You can't just compete with a fourth powerful amry in the world with stones. You also mentionned that from 1947 palestinians always refused a chance to peace and had a childish behaviour. Well you should check your information correctly. If you listen to Fox new, CNN and all that crap, you are only getting propaganda and lies.

The Palestinians have always been champions at twisting reality. the sad part is that too many leftist Israelis and Europeans believe them. The problem has never been borders but refugees. The Palestinians will not accept an agreement without the return of refugees which is tantamount to suicide for Israël.

What twaddle. Abbas is not as stupid as Netanyahu and Barak think the public is. The government of Israel has no intention of serious negotiation or even a good faith freeze while negotiations go on. See: 'Israel okays four new Jewish residences in East Jerusalem' in today's Haaretz online. Netanyahu has thrown the last chance to negotiate with Abbas away. There is not the slightest credible evidence Netanyahu wanted any serious negotiations. Or peace for that matter. His goal remains that of Likud. All of Judea and Samaria without Arabs included.

One clear issue to be negotiated are the parameters of East Jerusalem as capital of the new Palestine and West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, yet Israel insists that the Palestinians cede East jerusalem before the negotiations even begin. And they continue building in East Jerusalem all along as well as in the West Bank in contravention of their promise to the US (and the world) that they would freeze construction there. How then is it possible to negotiate in good faith with such a bad faith partner?

"Nothing in 242 says land `swap` or `negotiate`" You don't believe what the authors of the resolution say about the meaning of their own resolution? 242 says, "secure and recognized borders." How stupid do you have to be to not understand that the borders are to be negotiated?

As for the need for a trip to the psychologist, well..... why don't you begin at home. It seems to me if you are speaking of a "piece" here and one there, that that is precisely what Israel is doing as we speak, both in the WB and EJ. As for monies given to the palestinians, I think you should first investigate the far more enormous sums given to Israel which uses them to further their "piece" by "piece" strategy. It certainly is not using its fat sums of grants and loan money for "peace".

"When asked to explain the British position later, Lord Caradon said: "It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of June 4, 1967, because those positions were undesirable and artificial." Indeed. They were only armistice lines. Israel's Sovereign boundaries have not changed since May 14th 1948. No territory has ever been legally annexed to Israel.

"Amb. Goldberg explained that this phrase was specifically included because the parties were expected to make "territorial adjustments in their peace settlement.." The 'parties' were the Arab STATES. Israel for example was required to withdraw from all of Egypt's Sovereign territories in their peace agreement. "territories occupied" which have not been withdrawn from are still 'occupied'. UNSC 8 January 2009 Res 1860 Recalling all of its relevant resolutions, including resolutions 242 (1967), 338 (1973), 1397 (2002), 1515 (2003) and 1850 (2008), Stressing that the Gaza Strip constitutes an integral part of the territory occupied in 1967 and will be a part of the Palestinian state.. http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/sc9567.doc.htm

Maybe Abbas should enroll in Negotiations 101 (or equiv) at a local college in Ramallah. Israel has sized up the competition properly. Abbas and his team have not, and don't get thathey are a loud-mouthed, insolent charity case. Nobody like to give to such an entity. Ask any parent

Sorry...fresh out of empathy for the Pals. They have dug their own hole. There are no guarantees. That's why they call it negotiations. Nobody ever gets it all, and on their own terms 100%. If the Pals want peace and a nation, then they better start "negotiating". Israel can and will do this all day long, and I don't blame them. If there is to be peace, then the olive branch is being held out, better take or while the offer is still good. Hmmm...a "Peace Process": Either take it or leave it, but quit complaining.

Both Israeli and Palestinian extremists seem to think it is in their self interest to a) escalate the 'terror war' and b) delay reaching any true settlement. "When two tigers fight, one is killed and one is injured". The continuing development of "backyard" military technology and devices does not bode well for "which tiger will Israel be".

The PA never wanted peace and will never do any effort do arrive to one. The only thing they do is just doing a lot of theatre acting to get more and more money from all kind of international organisations and the UN. The money in general don't arrive in general to the matters they were sent for, they arrive in the PA's pockets, bank accounts and arms. The PA is an umbrella organisation that inlcudes all the different fractions of the "palestinian" movement., included also Hamas and other militant groups within. I don't think anyone in the PA can even spell "Peace" and the only ... word they might know is "Piece", as in "piece of Israel", one piece at a time, which is their stated policy which no one actually remembers. Whoever believes their propaganda needs an urgent trip to a psychologist and probably

I didn't say it was in the Resolution itself. I stated the authors of that resolution stated their ideas publicly and are on the record as saying what they meant. "When asked to explain the British position later, Lord Caradon said: "It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of June 4, 1967, because those positions were undesirable and artificial." "Similarly, Amb. Goldberg explained: "The notable omissions-which were not accidental-in regard to withdrawal are the words 'the' or 'all' and 'the June 5, 1967 lines'....the resolution speaks of withdrawal from occupied territories without defining the extent of withdrawal." also this: "Amb. Goldberg explained that this phrase was specifically included because the parties were expected to make "territorial adjustments in their peace settlement encompassing less than a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied territories, inasmuch as Israel's prior frontiers had proved to be notably insecure."

make no mistake, the biggest impediment to peace is obama and his handling of the whole process...it's been a miserable failure BECAUSE he threw in his lot with the arabs and surprise of suprises, they used him and subverted his best intentions..saying he was foolish and naive is an understatement. His speech in cairo was a canard and his no settlement growth edict was a trainwreck waiting to happen. why when there WILL be landswaps in any final deal is natural growth unnacceptable? sooo naive...fact is, israelis see obama for EXACTLY what he is..and that is, no friend of the jews. his record and history, his associations all prove this. khalidi, said, brzezhinski, wright, jackson, malley, the irish bitch robinson, power, freeman, carter and more...a lot more..all the signs were there...

....and the Meretz party is definitely the only significant party left in Israel, that can be called left. (sorry for the little pun...:)

Terrorism comes in many forms. Taking peoples' land and eroding their homeland is just another form. It is merely an attempt by Israel to continue to strike fear into the hearts of the Palestinians; erode the potential for a viable Palestinian state; and establish facts on the ground as a precondition for negotiations. True peace demands justice as a partner. As long as settlement construction continues in East Jerusalem, Israel's efforts towards peace are suspect. Israel is demonstrating its vicious control over the Palestinians. There is all the more reason for Abbas to be wary of Netanyahu and instead seek the support of strong nations that will sponsor and assist Palestine in receiving fair treatment in any negotiations.

Just like Pakistan blaming India for refusing to continue time-wasting (Pakistan's army, which controls the country's government, NEVER wants peace with India) "peace-talks", Abbas (PLO's basic foundation from get-go is refusal to recognise Israel as nation AT ALL) blames Israel for PA's (whether you take as Hamass or Fatah, neither wishes peace--though Fatah pretends to, while Hamass doesn't bother) own perpetual intransigence!

are still "occupied". Logic 101. "The only precondition Israel wants is no precondition." Except illegal annexation, illegal settlements. " the authors of Res. 242 expressly stated that they expected Israel to retain some of the land conquered in the 67 war" Res 242 doesn't mention it. http://wp.me/PDB7k-6r "..wanted the parties involved to negotiate the land swap." Nothing in 242 says land 'swap' or 'negotiate' "the myth of "Acquisition of territory by war is illegal" based on 242 is just that" Strange, it's the 2nd item in the preamble of UNSC res 242 Reminding the parties of the LAW! //Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war//

"The Jews in Israel are like your Aboriginal People in Australia." The Aboriginals have actual unbroken testament showing their ties to the land, going back 45,000 years. We Jewish folk, Christians and Muslims are newbies...... "They are the True Owners of the lands. British hords came to Australia and changed everything" One of the reasons there are laws against colonization by war. BTW where are the UNSC resolutions against Australia. "Your Falestinian friends.." Uh? Name my Palestinian friends...thx "came to our Eretz Israel as similar wild hords.." The bible tells us that early Jewish ancestors came to the region and took it by war. Archaeology has confirmed the fact. "Before Australia and England and your Falestinians and yourself (and even your Aboriginals!) there was Israel" Twaddle... 45,000 - 3,000 = 42,000 "Israel IS REAL!" Israel has Sovereign territories. Declared on May 14th 1948. http://wp.me/PDB7k-Y No territory has ever been legally annexed to Israel

tell me, what has swiss (dino) to do with the israeli voters? why should swiss (dino) be allowed to criticize israel although he belongs (according to you) to a country which has nothing to do with the conflict? if he is allowed to criticize nevertheless (and he is), it should be allowed to criticize him, too. btw: in the israeli citizen's response i cannot see anything that labels swiss (dino) as an antisemite. so, actually it's you yourself who brings up this topic. and that's really strange, what means, it says a lot about you. furthermore: why should nobody be allowed to point out that other countries are doing worse things than israel without that they are criticized in the same strong way as israel? that's simply a fact. are you against facts?

The only precondition Israel wants is no precondition. After all it is the Palestinians that are whining about, Jerusalem, 2 years deadlines, settlement freezes, letters from the U.S. with guarantees, etc., so it seems the Pals are ones wanting preconditions. Cj writes:"Acquisition of territory by war is illegal." No it isn't, in fact the authors of Res. 242 expressly stated that they expected Israel to retain some of the land conquered in the 67 war. That did not want the UN to impose any agreement but wanted the parties involved to negotiate the land swap. The author's fully expected Israel to retain some of the land for security. So the myth of "Acquisition of territory by war is illegal" based on 242 is just that, a myth. It is not what the authors of that resolution intended the record is clear on that point. After all if they(authors of 242) expected Israel to retain some of the land it is impossible to say it's illegal.

as usual you dont understand things correctly. i dont agree with you. and after israel's withdrawals from egypt, lebanon, gaza and parts of the westbank during the last years, i cannot really see an expansion of israel. but i see the stubbornness of the palestinians who each time when they get the opportunity to get their own state, mess it up. but instead of blaming themselves for their childish behaviour they blame -like you- israel.

Israel states that the Roadmap does not apply to future negotiations. Israel has declared that East Jerusalem is not negotiable and has initiated a frantic building strategy there. Israel is continuing to build in areas it promised to freeze. It lied. It has announced that it has no intention of returning its large settlement blocs thus making a contiguous palestinian state impossible. So? This is an indication of the palestinians hardening their position??

part of the problem????. And as Israel is far more powerful and is much more likely to and is carrying out its wishes the Palestinian hope of destroying Israel is pure hype. So scally wag---what you gonna do to get Israel to stop it,s expansion, which you now admit is a problem????. Wel done on the improvement in your undertsanding of the corp issues behind this conflict.

this has been said about menachem begin, too. and yet he made peace with egypt. btw: the words of the egyptian general could be interpreted like this: the arabs dont want peace, therefore they are on high alert when israel speaks about peace...

If Abbas can't make peace with Hamas and Hamas doesn't accept Israel, what is the point of talks?

CJ, The Jews in Israel are like your Aboriginal People in Australia. They are the True Owners of the lands. British hords came to Australia and changed everything. Your Falestinian friends came to our Eretz Israel as similar wild hords and are now dreaming (in Technicolor and Cinemascope) of claiming that they are the Aboriginal People of Eretz Israel. Before Australia and England and your Falestinians and yourself (and even your Aboriginals!) there was Israel. During Australia and England and your Falestinians and yourself (and even your Aboriginals!) there is ISrael. After Australia and England and your Falestinians and yourself (and even your Aboriginals!) there will be ISrael. Israel IS REAL!

Prey tell, Mr. Israeli Citizen - what exactly have mosques in Switzerland got to do with subject issue? When will you guys refrain from using the usual pathetic diversional tactics: - Criticise countries that have absolutely nothing to do with the conflict in question - Label those who object to Israel's criminal behaviour as anti-semites - Point out that some countries have done or are doing worse things than Israel. It has stopped working, you know.

How did the Palestinians cheat?

they would impose the same restrictions on construction materials entering the west bank as they do to Palestinians trying to leave the west bank or gaza. Peace with a Palestinian archipelago state is not the goal... it's "greater" Israel... always has been. If the Palestinians were smart, they would follow the lead of the Albanians in Kosovo... just declare a state and have the UN displace the IDF.

So instead of pulling back to the Green Line as he's been told to by every ally, institution and court, Netanyahu is instead pushing for 40% of Palestine. And he wants to keep E J'sem too. 40% is a complete joke, there'd be nothing left of Palestine but a cluster of isolated bantustans. And this when Israel has no legal claim or right to one dunam of the land! That rules out any talks at all and puts the ball squarely in the hands of the international community. Let's see what Obama, the EU and UN think of this latest example of Israeli 'co-operation' and 'generosity'. Netanyahu is a complete kleptomaniac. And he has the gall to lie glibly to the camera and claim Israel has no preconditions! Each time one thinks Israel's reputation surely can't sink any lower, the GOI proves us wrong.

It is good news that Abbas is failing. The is the light at the end of the tunnel for us, he was the most lovey-dovey with the Israel. We did he get in return ?

The change in atmosphere is happening in Europe. Foreign minister remarks, then the text adopted by the EU, news articles, Euro News images (specially the No Comments one where we see Palestinian homes being bulldozed, Europeans don't like seing homes destroyed) Come listen to the talks about Israel in my university, some conferences even given by Jewish students! The talks about apartheid are not only in your newspapers. They are in our newspapers aswell, and Israelis are not here to cry "anti-semitism" for each article. There is a change in atmosphere. Europeans in general have now understood Israel's game. People here do not believe that Israel is honestly seeking peace. Israel was voted #1 of states most dangerous to world peace by europeans. It wasn't Iran and "their missiles that could threaten Europe", it was Israel. You are loosing the support of half the democratic developped world. Are you counting on China or Russia to take our place in supporting you?

saeb erekat and all palestinians must insist on negotiations based on the 1967 borders, in accordance with the road map plan.

... that Israel is interested in peace with its neighbors... ... buying-time to put down more facts-on-the-ground seems to be the prime concern of Bibi et al...

It's an obligation ' of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law'. Peace talks or not Israeli settlements in non-Israeli territories are illegal. Acquisition of territory by war is illegal. Unilateral annexation is illegal. No one has forced Israel to act outside the law.

Ever since Netanyahu and Lieberman took office it has been confirmed that there will be no peace in the next decade. We know both of them only dream about expulsing and "hiding" the arabs from the jewish population. As an old Egyptian Army General once said: "When Israel says 'Peace' we are put on high alert"

... "... the impression... a change-of-atmosphere... maturation that would enable... etc etc etc..." ... where is the 'tachles'... something meaningful?... ...in short, gornisht...

Talks enable Israel to continue expansion and the removal of any reality to a Palestinian state. What will be left to the Palestinians will be Bantustans. Any 'state' will only be a subject province of Greater Israel. Israeli settlements in occupied Palestine are there to permanently control Palestinians. The USA and Israel will see to that with the connivance of Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Israeli officials have been playing the same old games for yrs to avoid making the necessary land concession and what a joke they want no preconitions! In 2004 fourteen justices ruled ruled unan- mously in The Hague Israel must withdraw its forces to the 1967 Green Line and void all it structures in the Palestinian territories. It is beyond time for Palestinian officials to engage in their lawlessness and if they keep this up they won't have a state. Today, people are on the Palestinian peoples' side not the Israelis....No sir, not at all! Dutch

The Palestinians and other Arabs are looking to show their people the achievements they have attained without accepting Israel as a Jewish majority state.They want to tell their people what they have attained for now (freezes,withdrawals,a state) and how they will finish Israel off in the future.They want to threaten the USA and Israel that if they don't offer up the concessions then the USA and Israel will have to deal with the Arab radicals instead.Abbas and the Arab leaders are offering nothing and that's what they should get in return.

do we have to hear the same old song from you -which we heard already in 2009- also in 2010? come on, martin. it's a new year. play a different song than this boring one of israelis having to vote a new government. as far as it's known, israelis voted already for left-wing governments in the past - without getting peace. doesnt this make you think about?

the palestinians' agenda seems to be: greater palestine!

perhaps first you should think about: what's the palestinians' agenda?

from 1947 on the arabs/palestinians always found excuses not to take responsibility into their own hands by taking seriously into consideration the founding of an own state of "palestine". it's always the others (i. e. israel) who are the guilty ones that there's no palestinian state yet, but never they themselves. what a childish behaviour. i wonder when the time will come that the palestinians get adults and act like adults.

Nothing has changed to merit restarting talks and we cannot reward terrorist by entertaining the demands of the PLO and Hamas.

"Wow it`s really all cinema, Hollywood! Israel is acting like she wants to make peace by presenting yet another super great plan i guess and i`m sure she will end up by saying that the palistanians wasted another chance for peace. But what she doesnt say it`s that the proposed plan is suicidal. It makes me wonder what exactly is israel agenda?" twisted logic. Israel wants to be "The Greater Israel". And bringing peace "Talks" to a close would represent an end to the expansion policy that Israel has been carrying out for 40+ years. That sir/Madam is Israel,s agenda. Very simple really. Just Google the Likud charter and see for yourself. Regards

This is worse than bad theater.

.....that simply won't lead anywhere. Either the Israeli citizens will finally become a little bit smarter, and vote next time a governement into office, that is serious and honest about a just peace, or they free Marwan Barghouti, and allow him to take Abbas' post. In absence of one of those 2 steps, there will be no (successful) negotiations in the future. You can take that for granted.

Wow it's really all cinema, Hollywood! Israel is acting like she wants to make peace by presenting yet another super great plan i guess and i'm sure she will end up by saying that the palistanians wasted another chance for peace. But what she doesnt say it's that the proposed plan is suicidal. It makes me wonder what exactly is israel agenda?

to collapse! Do not save him!

Isn't this 'wonderfull news? Isn't this a "good news day? A day to be 'thankfull for! His Majesty Abbas climbes (maybe) down from his thrown and is willing (maybe) to talk. How did Lieberman put it: "STOP groveling" it's discusting.