Barak: Goldstone report 'false, distorted, and irresponsible'

You have a point. If Israel withdraws from the West Bank, removes the security wall, cedes E. Jerusalem, and permits the establishment of a sovereign Palestinian state in the occupied territories, and then imposes a genocidal blockade on the new Palestinian state as it did in Gaza, the Palestinians will attack Israel, as would any sane rational people. Gaza is not a sovereign, independent state. Israel will complete its withdrawal from Lebanon when it leaves Shabaa Farms.

I'll let you worry about my psychosis, but I do worry about your delusions of grandeur. Your Neville Chamberlain approach to this issue will fail and for the same reasons. Peace comes from a mans heart not a piece of paper. The main obstacle to peace is the deep seated hatred taught to Palestinian children as illustrated with the tombstones used as urinal floors. You state "If you think the Palestinians would jeopardize that sovereignty by launching an attack on Israel, you must be psychotic". Yet when Israel left Gaza (2005) the people elected Hamas into their government, and Gaza became a launching pad for attacks on Israel which led to war. The same was true in Lebanon, when Israel withdrew from the buffer zone the land was used to renew attacks on Israel which again led to war. So pardon me if I disagree with your assessment of the situation, recent history proves your theories wrong. When given a chance for peace in Gaza the Pals bought and built weapons instead of houses.

My argument falls on its face because prior to 1967 there were no settlements, E Jerusalem was under Jordan, and there was no security wall? Try to stay on the subject. My argument has nothing to do with those points, My argument is about Israeli settlements, annexation of Jerusalem, and the security wall having been built by Israelis. Prior to 1967 the Jordanians occupied all the territory Israel occupied in 1967 (Egypt in Gaza). But now we are talking about peace with Palestinians, not Jordan. What the Jordanians did during that period is irrelevant. The Palestinians could not have had a country when the Arabs rejected the opportunity. They had no say in the matter. But now, if the Israelis conform to international law, Israel can have peace with a sovereign Palestinian state on its border, If you think the Palestinians would jeopardize that sovereignty by launching an attack on Israel, you must be psychotic. Take your medicine regularly.

Ron: "But if Israel removed its settlements, moved the separation wall to Israel, ceded E. Jerusalem" This old and tired excuse falls flat. Prior to 1967 there were NO settlements, East J. was under Jordanian control, and no separation Fence existed. Yet things were much the same, Arabs attacked Israel and terrorist attacks were commonplace. So save the BS. The Jordanians restricted E.J. access, under Israeli rule all religions have access to their religious sites. Under Israeli rule unlike the Jordanians who desecrated Jewish cemeteries...using tombstones as floor panels under the urinals in the public restrooms...religious sites are respected. The Arabs could have had a country long ago, they chose war and lost. After the loss they choose terrorism, you would remove the consequences of their choice, or worse, we should feel bad because after trying to kill Jews for last 100 years Israel treats them differently, Duh!

It is you that misses the point! Why is it you never mention Hamas and their clear violations? As with the infamous Resolution 3379 Zionism is racism Resolution, the only UN resolution i history to be revoked(in 1991). The sponsors the the above resolution ( Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Cuba, Dahomey, Egypt, Guinea, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, North Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Yemen, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, and the United Arab Emirates) as can be seen were mostly Muslim countries. So the clear UN bias...being controlled by Muslim countries 57 of 192 countries...can always get a resolution or investigation going. Pointing out that fact isn't going "make Israel innocent?" As you put. It is important as a form of context for the situation. The one-sided nature of your...and people like you...selective outrage and hollow indignation. It also calls into question any so called investigation by the UN and its neutrality.

International Jewry spends much of its intellect scouring world history to find what it considers moral equivalents to justify to itself, and to the world, Israeli human rights violations in its treatment of the Palestinian population during the 42 years of its harsh, humiliating occupation of Palestinian territory. We hear a constant drumbeat of we Jews have known 2000 years of anti-semitism, the world is turning against Israel because of anti-semitism, oil money controls the UN, Muslim nations control the UN, and the list of all the reasons why the world hates Jews is longer than this cite permits. But if Israel removed its settlements, moved the separation wall to Israel, ceded E. Jerusalem, and assisted the establishment of a independent sovereign Palestinian state, Israels international enemies would go away, and Israel could become just another member of the international community in good standing. The idea of a Palestinian independent state attacking Israel is absurd.

International Jewry spends much of its intellect scouring world history to find what it considers moral equivalents to justify to itself, and to the world, Israeli human rights violations in its treatment of the Palestinian population during the 42 years of its harsh, humiliating occupation of Palestinian territory. We hear a constant drumbeat of "we Jews have known 2000 years of anti-semitism," "the world is turning against Israel because of anti-semitism," "oil money controls the UN," "Muslim nations control the UN," and the list of all the reasons why the world hates Jews is longer than this cite permits. But if Israel removed its settlements, moved the separation wall to Israel, ceded E. Jerusalem, and assisted the establishment of a independent sovereign Palestinian state, Israel's international enemies would go away, and Israel could become just another member of the international community in good standing. The idea of a Palestinian independent state attacking Israel is absurd.

just throw him in jail instead quit wasting time and money

Barak declares: "All of the soldiers and officers whom we sent to battle need to know that the state of Israel stands behind them even on the day after." OK, that's fine, who would not agree to that...? But that is not Judge Goldstone's role, who was conferred with a mission, as a sort of international referee, concerned mainly with preserving a modicum of 'fair-play' even in war. He found that there had been serious lapses in that 'modicum' in the battles of Caste Lead, and that most of the lapses were on the more powerful Israeli side. Why are we denying the obvious and condemning the Judge so roundly?

...we are concerned with Gaza here, not the numerous countries you mentioned. If Israel is proved to have committed war crimes in Gaza, does it make any difference if others have also? Does that somehow make Israel innocent?

The Goldstone report clearly condemned both sides of the war and asked both sides to investigate and report. If the Palestinians, who have endorsed Goldstone, do not fulfill their side of the investigation, will the Hague try them?

contrary to the palestinians israel abided -among others- to the un-timetable of 1947/1948 and founded on time its state suggested by the un!

which massacre? did i miss something? btw: what about the american soldiers in irak and elsewhere?

..what gives Dan? It was the Israeli militarythat did a lot of damage in Gaza..no one else...

You are welcome to check the UN and UNSC websites. You may find some things of interest. You may even find that the Israeli government has requested some things I am unaware of. Good luck with your search. Investigations of P5 countries actions are rare. Nobody seems to want to piss them off too much.

indeed none of these other far more heinous acts of barbarity were even considered for referrals, and boycotts, and rallies, divestments etc... This IS outright manipulation of the UN by the muslim block of countries... I for one believe israel should bring forward complaints to the UN of all of these other countries involved in these sad massacres, including the US "IF" they sell out israel in the UN...if they want a fight, they can get one.

YES--a lot MORE "innocent civilians" died on the roads of both Jordan and Egypt in traffic fatalities than the paltry 1400 Pals offed in Cast Lead...Should the U.N. be charging Jordan 34.2 traffic deaths per 100,000 population (so over 2000 deaths from traffic accidents) or Egypt (41.6 traffic deaths per 100,000 of population) so over 34,500 traffic deaths per year with Negligent Crimes Against Humanity for this epidemic of innocent lives lost due to their wanton lack of public education of drivers,poor road mainrtenance and terrible policing of speed limits? I mean where is the MORAL OUTRAGE? FYI U.N.--THe IDF was in a WAR with the GAZA government AND ITS PEOPLE who allow succor and PROMOTE rocketing eforts from Gaza into Israel.. ITS WAR STUPID--people gonna die..ITS logical,natural and expected...but NO BIG DEAL compared to U.N. negligence in trying to stop TRAFIC FATALITIES of "Innocent" civilians.

I agree, but I think you got the timeline wrong: It will be banned from London by 2020, they year Sharia will be introduced (as suggested by the good Archbishop of yours).

so you are saying it is ok to kill 1400 in Gaza because china killed a million in Tibet?? A crime is a crime whether you have a justification for it or not or whether another crime was punished or not.

indeed none of these other far more heinous acts of barbarity were even considered for referrals, and boycotts, and rallies, divestments etc... This IS outright manipulation of the UN by the muslim block of countries... I for one believe israel should bring forward complaints to the UN of all of these other countries involved in these sad massacres, including the US "IF" they sell out israel in the UN...if they want a fight, they can get one.

The article clearly states in the 2nd paragraph that the general assembly set the deadline for the Report. The g.a. is not known for voting much, if at all, in Israel's favor(take note, Mark of Lewiston). The bill(s)for same,presumably, are paid for by member states.

Mark don't make us out to be naive such as yourself. The mere fact an inquiry or request for an investigation for the events Dan listed was never ordered raises questions as to the merit of the Goldstone report. One can only surmise there are sinister motives behind this reckless investigation. What this tells us is that Israel and jews are being held to a different standard from the rest of the world. You state "The UN doesn`t do reports without member states requesting them" Sure will China request an investigation on Tibet, will any Arab request an investigation on her neighbors? Heaven forbid no. Fact of the matter is the UN security councel including China is stacked with nations who have committed some of the worst crimes in history. Yet when Israel launches a 3 weeks anti terror assault on Gaza the whole world now is up and arms as if the world came to an end. The truth is you and your ilk moral hypocrits.

Another delluded poster speaking on behalf of the World. The Iraq Inquiry is today interviewing Tony Blair here in London while outside a gathering of 150 protestors shout for his imprisonment. The "World" as you put it has already forgotten it, just as they have forgotten the Genocide of the Native Americans on whose land you are now dwelling.

It is pathetic when you attempt ot use the excuse of what others did, or did not do, to justify your actions. Killing civilians cannot be justified by pointing out that others killed more.That is both intellectually dishonest and morally repugnant. Should a murderer be excused because another murderer killed more?

It is the responsability of the United Nations investigate crimes against humanity anywhere in the world or only if requested by interested parties?? If yes close it, has happen already with the faulty League of Nations!

No reports Dan because no Jews, Israelis or Zionists to blame for Darfur, Tibet, Cheynya, Afganistan, Rwanda, Hama, Iraq, Bosnia, and other less well publicized atrocities.

Not the point and you know it. The fact is if it is a central Israeli defence to the Goldstone Report that it is not fair, because there are othe countries who are doing worse than what we did during Operation Cast Lead. I doubt it will stand up to scrutiny in The Hague. Besides why point the finger now? Surely as a light unto nations Israel should have been front line and centre demanding enquiries. Not now when it suits them.

As far as you are concerned, Israel is quite OK, because she isn't treating anyone worse than China and Russia do. Some people who love Israel would like her to aim a bit higher.

They will distract you but they will not answer you.

Israel abiding by a UN timetable. That little paragraph enabling the same sanctions as happened to South Africa during the Apartheid years must be concentrating minds in Tel Aviv. There is a chance that Israel will be banned from London in 2012

If not today, nor tomorrow, it will be sooner rather than later. Like other war criminals of the past, those IDF troops responsible for this massacre will face justice in the near future. The world will never forget Gaza.

In the medical world when your in triage you treat the worst to first scenario. Treating the patient who is most ill and likely to die quickly without attention and treatment. As Dan points out there have been far worse crisis's around the world deeply affecting many more people, but Israel gets singled out more than any other country. It begs the question, Why? The UN has 57 Muslim countries of the 192 member countries and put simply they gang up on Israel in an attempt to falsely stigmatize the country, and attack it legitimacy. Dan proves this point clearly with his posts.

(That's how it's spelled. ladies and gentlement - not "hypocracy", which perhaps indicates some sort of sub-dermal regime.). To the point: Dan has pointed out that Israel is being judged by standards that no other country in the world is judged by. The reasons for this seem to be fairly clear. Leaving aside the question of Jew-hatred for the moment, one can suggest that all the atrocities pointed out by Dan were committed by the US, itw allies, NATO, other big and powerful states (Russia and China), or by Muslim Arab States, whose n8merous populations and oil reserves make them worthy of noli me tangere.

Israel didn't have to ask for UN investigation of the atrocities mentioned by Dan, nor does it have to fund them. The fact that thet the UN itself, or the UN Human Rights Commission, didn't initiate an investigation of all these atrocities indicates that Israel is being judged by a double standard, a standard not applied to other countries that are either much bigger and stronger than Israel or Arab or Muslim.

He cannot complain if allegations of War Crimes made against Israel are investugates. Afterall he is the President of Israel Or is that different?

DNB: "Hamas claims 1400 deaths,probably 90% combatants-roughly 1260." Our weasel-word for today is "probably". The correct phrase is "Hamas claims 1400 deaths, Israel insists that 90% were combatants". The only problem: Israel has come up with that claim, but they haven't explained how they arrived at it. The Palestinian sources come up with a quite different statistic, but with the important difference that they *have* released a name to go with each fatality i.e. their list is verifiable, while the Israeli list is not.

"Where is the deadline for Tibet" They have a veto vote "Where is the deadline for NATO Afganistan" The UK and US have a veto vote & who is asking for one? Wasn't Israel in favour of the invasion? " Where is the deadline for Chchnia" The UK and US have a veto vote & who is asking for one? "Where is the deadline for Hama, Syria" Please elucidate... "Where is the deadline US/UK Iraq report" The UK and US have a veto vote & who is asking for one? Wasn't Israel in favour of the invasion? "Where is the deadline NATO Belgrade bombing" Who's asking for one? "Where is the deadline for Pal murder of Pal" Internal affair, the UN cannot interfere unless asked "Where is the deadline for Darfur" Internal affair. The UN cannot interfere unless asked

Thus, don't expect the UN General Assembly to ever produce a fair and balanced report about Israel, because it ain't going to happen. Thus, Israel, the US and the rest of the world should pay no attention to any report that comes out to the Arab-dominated General Assembly.

If yes, Dan's questions are very interesting. If not, Dan's questions are even more interesting.

These reports (noted by Dan) should be funded by the UN Human Rights Council as they funded the Goldstone Report. Israel should actually ask for them but we know where that request will go, so don't be so hypocritical.

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The UN doesn't do reports without member states requesting them. When did Israel ask for all these reports you're asking for? Is Israel willing to fund these other reports?

Hamas claims 1400 deaths,probably 90% combatants-roughly 1260.This death rate amongst it's combatants compared to Israel's is roughly 420 of theirs to 1 Israeli,the other Israeli soldiers were killed by friendly fire about 7 or 8.No wonder Hamas claims they were civilians,the humiliation of loseing 420 to 1 Israeli is a disaster.

Goldstone the untrained bloodhound incredulously missed this odorous smell as he trotted through his hand-held, Hamas-guided tour through Gaza. If he'd have taken the time to learn of the Charter's existence and read it, Hamas' ludicrous assertion that they never intentionally fired on Israeli civilians would have made perfectly good sense, as does the rest of their logic for instigating incessant acts of war against Israel in their minds.

Goldstone lacks intellectual honesty. Took the job out of self-indulgance. See honesty - meet Gene Sharp. He can be read on www.aeinstein.org Palestine reference cab be read in his Progressive interview: http://www.progressive.org/mag/intv0307 "But Fatah leaders had this faith in the religion of violence. It was absolutely the worst thing they could have done."

WE can not however forget the long term attacks on Israeli soil as well. WE need to rethink. During the war times in South Africa a farmer may acclimate his eternal damages within a time frame. As a judge you may need to look at individual property rights. As we realign for one nation we need to think as we have been who split us into a mulitnational unit. Israel did not give up its rights as a national unit. We did ask United Nations for neutrality before the worlds eyes without loss of royal standing. We have heard Clinton personally say how she wanted to destroy the royal family and build a senater and congress. I am concerned about other royal standing families as we give our all for our nations we protect. We chose a couple of the royals who are pretty to be targets for media and assassins and the rest really keep low profile while learning and protecting our people. Let them be the beauty while we save lives. Rankoo-Karoon