B'Tselem: IDF may have executed unarmed Palestinian militants

Conjecture just confuses. Let the IDF conduct an investigation so we all can find out what really happened. And who knows its findings may not nauseate the international community as much as the findings of all its other investigations.

Anyone who accuses Israel of anything gets automatic credence. If they were unarmed, how did IDF troops obtain the exact weapon that was used to kill Chai?

The problem with your fact,. O Great One, is that two of them didn't have weapons and didn't refuse orders to come out. Could it be that some who have been there (unlike me, who hasn't - wherever there is) automatically rush to defend Israel without reference to whether it actually did what it was charged with?

After this, don't bother me again The fact that they had weapons in their possession showed they had intended to use them Nobody carries a gun just for the hell of it They refused orders to come out knowing full well what acttions would be taken Some of us have been there, others like yourself haven't and never will

They weren't going anywhere and were no danger to anyone outside the house. Shot while resisting arrest in this instance is the same as the classical shot while attempting to flee (a very lame excuse).

IT IS RIGHT TO KILL THREE TERRORISTS WHO ASSAINED ONE MAN FATHER OF SEVEN CHILDREN.

"No trial, no proper criminal probe" What don't you understand about short while "Resisting Arrest"? All they had to do is surrender their weapons and give up One bugger was hiding in a crawl space Another had two pistols and two rifles in his possession

Palestinian's don't have any catching up to do, they're way ahead, they started it You should be over there holding their hand, surely you remember the promise?

Just a thought - these guys weren't going anywhere, and they could do no harm as long as they were confined to that house. What was the need to kill them instead of waiting them out? You can't sweat information about terrorist groups and their plans from dead men.

B`Tselem should realize that the terrorists relatives will tell what they wnat to be said, which is more than likely not to be the truth. Ultimately they did not give up and come out as their relatives did and considering everything about their past the shootings were justified. They also may have wanted to be in similar to shooting by cop analagies to make themselves martyrs.

"How do you think natives should deal with YOU Silvienne" What natives?

"The Americans are killing people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq without trial" America, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq are not at issue here. We are discussing the effects of a forty year occupation of the West Bank by Israel.

"Why do you consistently disregard the extra-judicial nature of Arab terror against Israeli and Western targets?" Israel maintains an illegal occupation of the West Bank; resistance is therefore lawful.

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." - This is the final line from the 1973 film "Chinatown", which was so brilliantly directed by Roman Polanski. If you don't understand it's significance to what the IDF is suspected of having done, watch the movie or read the Oscar-winning screenplay which is available on the internet.

please couldn`t someone respond-is there any difference between killings legal or illegal?between bad guys and good? -Yakov My answer: To me, no difference. Killing is killing IS killing.

When your democratic republic behaves in a way that is morally comparable to the desparate terrorist rabble that is al Aqsa Brigades, you have lost the high ground. At least Fatah doesn't have all the pretense of justice and modernity when it acts.

3 terrorists are dead! We do know they "will" not as opposed to "may" not kill anyone ever again. As to whether Israel violated any procedures in surrounding the house and killing the suspects because they refused to surrender. Who knows? The Pal witnesses simply can't be trusted as an unbiased source and most critics of Israel never believe anything Israel says anyway! So it will remain open to the writers bias as to what happened. Anti-Israel writers will cry foul and Pro-Israel writers will say justifiable action. So this case is closed for all practical purposes. Verdict: unresolved.

Dr. Brnd, I suppose it was perfectly "OK" for the Israelis to bomb and gun the helpless USS Liberty, because it "refused to surrender." Also count Bernadotte did not give up and thus was murdered? And Ms. Currie in front of the bulldozer just would not surrender? There is a contagious sort of paranoia that has overtaken the Israelis and their supporters that does not bode well for a so-called "democracy." Your hubris is alarming to the world. As far as B'Tselm is concerned, by your logic, AIPAC, which you no doubt support, should be declared an enemy of the US and ordered to disband or go to Israel.

Exactly. That is the way to do it.

Israeli's Trial by Jury. Kill unarmed suspects. The county has become a moral cesspool.

The IDF is one army that should lose its license to operate.... killing unarmed people, targeting civilians in their homes, mosques and schools, refusing medical teams access to the wounded and dead and indeed humanitarian aid caught in the crossfire , disregarding international symbols of peace such as the white flag. All its blatant violations are there--let's not forget excessive and criminal use of disproportionate force in violaton of the UN Charter and Security Council Resolution, the 4th Geneva Conventions and international human rights.... Israelis should hang their heads in shame today with their "moral army" They are a shame to the free and moral world today as is their state and leadership. Dutch

The Torah says man was made Btselem Elo-him", in Go-d's image. However, the terrorists randomly destroyed one such creature, the rabbi Hai. If we keep to the Biblical narrative, the terrorists the moemnt they pulled the trigger, have given up their right to live. Nevertheless, the IDF called onthem to surrender, and they didnt. So both in Bible law, and in international law, this operation was perfectly legitimate.

Good work IDF. The rabbi was assassinated and the IDF responded. Times have changed. No longer will Jews be attacked randomly. The perpetrators will be hunted and given their dues. Ignore B'tselem and their woolly thinking. Case closed.

The fact that the guy didn't surrender puts in doubt the account that he was unarmed. The only eyewitness source that says they were unarmed are the relatives. There were weapons in found each house. No police force anywhere in the western world will enter a house where they know a murderer has weapons, they shoot the guy through the windows, not wait until he falls asleep. Good work IDF you quickly tracked down all the murderers of the Rabbi.

The evidence had been collected, intelligence provided by PA proved these were the perpetrators. They were not suspects, and refusing to cooperate during apprehension resulted in their death. For instance, in the US where judicial executions take place, the prisoner is not fitted with an assault rifle before he is led to lethal injection. In this case, weapons were known to be present and the threat was eliminated from a safe distance. Would a bloody shoot out have satisfied the critics?!

"How would you deal with illegal settlers?" How do you think natives should deal with YOU Silvienne.

arrested? Settlers who attack Pals some have been arrested jailed fined,some not,that's how police work,as you should be well aware. Security intelligence is a different story. Assaulting/abusing Jews in Britain is criticism of Israel right?

"World is much safer place without that scum who targets unarmed civilians..." I agree with you if you're referring to the IDF killing women and children in Gaza... BTW, don't you know the illegal settlers go around armed with M-16s??

They were killed just because they were suspected! What a shame! At least if they were armed or constituted a threat , one can think it's a self-defense matter! This in fact just stresses how coward Israel and its IDF are!

They got what they deserved. World is much safer place without that scum who targets unarmed civilians...

"Killing terrorists is the only way of dealing with them" How would you deal with illegal settlers?

What would Btzelem say if one of thier family members would of been killed from terrorist Or what would the fanatic godstone say if his family mmember would live in Ashkalon

The history shows that arrested Palestinians terrorists are later released on persoanl request of US president or in exchange for kidnapped Israelis. Killing terrorists is the only way of dealing with them.

The new methodology invented by Goldy in Gaza: to ask `family` and Hamas what happened and then, belive it or not, use it as `facts` against the IDF is carried over by bezelem. If the US used the same methdology when investigating Mafia memebers about their crimes, by now the president will be Gambini, the Congress will be populated by the Mafia families, and all the cops will be locked in jail.

I usually agree with B'Tselem when the IDF kills people uninvolved in terrorism, but what on Earth is wrong with killing people who actually are involved in terrorism? You should stop making such a big deal over actions which actually are justified.

"Why does B`Tselem RALLY for TERRORISTS?" David asks? Because the pay by the EU is pretty good. Ask the British, the Swedes, Norwegian, Belgium, Spanish and many more EU participants about the pay? All you have to do, is establish a Human Rights Group and be anti Israel, and pretty much anti-Semite and you will realize the flow of money from the EU? thats why B'Teselm cannot forgo these big bucks and be FAIR and HONEST. Their bonuses will be forgotten??

Is B'tselem insane?

seems to be good enough for Israel according to many of the respondents here....

There is no justice for Palestinians under Israeli rule. Israel no longer has any legitimate right to have any armed forces in the West Bank.

If they are captured, they eventually get released in a "prisoner swap." Better, when there is no doubt of guilt, to rid us of these murderers on the spot.

I didn't read a B'Tselem article voicing concern for the murdered man or voice anger at the terrorist act.I'm the last one to defend the settlers....I think they should all pck up and leave but B'Tselm just gets my blood boiling with their holier then though attitude and defence of the Palestinians even when they commit the most horrible acts of terror

Really? Do you remember the USS Liberty? I do.

Ministry of finance must launch an investigation into B'Tselem obscure bookeeping and funds and must reinstate Har Brakha Yeshiva funding . And The same as the left want to illegalise Adelson's right wing daily newspaper on the ground that Adelson is not Israeli , So are B'Tselem funds foreign and not Israeli . B'Tselem allegations are the same as Goldstone distorted fact finding portrayed as definitive about the mosque wich was used as weapons depot .

As the Israelis have no interest in the terms of the Road Map, the PA security forces should be disbanded. They have no authority which can not be superseded by the IDF. Ergo they have no power at all, and no reason to be but to serve the needs of the IDF.

please explain to me why Israelis would want to live in "HOSTILE TERRITORY" isn't that asking for trouble? have you even looked at a map?

David wrote: "Seems like B`Tselem likes to quickly jump the gun in placing the blame on the IDF.". B'Tselem reported observations and asked for an investigation. Learning the difference will take you to the next level David.

The Americans are killing people in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq without trial.

Earth to B'Tselem, do you think the Palestinians show any regard to Israeli civilians when they send homicide bombers to massacre Israeli civilians on buses, shopping centers, discos, pizzeria's, hotels and everywhere else then can murder Israelis. The fact B'Tselem is defening the 3 terrorists who murdered the Rabbi and didn't give him a chance shows that B'Tselem doesn't understand the mentality of the Arabs.

Why do you consistently disregard the extra-judicial nature of Arab terror against Israeli and Western targets? Doesn't such terror merit a response? Can you provide ANY evidence of terror lessening through kindness?

B'Tselem is NOT a human rights organization. If they were, they would have protested the illegal murder of the Israeli civilian. B'Tselem didn't protest. They prove again and again that they are simply a pro-Pal lobby group and just another tool in the Pal propaganda war. Palestinians go out and execute Israelis all they time. They've been doing it for decades: shootings, knifings, bombings. And B'Tselem doesn't care at all, because B'Tselem isn't a human rights organization. It should be called a human "wrongs" organization, since B'Tselem thinks that Palestinians have the right to kill Israeli civilians. They don't.

Learn some history. What you had in Sabra and Chatilla was Arabs killing Arabs, which happens every day. Not one single Israeli killed any Arab in Sabra and Chatilla. The person behind the killings was Elie Hobeika who was given refuge by Assad in Lebanon. Assad then put Hobeika in the Syrian controlled Lebanese parliament for 10 years. Hobeika's bodyguard Roger Hatem, wrote a book called from Israel to Damascus which he admits, Hobeika ordered the killings on Assad's order to make Israel look bad so Syria could control Lebanon. Why dont you look up Damour Lebanon and what the PLO did there.

One can assume that the Martyr Brigade is first and foremost calling for the fullfilment of their name. You can not be a Martyr and be alive at the same time. If you arrive from such a proud Brigade, your whole being is revolving around the wish of becoming a Martyr. Then you are entilted to receive a more rewarding place in paridise (this were Martyrs belong). Apart from that, if you live by the sword do not be surprised and then blame a sword that comes for you while proudly/militantly running around with blood on your hands...

Their killing does not really enhance your kids' security. It perpetuates a cycle of killing by feeding the desire for revenge. I sympathize with your turmoil, really do.

with the wife of one of the dead militants. She said that the soldiers showed up and they heard explosions outside and commands ordering them to exit the house (this lines up with the IDF use of crowd dispersal methods). When they opened the door the troops shot her husband and her though only wounded her, targeting her husband. Then they approached the body and shot him again. She says she asked the soldiers if his being dead wasn't enough, that they would shoot his body on the ground. The IDF admits that two of the three men were unarmed. This was a revenge operation and there was no apparent proof that these men were directly involved in the murder of the settler. It was a 'price tag' operation aimed at the Palestinian populace in general. PS - the bloodlust on these talkbacks is incredible.

"In civilized countries, like most European democracies, the police surround the house, seal off the area, bring in negotiators and wait a few hours or a few days. " Psssst.... This was HOSTILE TERRITORY, not a domestic arrest in a "civilized country." Do you think U.S. soldiers were, "arresting" the enemy in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Granada, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.?

Did IDF go after members of Martyrs Brigades to send a message or were these 3 the killers. I have mixed view, one they refused to surrender but atleast 2 were unarmed. I would like to know if IDF thought these people were the killers rather then trying to arrest them to get information on killers.

This is not the first time that the IDF has acted as judge, jury and executioner. Just check the records over the years and it will reveal many incidents such as this. There is no way that the IDF is the "most moral army in the world." Immoral would be more like it.

In that case the Palestinians have a lot of catching up to do!

Good riddence. All members of terror groups old and young should expect death and not arrest. I dont care if they were unarmed or asleep or prayer. If you are a member of a terror group then you know what to expect.

Thats complete nonsense Chet. Whatevr baseless, fabricated or exagerated figure B'tselem puts out are accepted as accurate by the world , whether or not there a dot of truth there. I suspect that an audit would reveal funding from suspect sources

it any more-for sure those soldiers went there prepared to kill those men hoping to really; anyone who's been here feels this.its just that people keep talking about how to end all this bad-when they don't even want to admit what happened in the past or how they feel now-all the people i know are happy these men were killed-im so confused killing these people does enhance my kids security but it robs me of any reason of being here amidst such terrible legal violence-please couldn't someone respond-is there any difference between killings legal or illegal?between bad guys and good?seeing what ideology does to people has made me allergic to them all but has blurred distinction between right and wrong cause i see the good guys doing so much wrong and the bad guys willing to give up everything in what seems a struggle weighted strongly against them but maybe its god that i just don't understand maybe its myself in question.

This is a "senior officer" who tell us that the wife was a threat to the troops!!! Another "senior officer" is telling us that they knew the men were unarmed, but they still posed a threat!!!!! Simply - you executed them!! Shame on you, "seniors", shame on all responsible for this!

Israel has a perfect legal right to apply deadly force when adversary troops refuse an order to surrender, no different than a battlefield situation. Does B'Tselem think US forces firing drone missiles at Taliban or Al Qaida in Pak or Afgan check to see if they have weapons in their hands - or even give them a chance to surrender first? israel has exactly the same right. Absent direct objective evidence for their allegations, B'Tselem thugs have no legal leg to stand on - hearsay from other terrorists is not "evidence" of what Israel "may have" done, and shooting enemy troops not actually holding their weapons in a combat situation is far from an "execution". Any army is allowed to do that, especially if they refuse to surrender, which they did. B'Tselem attacks on IDF mark it as a terrorist organization itself, should be banned for aiding and abeting. Because it does not also oppose Arab killings of Israelis, it is not a valid tax-exempt NGO, should be barred from its EU funding.

Extrajudicial killing was of Meir thats level Pals operate and have done so for hundreds of years in Palestine to Jews and each other. The IDF called on them to surrender is that what was done to Meir?

why were the Palestinian security forces not allowed to arrest the suspects? how did the IDF 'find' the suspects so quickly? this seems like a blatant execution..eye 4 an eye biblical justice...

Israel must decide if it is a legitimate state with the rule of law or not! State employees, whether police, army or intelligence services are not above the law and cannot be allowed to think that they are. As "B" pointed out, next time it could be Jews, perhaps settlers or ultra-orthodox SUSPECTED of being involved in an incident who are shot dead for ALLEGEDLY not complying with security forces. Will the public remain silent in such a situation or is it only Arabs who can be shot dead?

Palestinians who in spite of being unarmed shot him to death in what may be a case of self defense." B"H

This would never happen. The IDF would never shoot first and ask questions later. Or, if the situation were reversed - Palestinian police gunning down some Jewish settlers suspected of killing Palestinians - there would be outrage across the entire Jewish world. Its a sad day when people encourage this type of lawlessness and accept it as what "should" happen. This is not a Jewish value. It is not representative of a just social order.

...extrajudicial revenge killings. Well, this what seems to be criminal IDF action, is just another example of its 'most moral' standards. In any self respecting civilized western country suspects of murder are being arrested and put to trial. The last time we had extrajudicial revenge killings in Holland, was during the NAZI era. So go and figure out at what level the IDF is operating?

it's sickening when a group that promotes terror calls themselves human rights advocates

Says more about B'Tselem than it does about anything else

"Simply executing people without trial is a charateristic of a failed state" Think how many more Palestinians are going to die before Israel realises this!

As B noted, B'Tselem are not in the habit of wild accusations and in this case would have relied on the statements of multiple witnesses. As their statistics are accepted throughout the world, they can't afford to have their integrity compromised.

The IDF better be prepared that this kind of vocabulary will be used for any action they take. The Arabs sense that if they repeat these sorts of allegations long and often enough, they will stick eventually.

arial sharon was accountable for numerous massacres most notably 'sabra and shatilla' which 1200 or more palestinian women and children were murdered, and with a nod and a wink they gave him a vacation and then elected him PM

We all should thank the guy who just saved 250plus innocent souls from a disaster. That is the show for today. It may or may have been a disaster is oximoron for the B'Tselem people who comes out with fantastic assumptions, just because it happens that Israel is doing its most important job: PROTECT ITS CITIZENS. Where was B'tselem when a father of seven was unceremoniously assassinated while just getting to his family?! If you want to be credible then you have to be seeking JUSTICE for all, no matter the origines or gender....

Wouldn't be the first time they jump to accuse Israel. I would suggest that it is the PA who is a failed state as they should have done the job. I am only happy none of our soldiers were killed in the raid.

Your selective use of "may" would only extend to the IDF and settlers then? Where as "did" only extends to the Palestinians for everything except offering peace! All the maybe's are excepted in Israels case, maybe nukes, maybe "settlement building" maybe freeze,maybe occupation,maybe self defence, maybe war crimes! All the maybe's sure add up to alot of "DIDS"! But all in all the maybers give thier Unquestioning support! ....PEACE EVER?

Oh yeah, they were Palestinians. And they had weapons. I guess that is all the proof they need. So what if they were unarmed. They could have been armed. Or maybe they could have had weapons of mass destruction. Justice, IDF style.

"According to Israel Radio, a fourth wanted militant turned himself in to Palestinian authorities. " I am sure the terrorist is staying at a 5 star hotel now and living it up as this is how terrorist are treated when under the protection of the PA police.

"IDF forces are permitted to open fire in order to neutralize the threat" "Neutralize the threat", indeed! Such language for an extra-judicial assassination!

Force your way in, shoot the suspects, ignore an investigation of the IDF, and then, maybe...just maybe, PROVE that the victims were terrorists. Without a constitution, which most civilized countries have, Israel forces do what they wish. From the Hotel David bombing, the murder of Count Benadotte, the bombing of the USS Liberty, crushing of Lebanon and the strangulation of Gaza after merciless bombing of helpless civilians, Israel's responses know no bounds. And when folks criticize Israel, of course they are "anti-semites." No wonder there is a rise in ill feelings towards Israel; and it will get worse. Prove the allegations, then shoot. By the way, what do you do with settlers who kill Pals?

If there was no truth to the allegations, B'tselem would not waste time reporting it. Criminals on both sides need to be held accountable for crimes. Simply executing people without trial is a charateristic of a failed state.

I believe the IDF and it is about time Israel reacted strongly to terrorists.

the arab Ma'an news agency report that is based on arabs fabricated false accusations . Keep in mind that 2 guns and 2 M16 with a lot of bullets (and more)were retrieved from the scenes , are sufficient to arm 3 terrorists , And those weapons were revealed to be connected to the murder of the Rabbi. The motive behind such arabs fabricated false accusations is to compell IDF to take prisonners so they later be released in an extortion ransom deal. IDF rules of engagement are crystal clear . And a dead terrorist is not a IDF interest . A dead terrorist cannot be confronted with facts, evidence in return for info that could sweeten a court of law verdict . Example: one of the dead terrorist was release after serving a sentence of seven years only, for killing a Israeli .

Seems like B'Tselem likes to quickly jump the gun in placing the blame on the IDF.

Some folks need to believe fantasy`s like that as a means of coping with fear.

Well these terrorist had been released before and look what happen they continued killing Jews. And Israel is thinking about releasing more terrorist with blood on their hands for Shalit??

Assume that the suspects refused to surrender. There were no hostages so what should the IDF have done? In civilized countries, like most European democracies, the police surround the house, seal off the area, bring in negotiators and wait a few hours or a few days. The suspects inevitably surrender, are arrested and tried where the question of their guilt or innocence is determined in a court of law. Like too many gun crazy cops in the U.S., the IDF seems to have seen too many American Westerns where the bad guys have to get shot dead before the film ends. Anyway, it is unthinkable that the IDF would have killed a Jewish suspect who refused to surrender and had family members in his house.

His wife was a threat? What are values of Jewish soldiers?

By all means -- an investigation! Can't wait?

You wouldnt except a burglar coming into your house to be civil, would you?

came back unharmed.....

The betselem know it alls should have gone on the arrest raid and put their own lives at stake.The soldiers were too nice they should take absolutly no risk to themselves or fellow soldiers whom they owe an obligation to. If family members want to live with a terrorist then you run the risk of being killed, the same way if a BOMB THAT THEY WERE HIDING GOES OFF PREMATURELY

them and trading them for Shalit.

drove down the road. IF it happened one could actually say that they sort of brought it upon themselves BUT I would never say that.

is sick. Still - they're only acting under orders.