Arab bloc requests fresh UN debate on Israeli actions in Gaza

If Geneva does not apply, then the UK courts have no say in the matter. All that the UK can do is ask Israel to investigate. In one case, Israel did send the sergeant to prison. None of this clers up, though, the very dangerous practice of using human shields by the International Solidarity Movement and other groups like it. If they want to help Palestinians, they should do it as neutral parties.

I have responded to you both but my reply has not yet been chosen to be published. However I repeat, with slight amendments, my response in the hope that it was overlooked for technical reasons. The people concerned were unlawfully killed. A soldier is already doing time for one murder and hopefully other convictions may soon follow. Forget Geneva we are talking about pre-meditated murder not the rules of war. Incidentally have you actually declared war? Perhaps we should look at the legal status of your argument.

Hello Jeff, I meant to get to you a whole lot sooner but I got side terribly side tracked*. Still, I wanted to touch base with you on your post yesterday. I am totally against unilateralism as I feel it short changes the Palestinian people of their lawful and just claims to the land and it is one sided. Indeed, it's not even lawful as you may know under international law. In addition, how can Israel talk about trading in the global economy when other countries will resent its withholding of Palestinian land? That's another reason why peace is priceless as it opens doors in so many other ways and places. I can fully understand why Ibrahim get upset with you for calling the territories "disputed" instead of occupied. He has experieced first hand and he said it's like being caged in. The Israelis can be so cruel and sadistic in their ways, at times. But he is right it's a lot of Zionist propaganda .The ICJ reaffirmed Israel's status as occupied in 2004 when it ruled on the wall. I can't go over the border markings with you right now but I believe they should conform with the internationally recognized Green Line. Still, you seem to have a much better gasp on this than me but I don't know if I can trust you as you seem to take so many liberties with the law. I am afraid you might give Israel too much. I think I would feel better if Ibrahim agreed with you. I wish you had more regard for the rights of the Palestinians. I think it would serve everyone's interests better and I wouldn't have to disagree with you as much either.I liked that. Both people need to live together and the more respect and honesty the better to rebuild trust. I hope you can agree with this at least. I gotta go and must say good night to you and thanks. Cheers, Dutch P.S. My daughter is visiting Switzerland on what seems like an ongoing spring break (a few weeks ago she was in Europe) but now she is homesick in Switzerland for Easter. She says she misses all the things we do for Easter and I do too but the break is refreshing after many years of playing the Easter Bunny. It's nice to have a break from all the hopping and hiding too. Well, Cheers. P.P.S. BBI wants to know how I do it with my posts. But I have no idea I just keep writing until I need to stop and that's it!

Jeff, Thanks for your post. I appreciate your desire to inform me and set the record straight--although I can't always with you. I wish all this violence would stop. But now the IDF wants to bomb some more--This is distressing. I don't know where their humanity is anymore. They seem soulless. Talk to you again soon! Thanks, Dutch.

Your problem as many like you is that you hide behind the defense of people not being Israelis in order to suppress criticisms, but I bet you'd have no objections to any outsider who defends Israel unconditionally regardless of their background. BTW, I was an immigrant to Israel, but chose not to remain for the obvious reasons, nevertheless, I do have family living there. Irrespective of the status of any Israeli, that's hardly an excuse for total indifference & what you're literally doing is validating the silence of anyone who did not speak out in the face of such horrific oppression & brutal crimes in the course of history. One did not have to be a So. African to protest apartheid, & surely, I bet you'd have had no qualms about anyone speaking out the way Jews were treated during the 1930's in Germany even if they were not German citizens. So basically, your remarks are hypocritical & reveal double standards. Levy's statements as being "provocative" reflects your indifference.

Hamas will never be anything but a terrorist group and the pals should realize what these actions make them look like to the rest of the world.

Even the Irgun Zvai Leumi offered to fight on the side of the Nazis against the British! It was also more important according to Zionist ideologies to send Jews to Palestine as opposed to sending them elsewhere where many may have been saved. Who was it who said: "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel" (Ben Gurion) Read "Zionism in the Age of the Dictators" by Lenni Brenner, soneone you can't call an "Arab propagandist," or "anti-semitic," unless you want to label him a "self-hating Jew." Those are usually the choices. http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/

But you cannot change the facts. We all know the story, but that's not the entire story, and far from it...it's what you Zionists manage to conveniently leave out...even Benny Morris, a staunch Zionist and great defender of Israel, who advocated genocide if need be, wrote about the rape, torture and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians notwithstanding what they were told to do. Even Ha'aretz reported how Arabs were put on buses and told they could come back in two weeks and were never permitted to do so. Even Arabs who are citizens of Israel cannot go back to some of their villages. Better take your story to someone else because you Zionists always try to come up smelling like roses.

a word processor for some spelling help. I certainly could use that one. As far as fitting lots of charaters, when I tried it before with Dutch's message (copied/pasted from Haaretz to MS Word and then copied/pasted back to a Haaretz form)it cut me off at 1000. But I have yet to try it with a smaller font.

Howdy bbl; I think Dutch cuts-and-pastes a lot. It might be possible to write something longer than a 1000 characters using a word processor and then just cut-and-paste it into the talkback window, but I haven't tried that. If I have something to say which is going to run out of room, then I'll just divide it up into more than one post. I use my word processor only to try to keep my spelling mistakes down to a low roar.

He uses MS WORD for the text - you can tell by the ? that show up instead of the " ". He uses a small font.

I am calling your bluff and calling you and out and out liar. I am very well aware of Deir Yassin, Abu Ghosh, and any of the historical periods you wish to discuss. However, the facts are that Arabs did not accept the partition plan, they attacked us, they lost. They broadcast to their people to flee and come back soon when the Jews were defeated. They even told their people the outright lie that Jews were raping Arab women to try to incite the neighboring Arab countries to come to their defense. If you persist on lying then I defy to present documentation and bonafide references to prove your allegations. My family fought with the Irgun and the Haganah and I am prepared to cited references and prove you a liar.

David Ben Gurion was an unusual man, a thinker, a leader and a great human being. Placing yourself in his shoes pretending to be a relative who still live in Sde Boker is degrading the state of Israel. Your pretended logic is not sound. By dismissing the IDF judgment and waiving the international law pretending to be an expert on international legal aspects you are committing a crime. Only on the Internet one can get by with these games - in real life they would've put you in jail a long time ago.

When I type, I cannot get over 1000 characters with spaces into a post. Dutch, on the other hand can post up to 1782 (based on post #323). What gives? Is there a secret key combination I'm unaware of? Or, does Dutch have something on one of Haaretz's techies?

I'll tell you one thing...if someone expulsed me from my home that I'd known all my life by foreign invaders, I'd be saying the same thing. Now, we all know how the Palestinians were expulsed from their lands, at least the majority who were forced to flee or fled in fear, so enough of the Zionist myths that everyone ran because they were told to do so. It's all out in the open, or haven't you heard? Imagine, for Jews to have suffered under such oppression, to have been so dehumanized and demonized, and then to come and to likewise to others.... When will they ever learn?

Howdy Dutch; The difference between terrorism and unfortunate "collateral damage" lies in intent. Terrorism is the deliberate targeting of civilians whereas collateral damage is the unintentional killing or wounding of non-combatants or "protected persons". A certain amount of collateral damage is to be expected during a war. Aside from a few individual cases in which a war crime was actually commited, most armies (including the IDF) try to minimize collateral damage. In order to charge an Israeli, general-grade officer with a war crime, you need to look at the statistics. In particular, the ratio of civilian to enemy-combatant deaths due to hostile causes. In Vietnam, the U.S. had a ratio of about 3:1. The IDF has a much better ratio of about 1:1. You might be able to charge an IDF general with a war crime, but when the facts come out, he will be exonerated. Good luck and Happy Passover and Easter to you!

In response to your vitriolic tirade, as long as terrorists are uncompromising committed to our total destruction, shoot Qassams at our people, plant bombs, indescriminately blow up people in markets, buses, shopping centers, hotels, Universities, etc. they are not entitled to any rights. The terrorist attacks on our people date back more than a century and preceed anything we ever did against them. Haj Amin Al-Husseini collaborated with Hitler and advocated our annihilation. With their continued dedication to our destruction, we will shoot back. We will kill those that try to kill us. We will disrupt their penetrations into Israel. We will disrupt their weapons and logistics. Furthermore, statistics show it is working. Israeli deaths are down this year. So long as PALs continue to attempt to kill and terrorize us they will be terrorized until they learn. Peace begats peace. War begats war. And if they choose war so be it. We will win.

I do reconcile that I'm fortunate to live where I do while others are oppressed such as the Palestinians living under Israel's brutal occupation which is what you can't stand that I speak out about. Don't speak to me about suicide bombings because I have family also who live in Israel, and don't tell me about the Holocaust because if you did have relatives who died there, then shame yourself all the more for supporting oppression and racism.

Really, I don't hate myself, and I did live as a Jew in the Middle East at one time, and thankfully, not all Jews have your mentality, such as good and decent Israeli Jews like Jeff Halper, Gideon Levy, Amira Hass, and quite a few others. Tired of hearing about how Arabs have it worse somewhere else, because it's like saying southern Blacks had it better than South African Blacks so why complain. What a sick way to justify crimes, racism and bigotry. According to you, it means that if Jews had it worse somewhere else than they did in Germany in the 1930's, that would have been justifiable also.

Philly Jew, I get my news from many different sources. Your bias towards the BBC is over doing it on this point : Bombing is bombing. Now you need to relax! Cheers, Dutch

Howdy Danite; There's a major problem. The PA is factionalized at the moment. The Chairmanship of the PA is held by Abbas (a Fatah member) with near-dictatorial powers inherited from Arafat (MHRIH). The Palestinian Parliament has a 57% majority of Hamas members and the Palestinian Cabinet is completely dominated by Hamas members or their sympathizers. Israel will not talk to Hamas because it is an internationally recognized terrorist organization and she definitely won't talk to anybody if there's any shooting going on. Hamas won't talk to Israel; they have said as much and it's written down in their Charter that negotiations are "an exercise in futility". That only leaves Abbas, but even if Israel and the PLO can work out a deal, why should Hamas and the rest of the Palestinian militant groups be bound to honor it? No, that's too flakey. It's better to go with "unilateral convergence" as the lesser of two evils like you said. At least it's a sure thing.

Marlene, living in a place as a guest, namely, in a situation where you are able and free to leave whenever you want, is not the same as becoming an immigrant. Of course I know that there are discrepencies of income in Israel, although this situation has become more accute in recent years. Please do not hide behind Gideon Levy's back. Whatever his opinions, he is a real Israeli. He has therefore earned the right to make provocative statements. In other words, he has paid his dues. Your posts show consistantly, unfortunately, that you lack the emotional depth required to make any sound judgments.

Philly Jew, Thank you for your post. Just because I criticize Israeli policy that doesn't mean I hate Jews. I could try and tell you Israel never has such a friend but I know you will dismiss it outright--so I won't push this point. Still, as Gandhi said my great sympathy for the Jewish experience doesn't excuse me or them from facing the truth. How true. Now how can you say it's not the Occupation that causes the Palestinians to act out? Would you continue to seek services from a doctor or anyone else if he dismissed your problems? I doubt it. Remember, People define the problem and our job in professional lifeis to help them resolve it not to change it to what we think it should be. Take a look at what the Palestinian poet says about the occupation and what it does to his life and world (below). Anyway, thank you for your quote. Hate is terrible thing but goodness often overcomes it. I appreciated your good wishes for the Holidays. Someday, I will get to Israel but right now I think it would break my heart to see how Israelis live compared with Palestinians; and all the checkpoints, etc ==I would feel that whole system was so cruel and unjust. I would want to tear it all down with my hands and probably end up behind bars. Cheers for now! Dutch P.S. Mahmoud Darvwsh on the Israeli Occupation: ?The Occupation doesn't content itself with depriving us of the primary conditions of freedom, but goes onto deprive us of the bare essentials of a dignified human life, by declaring constant war on our bodies, and our dreams, on the people and the houses and the trees, and by committing crimes of war. It does not promise us anything more than the apartheid system, and the capacity of the sword to defeat the soul.? Mahmoud Darwish

For someone who can still remember the Palestinian leaving Israel with all their belonging, driving on Haifa to the Lebanon border road, waiving sticks and yelling ?we?ll come back and kill you all,? it is always strange to see the same people complain to the UN. They left because they believed that the Arab armies will kill the Jews and they will come back and take it all. Had they accepted the UN plan in 1948 they could have had a great country side by side to Israel. When you gamble and loose you can?t ask for you money back but, that what they have been doing ever since. When you attack expect to get hit back. Don?t cry when you make a bad decision ? learn from it! When will they ever learn?

And his op/ed for April 16 entitled "Who is a terrorist?" I do not see the opportunity to respond yet, so doing it here.

But I've already lived in Israel and what I speak from is from experience which is the best teacher, so please don't tell me about my life and assume things about me. And by the way, New York ain't all that posh, just as Israel ain't all that poor. Plenty of places where one has to be very rich to live in Israel in very expensive dwellings. Or don't you know about that?

Dutch, u get your info from the BBC? Haha! And to think all this time I thought you had actually reached your ridiculous conclusions from a valid, unbiased source! Wow, I truly am sorry to have engaged you in debate. And friend--as a good Jew to a Jew-hater, let me give you the last word.... the post is all yours.

You are so very right. These left wing radicals here on the east coast of the USA need a cause celebre to feel good about themselves. They cannot reconcile the fact they live in the wealthiest society in the world while others are opressed and starve. Meanwhile, in every border where an Islamic country is adjacent next to a non-Islamic country, there are problems. Marlene is obviously no intellect of politics, though. She only takes in what she hears and spews it back out like a machine. I think she's fit right in with the Islamic conception of women--think very little. And Marlene, we live so close to each other. Maybe we can meet up and I can show you pictures of all my relatives who died in the Holocaust and continue to suffer under suicide bombs. And yes, somehow we can think of a new battle for you to wage. Housewives of the world, unite!

"What I knew was that the West side of Jordan river was not included in what you called "KANAAN" (Bible) or "PROMISED LAND"." I'm not one for Biblical rationalizations for the existance of modern day Israel. I think the current history (last few hundred years) provide ample defense for the nation. However, I can't help but to wonder what you think the Eastern border of Cannan is/was; if not the West Bank of the Jordan River.

"No Jewish person on this website will ever take what you say for face value." If you want to speak for yourself as a Jewish person not taking what Dutch has to say at face value, that's fine, but how dare you speak for all Jews! Better say "I" and not "we" because you sure don't speak for all Jews on this website. The problem is that the only thing you know as a response is accusing someone of being a Jew hater because you don't have any other solid response to make to what's being said.

Howdy Dutch; Israel's "hard-line" policies are in the best interests of the Israeli people. The number of Israeli casualties due to terrorist attacks has been reduced to less than 10% of what they used to be just four years ago. The Palestinian's military options are slowly being strangled to insignificance by the security barrier. Due to their own obstinate recalcitrance, the new Hamas-led government has been cut off from foreign aid from the West and unless they can raise $2 billion/yr. from their not-so-generous Muslim buddies, the PA will be an organization of all leaders and no followers. How clever of you to notice that Israeli policy is designed to allienate the Palestinians. That is precisely the object; namely: to physically separate the two hostile peoples permanently with a frontier of Israel's choosing. Why talk to terrorists? Nobody else does. That only encourages more terrorism and more demands. Everybody is listening to Ahmadinejad very carefully and we don't li

Still have that veil on, huh Marlene? Still think what the Israelis are doing to the Arabs is worse than what happened in South Africa? I'll tell you what I think is truly the worst--when someone with no right to talk who has never directly experience living as a Jew in the Middle East comes on an Israeli site and uses their freedom to weaken that country's right to defend itself. THE ARABS IN ISRAEL ARE TREATED BETTER THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. WHY NOT ADDRESS PALESTINIAN PERSECUTION OF HOMOSEXUALS AND WOMEN, OR THEIR USE OF ANTI-SEMITISM IN THEIR HISTORY TEXTBOOKS. YOU HATE JEWS. JUST ADMIT IT. YOU THINK WE ARE GREEDY LAND STEALS AND THAT WE WILL COME FOR YOU NEXT. STOP EMBARESSING YOURSELF MARLENE.

Of course Chana is emotional. She is talking about that which she has experienced both in South Africa and in Israel. You, on the other hand, living in posh New York, repeat only what you have read. You have no extensive experience. All you do is make assertions, without any ability to analyse a situation that preoccupies many in the international community.

"Gaza shelling will continue even if more civilians are killed." This is a deliberate statement proving he is aware he is committing crimes against humanity, and the Americans still back Israel. Wait until the Americans want out of Iraq with what little dignity they can muster, the Americans will sell their souls to the Arabs and Generals Eiskenkott, Almog, Yaalon, Mofaz & Halutz will be handcufferd & dragged to the Hague" Mustapha K, I couldn't agree with you more this is a deliberate intent to cause unnecessary harm to innocent people and Mofaze, Halutz.Yaalon and General Eiskenkott should be dragged to the Hague in hand cuffs.. This whole escalation is reckless approach people should talk and try and work things out foe the good and safety of all. It's so cruel to harm innocent people. Thank you, Dutch P. S. I heard a recording on the BBC today and it was shocked and now I can fully appreciate the horror local residents are reporting. Please see what this one woman had to say (URL below) . I feel this is state terrorism against a defenseless people. http://a-mother-from-gaza.blogspot.com/ See the article: I feel the Earth is closing in on us

Please Dutch, do not hate the Jews. It's so cliche and pointless. No Jewish person on this website will ever take what you say for face value. You repeat the same arguments without ever responding to specific points we bring up on this blog against you. It's so evident your just spewing out the propaganda against Israel so popular in the Western world. I have a suggestion--make some Jewish friends, perhaps even soldiers in the IDF. You will see they have no interest in hurting or opressing anyone. Maybe even make a trip to Israel. In fact, I'd even buy the ticket for you. Sit down...have some coogle. Relax. We didn't write the Protocals. We don't control the world, and we aren't looking to take over the Arabs. And finally, look deep within your heart. Maybe there's a little Jewishness in you, too. Have a wonderful holiday my friend.

I have a strong feeling from your response that you known darn well what I'm speaking of but refuse to face up to it. Nothing I'm saying either that your own human rights group B'tselem has not already said. Now I agree, apartheid wall is not really the proper term because apartheid separates one group of people from another group. In this case, it also separates Palestinians from Palestinians, from their familes, and even from their own lands, not to mention the wanton destruction of their property, all which by the way is illegal. In any case, my error, it's much worse than just "apartheid"!

Is it now a sacriledge to critizise a plegarizer such as yourself by order of the mighty Haaaaretz and Burston. You know exactly what I meant Ashdod and not Ashkelon but not to worry that is probably coming in the not too distant future. I guess the passage of time has not made you into a more proficient reader and interpreter of replies.I said that Hamas is finally moderating after 6 moths after the retreat from Gaza and not after being 6 months in office. There is a big difference you know. I heard a rumour that Judea and Samaria would be handed over to the Jews in exchange for Gaza but that turned out to be a hoax. But for some reasons you still paddle that electricity issue. Now that is a hoax and if you were a lawyer would probably bring charges for food spoilage against Israel.

Bradley Burston may have outlawed whatever you think it to be but I still see the same all idiocy being spoited on this site without regard for the truth or even knowledge and as hard as he may try cannot make you what you are not. He can also not change reality with the Arabs as hard as he may try and eventually Haaretz and your liberal ilk will disappear into the dustbin of history never to be heard of again. I am the new wave and the future of Israel and it is only a matter of time. Ben Gurion the plegarizer can not change his Arab stripe either and try as he may even the mighty Burston cannot knock any sense into him. An Arab does not change his stripe that easily. Stifling free speech is the LEFTIST trademark: so what else is new. I guess Buston and people like you are only interested in validating your points of view. In your case I am sure that there is no point of vie to be had.

Hey Dutch, if you didn't believe me about Arab hostility towards Israel immigrants, most of whom came from the Holocaust to Israel with no intention of persecuting anyone, this quote may open up your mind to the Arab mentality that existed in 1948 and still exists to the day... On May 15, 1948, the Arab League Secretary General Abdul Razek Azzam Pasha announced the intention to wage "a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades." Friendly people, no? I suppose Israel shoould have just laid down their guard for this massacre? No, you fight back and defend yourself, and that is what Israel does to this day. We Jews have no sympathy for a people who want to wipe us out. They are not fighting out of being oppressed. They are fighting because they want no other culture to exist in the Middle East. To them, anything that is not Islamic is an affront. And to think, you sponsor this same idea.

I agree completely with the idea of negotiating with Abbas and accepting a hudna with Hamas.Israel could use a ceasefire while it does its withdrawls.Of course Hamas will use this to garner more powers but that cuts both ways I have no problem with that and have argued for both points on many occasions.That being said one must also understand the internal dynamics and organisational and personal considerations that motivate these gangs to attack they must be dealt with harshly.If Hamas under the rubric of a ceasefire can control them all the better.I stll think that had negotiations been attempted over the Gaza withdrawl Israel would still be there.Unilateralism is the lesser of the two evils for now.Also accepting a ceasefire from Hamas is complicated as well,if Israel `breaks`it then they are justified to send suicide bombers?Their are no clear cut perfect solutions here,Israel must negotiate like their is no Hamas and the gangs and fight the gangs like there was no negotiations.

Hey Dutch. Time for a history lesson! Most Jews came to Israel, and excuse my French, without a pot to piss in. The UN agreed to split the former British territory into two states, one Jewish, one Arab...very fair if you ask me considering both cultures have strong historical and cultural roots there. The Jews after all, did not ask to leave--the diaspora really happened when the Romans kicked them out in 70AD. After the Holocaust they had nowhere else to go but back home. They wanted two states--they wanted peace. This can be seen in the 1948 UN vote when the Jews excepted the proposal and the Arabs did not. In fact, they not only rejected it, but Israel's neighbors decided to invade and try to wipe out Israel. Against all odds, Israel won--no American support at this time either. Threatened again in 1967, Israel really triumphed, and managed to win more land. So you see, the original agressors are the Arabs, not the Jews. Read your history, DUTCH.

Your referral is to racist riots & incidents of racism, that which can take place anywhere & does does. What I'm speaking of is having to confront racism strictly because of your identity & as part of your everyday existence. There are no laws in the United States that exist today that Americans are subjected to which use outright language to deny a person's rights based on racist criteria which defines your identity. This does not mean that racism does not exist but any country who uses outright racist laws & policies where one identity is the supreme being should certainly be condemned. Now you have tha audacity to speak about Martin Luther King, who was assassinated in 1968, nearly 40 years ago!! If he spoke warmly of Israel, it's because he didn't know any better as most people, including myself. Please don't insult his memory to think that a great man as he would support apartheid laws & racist policies which in essence would be validating racism against his own people

To # 197 and # 203. Sorry I am mowing the lawn I'll get back to you tomorrow.

"A million postings will never destroy us! We are a tolerant and rational people! We seek only to preserve our tiny little country and nothing more! One day the world will be all democracies and Israel will be safe! Philly Jew, I guess its going to take another million postings to get you and others in Israel to face the truth that you are not really quite the tolerant and rational people you claim to be. At least, not while Israel keep 3.5 Palestinians daily under a military siege; and deny them their human rights and launch massive violence and military attacks against them; and arrest and detain them at will, torture and targeted kill their militant leaders? In addition, how can they expect to feel safe as a people engaging in such cruel and unfair practices? I suggest you face up to the truth about how intolerant and irrational you are as a people and stop these unfair practices. Thank you, Dutch

David, I feel your comments are unfair, Yes ,I should leave more comments on different issues but I already read a couple of newspapers day, plus articles and columns from around the world. Thus, my time becomes limited. Still. I will try and be more mindful of your comments. I feel what the Iranian President said though outrageous bears listening too. Israel's hard line policies of the last five years have been very alienating towards the Palestinian people, those in the region and around the world. I feel Israel needs to ease up on these policies as they are not in the best interests of the Israelis and it places them at unnecessary risk for harm. For example, I feel Israel's no talk to terrorist isn't very wise as it places Israelis at unnecessary. I believe leaders should always hear the disputes of people in their midst to avoid causing others to act out in extreme ways that compromises everyone's safety. I know that was how Teddy Roosevelt handled the problem of anarchism at the dawn of the 20th century and he solved the problem of Anarchists which plagued the world and his administration. Then people called the anarchists "madmen" as they went around blowing up manufacturing plants and assassinating financiers. But there was nothing mad about how they were being short changed by the financiers though their behavior was reckless and extreme. But what I admire about Teddy Roosevelt being the sharp lawyer he was, he always looked at the evidence and was guided by this. Thus he refrained from placing labelson people and never called the anarchists "madmen". Thus, in his first address to Congress while he agreed to fight the terror of the anarchists he went on to introduced reforms that not only diagnosed the root causes of anarchism but the cure. Needless to say, his reforms made the US capitalist system free of conflict throughout the 20th century and the Apple of the world's eye. I doubt if he wouldn't have called the Palestinians terrorists as the the Israeli government does today and or that he would never have endorsed a policy of isolation policy against Hamas as Israel and others are engaged in today. I hope this helps you to understand my position better too. Many thanks, Dutch

There are new rules now Gabe,since you were away.Bradley Burston set down the law.We all now have to speak in a quiet tone,even if we do carry a big stick. We have to write relative to the articles and not silly things about each other. My humour IS allowed,as I am policing this site for Bradley while he is on other business and this is my payment,so you will have to suffer that. We have all adopted Ben Gurions politik,though we all dumped Abbas after the first vote,which made Ben really upset. Now are we ready for some good banter,some REALLY GOOD liberal banter???????????

and also pal terrorism

Listen...I am hoping everyone will read this, including Dutch and his anti-Israeli cabal. I just wanted to say to everyone not to let these anti-Israel postings get you down. Christian, Muslim, or Jewish, any intelligent human being knows that Jews have a right to a country of their own. People can post a million ideas against the Jews, blaming them for everything from opressing them Arabs to being behind 9/11 but we (as in rational people)know that history is on our side. Not only history, but the my own country, too--the only ones left willing to fight for freedom. A million postings will never destroy us! We are a tolerant and rational people! We seek only to preserve our tiny little country and nothing more! One day the world will be all democracies and Israel will be safe! Keep hope my friends! Shalom to all of you and I am thinking of all those who are defending us in the DIASPORA everyday. Thank you for your help! Even though we do not express it, it means alot

Thanks Jeff, you fueling my rockets. pd:as allways ,learning of you.

There are 191 Member States of the United Nations, over 50, of which, are Muslim and ONE Jewish! UN Commission on Human Rights is made up of the world's worst violators of human rights! It is obvious Israel is not in a fair situatiion. The U.S. is trying to even the odds. You do the math!

this your fantasy about abbas, he is as criminal as arafat or al zahar period. we should transfer all pals and this is most humanitarian solution, otherwise it will be bloodshed and not jewish.

Amen.

...ours martyrs asking for you... pd:we are out of stock, why you no visiting us

You show up after a long absence just to criticize me? Funny that your co-Fake BG also showed up today for a similar task. (Orquest now calls himself "Jerry Segal"; see his post #233 and my #255 on the Ahmadinejad forum.) I am a little suspicious, Gabe1. You used to have better knowledge of the basic facts than that Segal guy who couldn't retain any detail in his head. Are you sure you are not him? Hamas has been in power for the last couple of weeks only, and rumors are circulating that on Monday they will accept the Arab League's peace plan of 2002, recognizing Israel in return for the 1967 borders. I am not saying Israel should accept it as is, but don't you think it is a great moderating move? Brings honor to Darwin and the rest of us nature lovers. Now take a look at the map and tell me: Which is closer to Gaza, Ashkelon or Yad Mordechai? And how many Qassams did hit Ashkelon? (Answer to no.2 :none.)

" What I knew was that the West side of Jordan river was not included in what you called "KANAAN" (Bible) or "PROMISED LAND". So, you would have not abandoned the God given land if you share it to palestinians people" Israel is on the West side of the Jordan river and Jordan is on the East side of the river, so you are suggesting that Israel abandon the "Promised Land". Just pointing that in case you didn't realize.

And the Americans still can't figure out why they are so disliked by the Arab world. Haaretzs 14 April 2006 article on Aluf Gadi Eisenkott quotes him as saying, "Gaza shelling will continue even if more civilians are killed." This is a deliberate statement proving he is aware he is committing crimes against humanity, and the Americans still back Israel. Wait until the Americans want out of Iraq with what little dignity they can muster, the Americans will sell their souls to the Arabs and Generals Eiskenkott, Almog, Yaalon, Mofaz & Halutz will be handcufferd & dragged to the Hague.

Well Dutch, perhaps ypou could define the Palestinian territories for the rest of us; and while you are at it tell us how it dovetails with the Palestinian Government borders, which it has quite explicitly described as from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean. It is sometimes quite wonderful how apologists for the Palestinians describe the 1967 borders as those meant by the Palestinians even though those they speak for explicitly do not accept them.

“According to Israel radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael, [Shimon] Peres warned [Ariel] Sharon Wednesday that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us." At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned toward Peres, saying "every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it." The radio said Peres and other cabinet ministers warned Sharon against saying what he said in public because "it would cause us a public relations disaster." Thanks, this is what you support? Thanks for nothing.

It is very interesting to note that after 6 six months after Gaza Hamas is finally moderating their desires to kill. They are moderating their proxies all the way to Ashkelon and Yad Mordechai. BEWARE THE ENEMIES WITHIN. Right On Danite!!!!!!!! Post #275.

Its time we as Jews worked even harder to bring light to the world and of course our own situation.Its not easy or simple but your words are true. To any Jews reading: Dont be lost within this cycle of hate,dont give up our need for justice whether its for us or them,either.From our own Jewish perspective lets find the truth,keep secure and work for the good.

Thanks for the response. The political system here in the US heavily favours the incumbent. The cost of a national presidential campaign is now over $100 million making it difficult for a 3rd party. It has been tried - remember Ross Perot, John Anderson, Ralph Nader? Further to the Harvard paper. In the footnotes you find a memo from Hamilton Jordan to Jimmy Carter which describes the influience that pro-Israel money plays in American politics. For fun Google Earl Hilliard/Arturo Davis and read about a campaign in Alabama, I think you will be amazed. Happy reading! Regards.

The SH in Hebrew often interchanges with S in Arabic (Shalom vs. Salaam, Midrash vs. Madrassa, B'saken vs. Shochen, etc.) Every so often there is a throwback such as Arabic Shmaal vs S'mol in Hebrew for "left". Hebrew here has the S and Arabic the SH. In the Seder in Chad Gadia we mention Tora (the Bull - Tor is bull and suffix a is the definitive). The Hebrew is Shor. So between Hebrew and Aramaic one transformation is SH and T. This is brought to Arabic and across Africa where it goes to Spain and becomes El Toro. Note that another such throwback is Torah vs Shariya - Law for Jews and Law for Moslems. For those who wondered about the Arabic "Al Quds". Al is "the". Quds, changing the S to SH is K-D-SH or Kadosh. So in Arabic Al Quds is "The Holy" [city]. Learning from each other is much better than fighting. We both can walk away enriched.

"Your view is to do nothing while pursuing a political course that might or might not happen" - Danite #275 "3. Start peace talks with Abbas while observing a hudna with Hamas. (Follow my peace plan.)" - BG #179 Peace talks should be conducted with a quiet background. For this a hudna will be useful, and Hamas will impose its authority over militants. Of course, this will not happen since Kadima believes it will get more by unilateral action. What is likely to happen in the short run is IDF incursions into Gaza (which is what you recommend). Such can result in reoccupation after a few episodes. Israel is very reluctant to do this, because it would mean the failure of Sharon's unilateral policy; Sharon is the True Prophet of the day (until proven False). Israel is strangely devoid of political wisdom nowadays.

Amen V'yehi R'tzono Shnikne L'rot Shalom L'vaneinu uv'nei vaneinu L'chulanu. Saydati wa'saadati, kulna lazim Salaam l'waladna w'banaatna. We all need peace for our children's sake. Nothing is accomplish by propoganding hatred. The Torah outlines Arey Miklat as a mechanism to break the cycle of violence. We also need to find a solution. For anyone who has the opportunity to make a Moslem friend, you will be amazed at how much the Quran is influenced by the Torah and how much we have in common. It is a shame that the extremists have hijacked Islam and brought shame on Moslems and Arabs with terrorism. This is not Islam.

The Israelis are pragmatists. The leaders are not thinking spiritually. They have part of it correct because of the influence of the Rabbis. That is the conservation of the remnant which others call racism. Get a Biblical Atlas which can give you the rough boundaries of the land. Remember there were two kingdoms, a Northern and a Southern one. But Sinai was definitely not part of it. The Palestinians are not ready to be absorbed as they are still in a state of war with Israel. Their future is in question both physically and spiritually if they remain combatants. Here is one that is ready www.shoebat.com but we are in a real countdown. There are now 18 Million Jews left in the entire world. The ones outside Israel are dissapearing fast. That will leave 6 Million Jews still alive in Israel. Outside of Israel, it will be up to the guardians of Israel, the Evangelical Christians who according to interpretation can be anywhere from 20 Million to 600 Million strong to stand fast! Selah!

Howdy Indrajaya; UNSCR 242 requires Israeli forces to withdraw from most (but not necessarily all) occupied territories subject to certain conditions being met with first such as cessation of all hostilities, negotiated determination of borders, and mutual recognition. At the time, the occupied territories were the Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank including East Jerusalem. Egypt got the Sinai back because she met the conditions for withdrawl. Syria didn't get the Golan Heights back because she refused to meet the conditions and it's probably too late now anyway because Israel has annexed the Golan. Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip because she doesn't want the responsibility for 1.4 million hostile Palestinians any longer. Israel annexed East Jerusalem. The rest of the West Bank will probably be divided more-or-less along the lines of the security barrier whether the Palestinians agree to the border or not.

Let me put it into simple terms that even you can understand. Jews are at home in Israel and aren't leaving. I know that's hard for you to swallow, but the longer it takes for you to come to terms with that fact, the longer you'll be spinning your wheels. Once you manage to begin breathing after choking on that bitter pill....we can begin to talk. Until then, send something to go with the olives,thyme and salt.

...gan a she camel can to have a good terapy... why you dont tray...

Forget, for a minute, that Dutch regularly ignores that this is a war that the Arabs declared on Israel. Forget, for a minute, that the PLO, PA, Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, et al, have constitutions calling for Israel's destruction. Lets look at other thinks Dutch ignores. She never posts complaining about Muslims when Copts are killed in Egypt or a Christian is shot dead in Turkey. She never posts when the Iranian President calls for Israel's destruction. I've never seen her call for the Muslim terroists in Indonesia to cease their actions. Jordan's never received a word of castigation for keeping Palestinian refugees in tents at the Iraqi border. Dutch continues to show she has only one goal: To lambast Jews whenever and whereever possible. That is her sole purpose in life. Have pity for her.

That trip to Egypt would be one of the most intresting a person could do.I went myself to the Vallley of Kings and Luxor and it is far out!!Really worth the trip.Regards

Mockery does not change the fact that the issue of attacks from Gaza must be dealt with accordingly.Your view is to do nothing while pursuing a political course that might or might not happen, one whos results might be long in coming if at all.I agree firing at empty spaces is ludicrous,of course the Arabs interpret it as weakness instead of as the warning and chance giving that it is.I agree Israel should take more aggressive action therefore, they should reoccupy temporarily parts of Gaza and turn everything on its head and ruin them totaly then withdraw.Then see the extent of their appetite for more.The gangas are out of control, so be it,one must be able to chew gum and walk at the same time,it is a revelation I had after the first glass of wine, Iwont tell what I was thinking by the fourth.

So the Muslims reverted to feudal conventions just ot oppose the enemey in Lebanon you say.Is that your explanation for it?Lets see if I understood, the Muslim world inherently progressive was forced into dementia as a tool against the western reactionaries is that it? You like many in the west are simply hiding your head in the sand and are living in denial.The Jews should leave Israel and go back where they came from? Why dont you leave the US get off Indian land and go back to where you came from.That you fail to see the difference between the Jews and Israel and europeans and America just tells me so you are so lost to reality that it is impossible to have a lucid conversation with you about it.You have some serious issues hala.

Though some people think that it is Israel that controls America's Middle East policy,the U.S. actually often asks Israel more often than not to carry out its vision. When Condileeza or Bush phones,its the isolationist Right,not the 'loonie left' that vehemently complains about America controlling Israel to the point of shouting 'appeasement!!'

"The United States nixed the draft, proposed by Qatar, calling it unfairly critical of Israel." Always ask why and follow it until you get the answer by looking at the causes fairly, l guess that is what America means to avoid fragmented information being used to perpetuate a wrongdoing due to the sensitized nature. Today according to the Gospel of Christ, is the day that represents when Christ wrestled the key of death from Satan's hand down in hell, the bottomless pit of troubles. Tomorrow the third day is when he conquered death and was resurrected, for a moment take it as a myth and think about it as is. The happenings of those famous three days are the strength of the Christian doctrine without which it would probably not be in existence. Both Israel and Palestine are struggling to get where they only know best, there is one who won the battle in a matter of only three days talk about deadlines, why not borrow a leaf. He had all the technology because he is the author of it but chose not to use it, refer to the hardcore Jew, Peter in the new testament..

to Israeli retaliation? Because the General Assembly is an Moslem colony awash with petro-dollar baksheesh.

What is never clear to me is that, do Israelis assuming (honesty) the God`s given land including the whole Westbank that was occupied after 1967-war. Remember Res. #242 UNSC that ordering Israelis withdrawal from WesBank? If the answer is positive, then we got a real problem here. What I knew was that the West side of Jordan river was not included in what you called "KANAAN" (Bible) or "PROMISED LAND". So, you would have not abandoned the God given land if you share it to palestinians people. There would be no sin on that action. Don` t you think doing justice to non-jews is a part of the greatness of the God`s Kingdom too?. The rest of it, only some technical things to be done, isn`t it?

What is never clear to me is that, do Israelis assuming (honesty) the God's given land including the whole Westbank that was occupied after 1967-war. Remember Res. #242 UNSC that ordering Israelis withdrawal from WesBank? If the answer is positive, then we got a real problem here. What I knew was that the West side of Jordan river was not included in what you called "KANAAN" (Bible) or "PROMISED LAND". So, you would have not abandoned the God given land if you share it to palestinians people. There would be no sin on that action. Don' t you think doing justice to non-jews is a part of the greatness of the God's Kingdom too?. The rest of it, only some technical things to be done, isn't it?

When Israel does wrong, God punishes it by sending it's enemies against it but the worst sin that Israel can do is to give away the land that was given to it in a covenant by the G-d of Israel. Yes, they can be proud and stubborn but that is not the worst sin. It is the abandoning of the land that is worst. This is why! They are the tenants that were appointed by God to hold on to the land because that is the place that G-d will come to set up his Kingdom. In other words, as the Evangelicals say, the land is not theirs to give away. The land is not in Amman, Paris or Hong Kong. It is still in the same place, the most coveted, most important place on the face of the Earth. However, Ahmadinejad thinks that he is a tool to punish Israel somehow. The problem with people like him is they don't realize is that it is a trick played by G-d on Satan and the enemies of G-d and Israel. When Israel is punished, it is refined; more powerful. The tool is crushed afterwards! Witness history! Selah!

Sam The Sham, my man. That's I was talking about. Finally, someone Israelis is talking what in their deepest conscience. That alot better than to blame other conflicts on this world in attemping to avoid some real discussion about ISRAEL, A CHOOSEN PEOPLE, THE GOD OF ISRAEL, QUR'AN, THE PROPHETS, A PROMISED LAND, JERUSSALEM, 40 YEARS AROUND PROMISED LAND ETC....... Please, you know, I'am not in the side of "wipe off of map" Israel. But I can understand too why they said that, because of the stubborness of Israel, because of they are so proud of their position in front of God. Usually, as people who so angry, people that are so proud of themselves, would start making mistakes. That the GOD'S IRON LAW too. Remember the Pharohs of Egypt who are so proud to accept Moses's offering to release Hebrews from his enslavery? This is not a moral lesson, but you just think about that.

Good God, your name says it all--Philly! What makes you and all your ilk believe that you can march into the Middle East and force the natives to think and act like Westerners? That is total hutzpah and insanity. The more you force, the more they will kick and scream. East is East and West is West, and you had better get out of your ethnocentric mode. I agree that changes should take place, like having total equality between the sexes, no veils for women, freedom of speech, etc., but none of this can be forced, it must be done slowly and gently, convincing the natives that they will be far better off in adopting the liberated lifestyle. Can you change the Haredim overnight? History proves that the harder you pressure, the more the natives will resist. Lebanon was a progressive, modern country until the war, then the Muslims reverted to the feudal conventions just to oppose the enemy. It takes time and persuasion, not brute force.

Obviously, the immigrants who have created this state at the expense of the natives, whose lives have been totally upturned, are not welcome in the territory, just as the European settlers were attacked by the native inhabitants of the so-called "New World." So why complain, just get out of the land that has been expropriated and go back to wherever you all came from. Jews are are the most peril in the Middle East than anywhere else in the world.

Thank-you for calling me a Zionist...I am very proud to be one. How sick of you to think we enjoy the evil of the Holacaust...you tell that to my father-in-law who lost 6 brothers and sisters and his parents and all of his aunts, uncles and cousins in that horror of horrors called the Holacaust. I guess you can't stand the fact that we mourn our people and will not let the world forget what was done to them...you call yourself a justiceseeker but you are more of a hate monger.If you despise us so much why bother to read the Israeli paper and waste our time with your vile postings.

America and Israel will always be united. We support you in the U.S. except for a few insignifigant loonies on the far left who are controlled by arab terror groups. I visited Israel with my family some years ago and we are planning a return trip. We loved it! Happy Passover to Israel and all the Jewish people. America thanks you.

Howdy Ibrahim; To continue, I base my opinions on international law as I understand it, not on Israeli or Palestinian propaganda. Like I said to Dutch, part of the West Bank is probably occupied by Israel, but not all of it. In theory, the PA has juristiction over Areas A & B in the West Bank where 97% of the Palestinians in the West Bank actually live. By definition of the legal term "occupation", the responsibilties of the occupying power terminate when that power no longer exercises the "functions of government" in the area in question. What do you think that Oslo was all about? It was to remove Israeli responsibility as the occupying power for 3.9 million Palestinians. I wouldn't go to the West Bank to save my balls. I'm trying to convince my mother to go to Egypt and take a cruise up the Nile. I've always been fascinated with Egyptology.

The US would naturally prefer Israel to the Arab states, because Israel is a secular bourgeois democracy, and the Arabs are totalitarian military regimes. That the Arabs have always found their friends among the enemies of America --- Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union--- is conveniently forgotten by them, but not by us.

Howdy Ibrahim; Recognition by either the Arab countries or the currently stateless Palestinians is a "don't-care" situation for Israel. However, recognition of Israel is a prerequisite condition if the Palestinians wish to have a state of their own. Most certainly, Israel is not waiting for recognition before she acts. In fact, she is inexorably grinding forward with "unilateral convergence" no matter what the Palestinians do. Of course, Israel would prefer that the confict end. War is bad for business and tourism due to its unpredictable nature. However, Israel will not retreat to the Green Line, nor allow East Jerusalem to be the capitol of a futuristic Islamic Republic of Palestine, nor allow 3.5 million Palestinian refugees and their descendants to swarm onto Israeli sovereign territory and take over the state.

Indrajaya, you're making deals you can't deliver on and besides you are fighting against the most powerful force in the universe, the G-d of Israel! Do you think it was possible for such a tiny country to have defeated 22 Arab states trained and armed to the teeth by Britain in 1948 and the rest of the time by the Russians. Ask any Israeli. G-d intervened time and again and will in the future also! Face it! Zionism, the return of God's people to their historical homeland was dictated to the prophets thousands of years before Mohammad stepped foot on this Earth. It's even in the Koran! Others can show you this. No reason why Muslims, Jews and Christians can't be on the same side. Just accept that a Jewish State is here to stay and will never be destroyed! G-d will bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse it! It is written! Selah!

To those who promote peace, I respond in kind, To you, Doris/Dutch an anti-Semite who spews hatred against Jews/Israelis all over the internet, I also answer in kind. The Talmud teaches us "When someone comes to kill you, you must strike first and kill them". Apparently it is working and working well. According to www.mfa.gov.il which documents terror attacks, the number of Israeli deaths are dramatically down this year. We thwart nearly all terrorist actions against us, contain those whose charter calls for our destruction, and move the terror from our streets and backyards to theirs. As long as they aspire to our death and destruction, they will suffer and deservedly so. PASSOVER this year did not have another PARK HOTEL in NETANYA incident. As in Exodus, we will warn the enemy and then bring down Plagues on them. The Fence will continue along with checkpoints, roadblocks, return fire for Qassams, and targeted assasinations against terrorists. Israel will be safe. Too bad!

It is about time the US people establishing a new centrist party between GOP and Democrat. There are none of these party are freed from "Israel Lobby". Lets form another KADIMA in US. Tell me, if there is something I can do about that. Do not hesitate to ask my friend. Please stop being fooled forever by this very powerful Lobby that do not care a bit about American Ideals and American people. On their mind, "American can go to hell for the rest of eternity" but after they have made sure that Israel is save and can "go to heaven for the rest of eternity".

Leave Israel alone on the Armenian genocide issue because, at least the plight of the Armenians was specifically recognised in the Knesset in th '90's. The PA has never recognised the Armenian Genocide so why don't you just go and obfuscate somewhere else?

For whoever questioning Irian Jaya (Papua) and East Timor as excuses for Israel brutalities, consider these: 1. UN (Security Council) never questioning our sovereignty on Papua. Islamic Bloc in UN? There are none Muslim Countries as permanent members of UN Security Concil. Otherwise (this was before "The Israelis Lobby" became so so strong), even US supported Sec.Council Resolution # 242, in 1967, demanding Israel withdrawal to its border before the WAR that year. 2. East Timor is the Past (under Soeharto Regime supported by US and Australia). Soeharto (like Hitler) was gone. East Timor is like Israel now, and we ara more or less Germany. Xanana Gusmoa is fully understand our position. However, we regretted very much to what happened to East Timor in the past. Hopely, Israel can make peace with palestinian )lets it go) just like we are with East Timor. What do you say?

"Their must be a price exacted from the freaks.They are paying heavily for it,they will soon sue for another ceasefire." - Danite Danite, please take another look at my post #223. Hamas is paying nothing, absolutely nothing, for the Qassams. That must be the starting point for any discussion from an Israeli point of view. You can't make progress if the reality of the situation is not clear. (Many more than 4 cups at the Seder?) Israel and the US cutting off contact with Hamas has to do with some ideology on the part of the US (Not quite sure of the Israeli reason). But it has nothing to do with Qassams which actually Hamas is not firing. Israel is not offering anything to Hamas, other than stopping cannon fire on EMPTY places? Who is getting hurt? People in Israel are beginning to realize the laughability of the situation.

Would love to give you a break. AIPAC is the sole reason why US has not recognized the Armenian Genocide. Zionist don't miss a chance to shove the holocaust down everyone's throat while activily working on making sure the Armenian Genocide isn't recognized. Even a recent episode of Evidence went out of its way to spend several minutes on 'holocaust brainwashing' - totally off topic. Zionists work against the recognition of the Armenian Genocide primarily not to share the limelight of holocaust with any other group. Keep on pretending you were the only ones who were done wrong. Your hypocracy is the reason why you are hated by everyone across the globe.

"And American politicians will not side with a minor constituency against a major one." It is about good and evil and if the major was evil and the minor was good the u.s should go with the minor. However one must ask why does our government keep on defending this evil tyranny in Israel, well simple, the zionists control our government. Do you not think that if any politician wanted to help the pa cause he would be shot down by a mossad agent? And speaking of the religious right, that is just a BUSH era, politicians and american presidents are not supposed to include relgion in politics, got it? Yet Bush only granted large amount of money to christain based companies thus making this more of a christain tyranny in the white house. And the reason there will never be a time when the U.S goes against israel is because within our government there are zionists who control everything, its to much info for you but why not look up some history b4 criticize. And not cnn or fox

Make no mistake about it, Bolton is also a racist also.While Israel is killing more and more Palestinians, the US sits by and say nothing. But when an Muslim nation or African nation kills it people, the US calls it a massacre,it's funny how race determines what Americans calls a crime.

I believe that there would be no violence, if Israel withdraws from Plaestine.How much land will Israel conficate before withdrawing, this is the root of all the violence. Israel is not the victim here, they are the occupiers here. A question for Jewish people, if some Arab country were occupying Israel, what would you do?

Jeff- In your posts to Dutch, you seem to imply Israel is waiting on recognition, but in other posts you say Israel doesn't need "Arab Recogntion"... Seargent, you would be far more believable if you were simply honest...and say, Conflict serves Israel's interests...Peace does not. As far as "occupied" vs. "disputed", it appears the Israeli propoganda machine has pulled you in, hook line and sinker. It's very difficult to travel the West Bank and NOT notice it is militarily occupied territory...give it a try sometime.

"She always consideres all arabs terrorists," - ginasuc This is true. "she always defends israels blood thirsty army as doing the job well done since they are killing arabs." - ginasuc If Israel's army was a blood thirsty as you think, then there would be far fewer Arabs in Palestine. I suspect from your post, that in fact you are no more open minded than Gina.

Nor, Omar will America side with England against Ireland. We are a nation of Immigrants Omar. And American politicians will not side with a minor constituency against a major one. In the 1950s the Republican party was home to most Arab Americans and it sided with the Arabs (with limits) such as opposing the occupation of the Suez canal by England and France. Now the religious right views Israel as a precursor of the second coming of Christ (which will involve the destruction of Israel and the extermination of most Jews) and so the Republican party favors Israel if only as the ultimate looser in the return of Christ. It's local politics, not grand morality, that guides a democracy, got it?

The UN was created to accomplish one primary and several secondary purposes. First and foremost it was created to allow the victorious nations in WW II to control the world to their benefit. Second, it was created to allow collective security problems to be addressed. Third, it was created as a forum where minor nations could meet to meet their needs. forth, it was created to allow the world to address world-wide problems. Do not think for a minute that if the first reason is not met, then any of the other reasons will be addressed.

"FREE Gaza completely. Let Israel stop controls of air, sea, and Egypt border (indirectly). An independent Gaza is not protected by Geneva Convention, electricity cutoff is possible response to Qassams. Gaza can be pacified by "peaceful" means." - Ben Gurion You and I understand this subtle point. But letting go of dreams is hard. The hardest infantile dream to let go of is omnipotence. "Start peace talks with Abbas while observing a hudna with Hamas. (Follow my peace plan.)" - Ben Gurion Nice try, but Olmert has declared Abbas impotent. Olmert wishes to be able to have it all his way, he wishes omnipotence. Omnipotence is a childish fantasy. Hamas is winning the propaganda war, and Israel is not willing to accept the fact that something close to the pre-1967 borders is the best it can ever achieve at a cost it is willing to pay.

Gee I was wondering how long it would take for Israel to be involved in the genocide of Armenians. Give me a break.....if you have occassion to be in L.A. go to the Museum of Tolerance and you'll see alot of information about the genocide in Armenia....and that is a Jewish museum. Strange I have met many Armenians and as many as I have met that is how much anti-semitism has been sprouted from their mouths....so if I were you I wouldn't talk so much....get to know your own people and their prejudices and then you can pass judgement on others.... Besides what do Jews and Israel have to do with Armenia?

Lets put aside for a moment that my previous post was alluding to arafat and his boys with regard to terrorism vis-a-vis Israel prior to and post '67. You should have been able to understand that, and you probably did, interesting to note you are going back to 1948. Well enough, why don't you go on and on then, I have no problem with the exercise. Go back to oyur internet site and rifle off some more, then pick another site and list the hevron massacre, gush etzion massacre, jerusalem riots and murders that the arabs are so glowingly proud of. You may also want to add that the stern gang was outlawed by the yishuv and ordered arrested by David ben Gurion,details I know. Who's the hypocrite? you are Dean

I always noticed that gina has no clue what she is talking about. She always consideres all arabs terrorists, she always defends israels blood thirsty army as doing the job well done since they are killing arabs.

It is just out of this world to expect the U.S to take sides against Israel. U.S is well aware of the settlement expansion which violates UN terms, they are well aware of Israels democracy that discriminates against any1 thats not jewish. They are well aware of all the innocent massacres IDF commit to, yet there is no way for as long as we live that THE U.S WILL EVER Call israel out.

Jeff, I cannot go over all your points right now. But as usual I see major disagreements between us. You and I will just have to agree to disagree. I think that's the only way out for now. Beside I am very upset over the great loss of life caused by the Israelis of a people seeking only to be free of it tyranny. It breaks my heart to see such pain being inflicted so callously by Israelis on the Palestinians and then all the congratulatory remarks for the murderers in the IDF and IAF. So goodnight for now, I will write you a note tomorrow....Dutch

Me, I am afraid you can't get away from it anymore the real oppressors are your government's policies against the Palestinian people in the territories. With the army and IAF gladly doing its bidding--the oppression and the killing. But everyone is involved now. There is no more brainwashing anymore except perhaps yourselves. But you are all smart people too and you must see the writing on the wall. It isn't those awful Palestinians but rather those awful Israelis thinking they can occupier Palestinian land and invite foreigners from all over the world to occupy their land and think they can get away with this. Well, you can't and you must do the right thing now. ...Dutch

Howdy Dutch; Seventh, you say that the recent Israeli response to the Gazan rocket fire is a "major" military assault? Look, lady, you wouldn't know a major assault from a minor one. If Israel wanted to launch a major assault on the Gaza Strip, it would involve at least two divisions of IDF and they would reconquer the place within a few days. Eighth, what's this about a "fighting chance"? The object of warfare is to kill enemy soldiers faster than they can kill you. Why give the enemy a break? Are you nuts? "To blunder twice is not allowed in war"--Roman Proverb. Ninth, I am sick and tired of you using words like "murder", "massacre", "unlawful", "aggression", etc. in situations where they don't apply. You would serve the Palestinian cause much better if you didn't exaggerate so much.

FLORIDA AND ADDITIONALLY,TO WHERE I AM: London,all in one hour!I wonder who is up to tricks?I don't mind though,because the posts are favourable to our cause,and not for the benefit of our detractors. Patience Danite...

Why don't they debate the cause of Israeli actions in Gaza? For months Palestinian terrorists rain Qassam missiles on Israeli territory and its civilians and they do nothing. Israel strikes back and the Arab bloc whine like pigs. They have corrupted the UN and made it into a farce. Pity the poor people of Darfur who are slaughtered by Arab militias but nothing is done because the oil is on the wrong side.

Howdy Dutch; To continue with part four, the condition for Israeli withdrawl from portions of the West Bank is: "Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;" In other words, the border must be agreed to in advance, both Israel and the futuristic State of Palestine must recognize each other, and all hostilities must cease regardless of their source. Fifth, you use the word "occupation" as something that is "illegal" or "unlawful" whereas it is a well-defined state-of-affairs in international law and there is nothing illegal about it provided that the occupying power satisfies the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Sixth, in order for an "occupation" to take place, the "occupying power" must exercise the "functions of government".

Ezreal, You can ridicule me all you want it won't change how I feel . I believe the Israelis did launch a major offensive. I read some- where they dropped 300 shells a day and people in the areas were traumatized. http://a-mother-from-gaza.blogspot.com/ Yes, those militants didn't even have a fighting chance like I said agianst Israel's 21st century warfare with their home made weapons. I believe in the military there is something called military ethics which still governs an exchange of fire. But I don't think those millitants really wanted to pick a deadly fight with Israel I feel they were just blowing off steam with their homemade rockets. They knew they rarely caused any damage other than minor disturbances. I don't think they were killers and should have been murdered . I feel that was criminal. Your UN resolution to stop Qussam Rockets doesn't negate the fact Israel is the unlawful occupier in the territories and it needs to get off Palestinian land and out of their lives. Ever since the Jewish settlers came in 1947 --Palestinian lives have been turned into one mightmare after another and it must end. The world won't excuse Israel's unlawfulness anymore It has caused so much pain and we all feel it like Ralph Waldo Emerson said in 1844: "It is a doctrine alike of the oldest and of the newest philosophy, that man is one, and that you cannot injure any member, without a sympathetic injury to all the members". Dutch

Stop being a hypocrite Peter! FYI - the jews invented terrorism way before the arabs. Below are a few of the thousands of documented facts: March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion. March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others. April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul. I could go on and on.....

I think it?s time to expunge Hamas before anymore Jews die. Same with Hezbullah. Then send hellfire up Achmadinejad?s nose so he can go see the Twelfth Imam. Fun & games are over. What?s Bush going to do about it? It?s not his life on the line! As Mideast scholar Bernard Lewis has warned particularly regarding the Americans in Iraq: Get tough or get out. What the hell?s going on? Are Jews going to be arguing Talmud all the way up unto & thru ?the gates of Birkenau? ? Should we fight; shouldn?t we fight? Oy gevalt! There?s a time for peace. But it sure as hell isn?t now. Anyway?Gut Yontif ! ====

Even if Israel was negotiating with Abbas I assume that would take at least 100 years to agree on the time of day.It is well known that groupd like Jihad and other gangs have their reasons for opposing deals with israel and have monetary considerations at heart when they undertake these attacks.Even in the best of situations the gangs would attack,Israel needs to seek a political solution but at the same time they must respond with the army if it works or not.Their must be a price exacted from the freaks.They are paying heavily for it,they will soon sue for another ceasefire.It cannot be ignored, it will only encourage their deluded fantasies further.It is much like the fighting the Mafia, it will never go away or be destroyed but it must be oppossed in any event.Regards hope you had a good passover.Here it was of course the usual `fresser fest``!

Howdy Dutch; In the first place, the Gaza Strip is no longer "occupied" by Israel so let's set that piece of dirt aside for the moment. Second, it was not Israel who was the aggressor in the Six-Day War, but rather the Arabs. In fact, Israel warned Jordan to stay out of it, but the Jordanians attacked Israel anyway and got their butts kicked back to the east bank of the Jordan River and the Dead Sea. Third, since the Green Line was an armistice line and not an internationally recognized border, the legal status of the West Bank and East Jerusalem is somewhat murky. Technically, they should be called "disputed territories", but I will cede the point that some (but not all) of the West Bank is occupied by Israel. Fourth, in order to determine which parts of the West Bank are "occupied" and which ones are not, the following condition contained in UNSCR 242 must be met with first: (Oops I ran out of room--see part II.)

I would really apprecite you publishing my posts.There is nothing wrong with them, I understand about not posting the one about Abejenebad or whatever getting it from monkeys but otherwise they were okay.Thanks

I have never seen anybody else in the world engage in hostile action then run to the UN to stop the response.It is clear the Arabs fear Olmerts plans big time and are trying to keep Israel engaged and tied down in side issues.Once again they are watching the boat leave without them and are standing in the port shooting missles at it to make it stop.If it wasnt so serious they would be a total joke.

Ezreal, There is nothing stupid about doing the right thing and getting off Palestinian land and letting the Palestinians have their back. Six American presidents told Israeli leaders those settlements were illegal and still those foolish leaders went on building. No court in the world can make those settlements legal. And the one man that can buy you a little time is abbas. He is the only man that can legally sign to extend any given settlement but Israel has banished him too. The UN is not doing Israel any real favor in the end by blocking a resolution against the State -- you all know the state is guilty of killing people seeking to be free of your government's tyranny over their ordinary lives. Dutch

as always you have no partner for peace and palestinians are terrorists. and you never ask your selves what kind of neighbors you are??

Since the "disengagement" from Gaza, Qassam fire started as a response by Islamic Jihad to its people being hunted down by Israel in the West Bank. Israel wants Gaza quiet and WB free for all, but the Jihadists don't accept such self-serving rules. The options Israel has (other than the present ineffectual noise games): 1. Agree to a hudna with Hamas, including WB and Gaza. Hamas may be strong enough to impose quiet on the other factions. (I don't recommend this. Hamas will just grow stronger.) 2. FREE Gaza completely, allowing airport, seaport, and unhindered access to/from Egypt. A free Gaza is not entitled to Geneva Conventions protection. Israel can cut off electricity in response to Qassams. 3. Start peace talks with Abbas, have an agreement soon. New elections in PA. The peace party will win. Israel implements unilaterally. (My preferred option.)

The US protects Israel on this issue, or not. A trivial matter. The problem is Israel has no effective policy against Qassams from Gaza. The present response is to fire cannons at EMPTY area. Didn't work to well, so Israel got tougher. Now it fires cannons at EMPTY areas, but in proximity to houses. Recently a child was killed, a mother wounded. If this doesn't stop, there would be clearer situations of war crime. Officers can land in some foreign jail (e.g., British) whether the UN condemns the practice or not. Previously, Israel had the policy of creating sonic booms over Gaza. Not effective against Qassams, one can safely assume, but it scares more people and gets more kids to wet their beds. But there was an outcry (war crime, the usual) and this had to stop. The problem is not the UN; the problem is Israel doesn't know what to do. (Cont.)

Jeff Dear Chap You are as always a breath of fresh air.Such nice feeling whenever I read your posts,I don't respond,no need. I don't want to make you blush,but you are always polite,with ballanced views,consistent too,without being offensive.Now,that may sound like compliment,but I am sincere in what I am saying.Also,I am not the only who thinks so. Now then,don't blush will you. Now Ha'aretz this is for Jeff Northridge #150 Good ole' Jeff...

whew, you're getting way out there even for Dutch, I'm starting to worry about you....no I'm not. The kids in the disco had a fighting chance? The kids on the bus had a fighting chance? The kids in the pizza shop had a fighting chance? They have never given the Israelis a fighting chance in their cowardly attacks. The arabs have been the masters of terrorist attacks on the weakest elements of Israeli society going back to the 60's with their hi-jackings. Yeah, can you believe it, before their lands were "occupied". I realize that none of this worries or bothers you and don't expect you to acknowledge it either which is ok. Everybody will once again see how you're just another bigoted revisionist who just can't accept the fact that little Israel just keeps on surviving and refuses to be pushed into the sea. intifada sucks huh

...for their own self centered ends. Over twice as many UN actions have been taken against Israel, (including resolutions reports publications etc)as against any other nation on the planet. This is a disgrace when you consider just how many actually suffer directly as a result of Israeli actions in the territories when compared to the nations of Congo Darfur Nigeria Syria Nepal China, which alone account for thousands of deaths each and every month from human rights abuses in recent times and quite literally tens, more likely hundreds of millions of individuals suffering on a daily basis the most brutal and blatant forms of human rights abuses. Bolton has simply called time on a practice which the US is no longer willing to fund and tolerate in silence. How ridiculous does it sound when the likes of Dutch, Marlene and others carping on about this stupid one sided resolution. Why should the US, or the Euros accept this tendentious piece of trash from Qatar. How can the UN legitimately pass a resolution condemning Israel for shelling of Palestinian areas without also condemning Palestinian Qassam firing which precipitates such actions.?!

Whether to laugh or cry? That is the question. Personally I have to laugh at the audacity of your posts Dutch. They are without any credence because of your inability to separate facts from hyperbole. Like this, "they didn`t need to launch a major military assault". There is no way you can refer to what has taken place as a "major military assault". More like an escalation from what was a relatively calm situation ie.mainly firing upon empty fields in response to the qassams. And like this. "They didn`t have a fighting chance." Ha Ha Ha! Dutch, it's not like a game of football where one side lends the other a player or two just to even things up! Then this. "all those militants wanted was for Israel to be just and get off their land" They got off their land some months ago. So clearly that's not all they want. You wind it up with "What a tragedy! Dutch" Here I agree. The tragedy is your inability to recognise the obvious. Your posts read like Orwellian doublespeak. You are simply expert at distorting reality to suit your all too obvious prejudices. Dutch, you have become a figure of fun. What a tragedy!

"...all those militants wanted was for Israel to be just and get off their land and recognize their rights." -Dutch That's all they wanted Dutch? I suppose then Hamas's charter to destroy Israel and push the Jews into the sea is just an addendum clause?

There's a Quartet, because the UN forfeited its credibility in international peace-making. The Arabs and their Soviet allies treated the UN as a bourgeois talking-shop, to be cynically exploited and never respected. Now, at the end of the day, it's the Arabs who need a functioning UN to achieve their goals. Only, there isn't one. Boo bloody hoo.

" .....major military assault with constantly pounding and bombardment of the launching sites and militants. They didn`t have a fighting chance. Change militants to mindless terrorists ad "major" to "minor". Poor Palestinians. Israel is not allowing them a free hand to attack its citizens with kassam rockets. This surely must be the lowest level of bad sportsmanship. How dare Issrael even try to deter them poor terrorists. I mean, after all the effort they have put into making these things, then lugging them to the soccer field to launch them. Poor Palestinians. Somebody should complain to the UN and Israel should be severely reprimanded, even punished for doing the unthinkable.

Jeff, If Israel was just responding to Indiscriminate rockets being fired from Gaza they didin't need to launch a major military assault with constantly pounding and bombardment of the launching sites and militants. They didn't have a fighting chance. Remember, Israel is the unlawful aggressors in the Palestinian territories and all those militants wanted was for Israel to be just and get off their land and recognize their rights. And how does Israel respond to this? It murderers them. What a tragedy! Dutch

Why doesn't Israel request an open debate in the United Nations Security Council on Arabs's actions in the Gaza Strip?

Their real opressors are the Arab leaders. Iran, Saudi, Siria, THEY keep them ignorant, THEY keep them poor and brainwashed, THEY keep them in refugee camps. Only Israel and the west have ever tried to help them. Watch them beg for money and get the doors shut on them all over the Arab world. Israel is but a victim of their dirty war. We would love to give them a state, but CANNOT give them a state where terrorism will prevail against us. OUR SURVIVAL is at stake. Anyone who can't see this is simply naive or brainwashed. Everything Pals ever had was because Israel built it for them. But blood money from Iran is worth more to them than decency. That is our reality. THAT has to change.

Yes, Marlene it is amazing what the world is asked to put up with from Israel. Then they have the audacity to talk about their right to exist, while they prostitute themselves on Palestinian land and force them off their roads. Why should anymore care about their rights anymore when they don't care about others? Dutch

Your tax dollars madam,goes straight back into your pockets if you took the trouble to find out precisely it all works.I should take a book on economics,technical advancements,and a bunch of many other things that the U.S.A benefits from good ole' Israel. You madam are an ignorant person sorry to say.Still,it is not too late for some enlightenment on your part.It would enhance your knowledge somewhat. Ha'aretz this is for Marlene#103 she wants to read it...

Howdy S; Yeah, happy Passover and happy Easter to everybody! Not that I'm a Jew or Christian, but what the hell--it's a fun time of year at least in the northern hemisphere especially for the kids who can finally go outdoors.

Hello dear FLOWER Oh yes indeedy! Not one Bolton but a hundred more like him to beat the opposing straglehold the Dictators/ARAB sheiks who do the harm IN THE UN. I hope that Bolton stays his course and continues on our behalf.We need much support. So nice to hear from you,although I sent you all,including the Ha'aretz staff Hag Sameach I will now do so specially to you:HAPPY PASSOVER WITH HEALTH AND PEACE TO ALL. Bless the IDF for their fortitude and the marvelous job they do. Regards. p/s Ha'aretz this is for FLOWER,SPECIAL PASSOVER WISH...

...for their own self centered ends. Over twice as many UN actions have been taken against Israel, (including resolutions reports publications etc)as against any other nation on the planet. This is a disgrace when you consider just how many actually suffer directly as a result of Israeli actions in the territories when compared to the nations of Congo Darfur Nigeria Syria Nepal China, which alone account for thousands of deaths each and every month from human rights abuses in recent times and quite literally tens, more likely hundreds of millions of individuals suffering on a daily basis the most brutal and blatant forms of human rights abuses. Bolton has simply called time on a practice which the US is no longer willing to fund and tolerate in silence. How ridiculous does it sound when the likes of Dutch, Marlene and others carping on about this stupid one sided resolution. Why should the US, or the Euros accept this tendentious piece of trash from Qatar. How can the UN legitimately pass a resolution condemning Israel for shelling of Palestinian areas without also condemning Palestinian Qassam firing which precipitates such actions.?!

Yes, Marlene it is amazing what the world is asked to put up with from Israel. Then they have the audacity to talk about their right to exist, while they prostitute themselves on Palestinian land and force them off their roads. I say to hell with them if they don't change their ways. Why should anymore care about their rights anymore when they don't care about others? Dutch

20:54 Qassam hits sports stadium near Ashkelon, causing damage but no injuries (Haaretz)

Howdy Abu; Hardly anybody in the West (incuding Israel) delights in the casualties of war on either side which is more than I can say for the Islamic world in general and the Palestinians in particular who pass out candy and dance in the streets at the news of the violent death of an Israeli, a Jew, an American, or an infidel at the hands of a sleazo-scumbag, Jihadist, terrorist jerk. Your history lesson of "yesterday`s victom is today`s opressor" is sometimes true and sometimes not. Try telling that to the Native American Indian Tribes from Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego or to the Tibetans or to the Kurds. Actually, there is more hatred for the Israelis on the part of the Palestinians than the other way around. Israeli does not teach her children to hate and glorify the cult of martyrdom like the Palestinians do. Basically, the West would like to see the conflict resolved once and for all, but that isn't very likely when Hamas refuses to recognize Israel.

Jeff, If Israel was just responding to Indiscriminate rockets being fired from Gaza they didin't need to launch a major military assault with constantly pounding and bombardment of the launching sites and militants. They didn't have a fighting chance. How cruel. Remember, Israel is the unlawful aggressors in the Palestinian territories and all those militants really wanted was for Israel to be just and get off their land and recognize their rights. And how does Israel respond? It murderers them all. When they could have arrested them and found another way to deal with their silly homemade rockets that usually cause little more than minor disturbances. What a tragedy. Dutch

You really do not seem to grasp the very basic and simple idea that during a war, be it a war among nations, a civil war, an insurgency war, a guerrilla war, or any other imaginable war, there are two sides to the conflict, and those who enter into the war zone must not interfere or else they lose their protection under the Fourth Geneva Convention. Civilians are allowed into a war zone only as neutral parties. If they enter with the aim of helping one party, even if they have the best of intentions, they might get harmed. Being a voluntary human shield means the person is voluntarily assuming the risk of being hurt. There is no such thing as a peacemaker on a battlefield. Peacemaking is done hors combat. Please, get a grip.

5) Your use of adjectives ("apartheid wall") indicate where you are coming from even before you open your mouth, indicate no originality of thought and prove that you know nothing about either apartheid in South Africa (the country of my birth where I visit often) or Israel (my adopted country where I have lived most of my life). You do not have a basic inkling of what apartheid was and what israel is all about, yet spew your nonsense here because someone or some organization says so. If it is so painful ffor you, I suggest you assuage your sensitivities by refraining from reading Haaretz in the future and go look for another cause. Hopefully one that you are able to comprehend. I've had enough of you playing around with my life here.

"Amazing what the world is expected to do that would never be tolerated anywhere else." Where else would this never be tolerated? On Mars? 1) Read your sentence again ans see houw ridiculous you sound. 2) Don't talk in the name of the world, not even in the name of the USA. Talk in your name only, or do you need the support of the entire world for your silly little notions. 3) In case this support is crucial, hook up with Dutch. I'm sure you will have lots to talk about and you can console each other each time Israel kills some terrorists. 4) Your posts here are totally inconsequential. They provide no solutions, do not strive to create dialogue and constitute a diatribe backed by imaginary authorities and legalities that in fact hold no ground (ICJ). cont'd

BROTHERS--THE CHRISTIANS,AND HA'ARETZ HAS YET TO PUT IT OUT. Yes Kerry,Happy Passover AND Happy Easter to come,and: MAY GOD BLESS US EVERYONE...

It is quite amazing what you write here: "I want no part by my own choice of a racist state that carries ou barbaric crimes, and having the audacity to do it in my name as well." Well, Marlene, talking about audacity, how about this story: There is a middle aged woman, somewhere in posh New York City, who had never witnessed bigotry in her native city, a proper little New Yorker, one who has never visited famous Harlem, or read about race riots occurring in her city in the world famous New York Times, a woman who obviously has never read Martin Luther King Jr.'s warm writings about Israel, even though, if one is to believe her, she participated in the civil rights movement in the South, and now this very same woman claims that the policy of the sovereign state of Israel is carried out in her name. Now, Marlene, I have seen some strange statements made on these forums, but this perhaps tops them all. You have achieved the unimaginable, namely, you have impressed me with your audacity.

I wonder why the UN is not talking about the violence inflicted on the poor PA ARABS by other poor PA ARABS. Why is it a problem when Israel kills her killers but not a problem when ARAB KILLERS KILL OTHER ARAB KILLERS? While the PA terrorists see the UN as their shelter they actually help in ruining it and destroying its so called integrity. By now it a joke that cannot scare Israel anymore. Hamas is complaining about killing? Give me a break. CHAG SAMEACH FLOWER

He will not mind.The answer to that is this:Those three people had no right whatsoever being there in the first place,Exposing while the IDF was doing their job under extremely difficult situation.It is a WAR ZONE we are talking about,and not a picnic for the military! THOSE PEOPLE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES MIGHT BE.I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO KNOW,WHAT GOOD DID THEY THINK THEY WERE GOING TO ACHIEVE.THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED IN MY HUMBLE OPION. DO THESE SO-CALLED DO GOODERS THINK "THE IDF" ARE A MICKEY MOUSE ARMY? GET A LIFE,AND STOP BRINGING THESE STUPID SUBJECT YET AGAIN...

The article says: "The Arab states requested an open debate in the UN Security Council on Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip..." Yes, I'm all for open debate, but look what those filty Arab states want to debate, ISRAEL'S actions, but not the Palestinian terrorist's firing of rockets that prompt Israel's military responses. If you want to debate, let's debate, but let's debate EVERYTHING, not just one side's actions. Why not "debate" the Qassam rocket firings?

Hello S+S. What we need in the UN is one hundred Boltons instead of one hundred verbal terrorists working on behalf of terror and against us and Israel. When it comes to the IDF- what is there to say -the pride of the nation.The best there is. CHAG SAMEACH FLOWER

"Too bad that many Israelis and jows around the world still have the hatred in their blood." If only you had added the words "Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims" after the words "Israelis and Jews", your posting would have been much more effective, and I would have agreed with you 100%. But you fall into the trap of only seeing one side of the story.

I certainly didn't mean those who have family or friends involved when I wrote about "vicariously enjoying" the carnage. But there are those participants who take an extreme position having nothing to lose. I resent being preached to by these, whether right or left. As for getting it from both sides, you're right! That's one of the hard parts about being centrist: The right thinks me leftist, the left thinks me rightist or worse. Moreover, events, as they unfold, make one waver this way or that. You can imagine how I feel after each terrorist outrage - and maybe you can also imagine how I feel after WB settlers make life miserable for the Palestinians. But, as you say, I do want people to face reality, whatever side of the political spectrum they happen to be on, and I'm glad you appreciated that.

dude you reffering to arabs countries that none of them donot want to deal with any pal terrorist.those arab countries they donot want to have any thing to do with you.they hate you.they know how barbaric you are.the only reason they give you money beacuse they are the enemy of israel and those arab countries know very good that how stupid are pals that they donot have compassion for thier kids and send thier kids to stick the bomb in thier ass to kill innecent israelis,to pal families get$5000 reward.wara crazy basterd are these pals

Hi Sandman, It's me, that Palestinian Christian who hasn't experienced Muslim wrath (even though you tell me I did). Since when do you care about East Timor, other than in the context of justifying Israeli Policy? You are quite the dishonest one, aren't you. We need not be enemies, Sandman. All we are looking for is complete freedom and independence from Israeli control...If Israel confronted her extremists, and came back to the table in GOOD FAITH...temperes would cool, less life would be lost, and peace will ultimately prevail.

No matter how the Israeli Apologists slice it, the fact remains millions of Palestinians, probably 99.9% of them, are passive (too passive in my opinion) and have nothing to do with resistance, militancy or terror. And yet, these people are punished to the utmost by the Israeli Machine. To a person who has done nothing, Israel is nothing more than a facist entity. Israel may say they have no other choice, but this is a crock, because we all know Abu Mazen is able and willing to negotiate a final settlement.

Marlene, why do you choose to pull a veil over you eyes and ignore the historical realities. Then again, maybe a veil is perfect for you...you'd fit right in with the millions of Muslims women who are forced to cover up and cannot leave their house without their husband's permission. Do you realize that Arabs in this so call-ed "racist state" have more freedom than they would in any other country in the Middle East?

Liberalism will kill what we do know as Europe. All common sense definitions are distorted, aggression and hate toward the smallest State in this region only because of its different ethnicity are fully justified, Holocaust is denied, rusiian, french and other European fascism is on rise. Muslimization of Europe is overwhelming fact. Liberalism did create perfect ground for all that nonsense. Thank you again, for your wisdom, moron.

Muhamed hello It isn't the feeling of happiness at the death of those stupid youngsters who were sent to do mischief,and cause mayham,that us here are rejoicing.It is the fact that the IDF caught them in time,before they advanced and commit mass murders that we are saying:Thank you to the IDF who averted the killings.That's what is it all about Muhamed dear fellow...

Marlene, Have you ever lived in Israel? Why should the burden of violence in the territories fall solely on Israel? If you study your history you will realize Israel is only in those areas because they were attacked by the neighboring Arab states, and against all odds, won. Instead of adopting the rhetoric of the radical left, why not study the history of the region and reach some logical conclusions. Your invective is so one-sided, biased, and cliché. Do you honestly think anyone will really take you seriously with such outlandish statements? You should be thanking Israel that they are buffering the Christian world from Islamic fundamentalism. Something tells me you'd feel quite different if you had to live next to a population that views killing themselves as fulfilling God's wishes as opposed to educating themselves and leaving peaceful amongst their neighbors.

Hey Sandman, let us not forget the brutal civil war in Achea Province. Many are familiar with the name because this was the epicenter of the earthquake which caused the great Tsunami. Achea Province was decimated. The people there still do not have homes, jobs, proper health facilities and schools. For a generation the Moslem residents of this area have been fighting the Indonesian government for self-determination. There has been some progress as late, but still no talk of an independent state. Thousands upon thousands of Moslem Indonesians have been killed. Where is the UN, the UN is busy playing with their Mental OIL Bloc. As long as the problem is Moslem against Moslem or christian or Jew, then it is not a problem for the UN. The Moment that the Moslems are somehow feeling humiliated then the whole world must suffer. "Boycott Doris (Dutch) for a cleaner safer planet!

For those of you who didn't bother to read the Harvard paper....page 3, "The US has vetoed 32 UNSC resolutions that were critical of Israel, a number greater than the combined total of vetoes cast by all the other Security Council members. It also blocks Arab states' efforts to put Israel's nuclear arsenal on the International Atomic Energy Agency's agenda". Indrajayas conclusions are rather strident, but there is no question as to US favoritism. I do not agree with the second point. The US has gotten something in return - a huge bill for its taxayers, terrorism, international condemnation, disgrace, etc.

this conflict are - elimination of Israel or extermination /after offer to be transferred failed/ of pals. I would like to hear from anyone HONEST opinion about this situation. Do not spin about with typical liberal BS, but propose even hypothetical /but realistic/ resolution for ending arabs antagonism toward Israel. YOU HAVE NONE. Happy Peisah.

Hey Sandman, Could not agree more. What about West Papua, or Irian Jaya? Illegally occupied by Indonesia, thousand of civilians killed and raped, thousands of villages destroyed, gruesome atrocities committed, where is our beloved UN? Indrajaya what is your position on your own genocidal government? Would be great to know...

Yes, Marlene it is amazing what the world is asked to put up with from Israel and I am not putting up with it anymore from them.They need to be fair and square. Daily Israel ignores the humanity of the Palestinian people by bashing them behind checkpoints and barriers; and by placing them under an illegal occupation which violates their human rights and international law; and launch massive violence and military attacks them. During the last five years Israeli Forces have killed almost 4,000 Palestinians and human rights groups say about 1,700 of this number were innocent civilians with no ties to terror. Plus they have injured some 30,000 others with their reckless shelling in the territories. Now Israel has isolsated a whole innocent Palestinian population because they voted hamas into office in a free and fair election. Then Israel's have the audacity to talk and demand their right to exist, Well, what about the Palestinian peoples' right to exist? Shouldn't this be an issue too? I am not taking this selfishness anymore from them. They need to be fair and square. Dutch

Qassams from Gaza started (in post disengagement times) by Islamic Jihad responding to IDF hunting their operatives in the WEST BANK. Israel wanted a delux cease fire, it would operate in WB as usual, but will observe a cease fire in Gaza. The IJ apparently rejects this logic. Israel has a few options (and I exclude the useless present policy of cannon fire): 1. Israel can enter into a hudna which Hamas is odffering. This no doubt will include the West Bank. It is possible Hamas can control the other factions and observe the hudna. (But a hudna would let Hamas get stronger now, and will merely delay Judgment Day, so I don't like the option.) 2. FREE Gaza completely. Let Israel stop controls of air, sea, and Egypt border (indirectly). An independent Gaza is not protected by Geneva Convention, electricity cutoff is possible response to Qassams. Gaza can be pacified by "peaceful" means. 3. Start peace talks with Abbas while observing a hudna with Hamas. (Follow my peace plan.) Best

Daniel That is something which we don't mention ofter enough and time to remind people here of this.And that is:The cowardice of these people.The ones that send the perpetrators(their minions)to commit the atrocities while they remain safe and sound.Those are the people I would put behind bars,and never let them see the light of day...

This is a 'news' story? "U.S. blocks UN Security Council statement slamming Israel. . . "? That is about as much "news" as "Sun came up again today."

It will be unpleasant to be condemned by the UN, but this would not change the fact that Israel has NO effective policy against Qassams from Gaza. Qassams are fired, and Israeli response is to fire cannons at EMPTY spaces. Recently, cannon fire was allowed to approach residential areas, some Palestinians were hurt, and Israel put itself on the verge of a war-crime accusation. Whether the UN condemns this or not, war crimes nowadays can land officers in foreign jails (such as in Britain). Note that firing cannons on EMPTY areas is totally ineffective. The neighbors get fearful, maybe they become sleepless, but on a larger scale it makes no difference. Previously, Israel responded by creating sonic booms over Gaza. At least more people got scared, more children wetted their beds, but this had to stop due to concerns about war crime possibilities. The bottom line: Israel has no effective policy against Qassams from Gaza. What should Israel do? (Cont.)

Meir I commend your responses. Bless your heart and soul,VE AMEN...

Shlomo, Thank you. I really wish that your people would raise this issue to your government, and pressure it to recognize the Genocide. Remember that to be silent is to be complicit, regardless of whether one acknowledges it in the safety of one's own mind.

Howdy Mark; The proposed Qatari resolution would have expressed concern about the "indiscriminate shelling against the Gaza Strip, resulting in extensive human casualties" and called on Israel to halt "military operations and excessive use of force that endangers the Palestinian civilian populations." There are several things wrong with it. 1) The draft does not even mention the Palestinian rocket fire into Israel which caused the retaliation in the first place. 2) The adjective "indiscriminate" is obviously false since the IDF has been doing a great job of only targeting enemy combatants while avoiding civilian casualties as much as possible. 3) The number of Palestinian casualties have not been all that "extensive" and 78% of them were terrorists. 4) The phrase "excessive use of force" only goes to show how much the Qatari delegation doesn't have a clue about what those words mean. If you want to see "excessive use of force", wait until Israel reconquers the Gaza Strip.

Hello Ronnie Gosh,you were early,weren't you?First on the response.Chirpy charlie too. Well,is that your deduction? A bit too soon for optimism I fear.I say,"piano piano" catchy monkey.Them,not our people I was referring to. Regards to you Ronnie...

Israel denies the Armenian Holocaust, and actively so. The Muslim world, and especially the Arab world has long recognized the Armenian Holocaust. Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc. + Iran, they have all recognized the Armenian Holocaust. Defenders of Israel always claim that Israel does this for political and strategic reasons, but Israel surely does not need Turkey. Plus, would it be right to justify Iran's denial of the Jewish Holocaust by saying it is for political reasons? Denial of the Armenian Holocaust is racist and inhumane. But denial that there is denial is even worse.

Dutch has in mind the mass murder of Israelis and Jews she would like to commit if she had half the chance.Freud called it projection thats what she is doing.She hungers and drools for Jewish blood notice how she jumps all rabid and sweaty to call for our blood whenever trouble starts?Regards

"thats one reason why UN is regarded widely as a useless place, and I think its soon gonna see its end like the League of Nations. " What's sad and deadly ironic, is that the Arab bloc is the reason for the fact that human rights, children's rights, women's rights will not advance in Islamic countries because they themselves keep all the focus on supporting Palestinian terrorism. Worse, by legitimizing Palestinian terrorism, they cultivated a tolerance among Muslims to legimize Islamic terrorism directed towards Muslims.

They might need or want to live in a fantasy world where their are no consequences to their actions and think that they will be able to abuse of the international sysytem as they have so often in the past , but the facts are violence against Israel will call for retaliation.Once again the Arabs have only themselves to blame for their miseries.They are not too bright sometimes arent they?

I agree with your point and have made it myself elswhere: how can the Palestinians be expected to do what IDF tanks and IAF helicopter gunships could not do. What I ask here is why Abu Quisling isn't doing anything whatever. I haven't seen any stories of him deploying the security forces under his control. There was a story the other day about Palestinians chasing away Qassam launchers, but it was civilians, not security forces who did it. Why does the West continue to kiss Abu Quiisling's groybe tochis when he isn't doing anyhthing for Israel's security?

What's your aversion to balanced text in UN resolutions? Palestinians are proud of their suicide bombers and qassams aren't they? Why shouldn't the Arab countries include mention of Palestinian terrorists attacking Israel in these resolutions they draft up to demonize Israel?

"England is full of jew hating a-holes." That's always your answer, isn't it Dror? Anyone who criticizes Israel is a Jew-hater. It saves you having to explain away all the many crimes and atrocities of the terrorist State of Israel. "I hope a divine reckoning comes swiftly for all of you in England." May Israel receive the justice it so richly deserves.

Marlene, Right to exist means no being "wiped of the face of the earth" like Iran states regularly that it wants to do to Israel. Didn't you hear? Israel has enemies that want to destroy it, including Hamas. Do you just ignore Israel's problems? Michael

Do they think everybody is buyable, stupid or fearful of them? Of course this resolution was biased and anti Israel.At least Israel has the US which is not afraid of the Arabs.That the Arabs think they can engage in consequence free wiolence against Israel then use the UN to tie Israels hands to all the better attack it is a testamony to the `spoiled brat`and childish mentality that they have.Well done IDF keep up the good work.If the Arabs are concerned about civilian casulaties they have only to stop attacking Israeli civilians and so spare their own retaliation.Let them whine and pound away.Hag Samaich le Tzahal!

I truly feel sorry for those who feel happy for death and killing on both sides. It is unfortunate that some people lost their human values and forgot history which tells us that time will change since yesterday's victom is today's opressor. Too bad that many Israelis and jows around the world still have the hatred in their blood.

The article says: "The United States had argued for its long-standing belief that any such statement mention both sides' obligations under the road map and cite Palestinian attacks against Israel as well." At least there's some sanity at the UN. To condemn Israel but not Hamas' refusal to stop the Qassam rockets is the same kind of "double standard" the Arabs accuse the US of. I guess "double standards" are fine as long as they favor the Arabs. Typical Arab hypocricy.

Interesting position that you put yourself in, getting it from both sides of the fence so to speak. Being on the right side of the spectrum I'm totally opposed to the term "settler". Gush Etzion was part of the yishuv and I see nothing wrong with going back to it, but I digress as you certainly know the history as well if not better than I do. However, I do agree strongly with your post in that you were pointing out reality, whether people here want to realize it or not. The one thing I would like to point out is that the comment about sympathisers who can enjoy vicariously is a bit out of line. We who have family and friends who are directly implicated by living on either side of the "line" and are presently or soon to be serving in the IDF do realize or certainly are concerned about the positions and stands that we take.

The Indonesian army of occupation of East Timor has killed one thrid of population of East Timor. During the Indonesian occupation of East Timor (1976-2006) according to the U.N. 18,000 were killed in combat while 134,000 were killed by disease and the failure of the Indonesian government provide even basic humanitarian aide in form of food or medication. While your Moslem government in Indonesian, Indrajaya, causes a appalling genocide in East Timor of Christians you have gaul critize others. What pile of horse manure.

News Release by The Zionist Organization of America November 21, 2005 New York - The Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) is pleased to announce that U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton will be the Keynote Speaker at the annual ZOA Louis Brandeis Award Dinner. He will also receive ZOA?s Defender of Israel award??.

Are you kidding me!!!! Who is shelling first, Who wants the destruction of Israel, Who talks with a forked tongue, The PALS are so consumed with violence and hatred they can't see straight. Israel should cut off food, water, electricity, jobs, EVERYTHING they give to their enemy and destroy all of the stupid EVIL Pals and end it once and for all. What does the PA give Israel??? Nothing but heartache.. Islam is a stolen distorted disfunctioning version of the Jewish and Christian Old and New Testaments. You try to steal that just like you try to steal everything else. Enjoy your eternity in HELL...

"Palestinians never see bodies with limbs missing, heads missing - they don`t have the smallest clue what pools of blood look like. And certainly Palestinians are never exposed to the grief and anguish of having family members slaughtered and murdered" The ones that have suffered this and the ones that have been exposed - repeatedly - are no longer so enthusiastic about their suicidal war heroes. Only you rarely get to hear about them, because it won't lok so dramatic on BBC-TV.

or the two previous parts of the series? (For some reason, Ha'aretz saw fit not to publish part 3, which gave the background to part 4). Anyone who supports Palestinian terror, whether he be Palestinian or not - and especially if he is Palestinian - has to be ready for the bloody results, which may affect his family and himself. And, conversely, anyone who supports the idea of a Greater Israel, whether he be a settler or a settler sympathsizer, has to be ready for much spilt Israeli blood. The settlers will feel this on their own flesh, the sympathizers in New York and Joburg can "enjoy" it vicariously. So you answer: the Palestinians will commit acts of terror whatever Israel does? True. But anyone living beyond our Zionist, imperialist, colonialist, jew-banker (whatever you choose, depending on your blend of anti-Semitism or "liberalism") security barrier/apartheid wall (again, whatever you choose) has a greatly increased chance of suffering a "brave, heroic act of liberation".

The Indonesian army of occupation of East Timor has killed one thrid of population of East Timor. During the Indonesian occupation of East Timor (1976-2006) according to the U.N. 18,000 were killed in combat while 134,000 were killed by disease and the failure of the Indonesian government provide even basic humanitarian aide in form of food or medication. While your Moslem government in Indonesian, Indrajaya, causes a appalling genocide in East Timor of Christians you have gaul critize others. What pile of horse manure.

The various media talking heads refer to suicide bombers as militants and killers as gunmen. They do not call them terrorists because the left wing media of the majority of democartic countries cant stand the thought of these killers being called what they really are. The media owners arew by themselves very left of centre, and the appeal of a freedom fighter is what causes them to cowtow to these groups. IN war th\e truth is the first casualty. In the media, ther is little if anythin g that resembles the truth. especially from the BBC.

Since time immemorial Arab murderes have sheltered amongst civilians, abused the neutrality of ambulances to ferry arms and bombers, have transported concealed weapons in the cars of priests, committed foul acts of agression against innocents and then squealed to world bodies for protection whenever there was any kind of response from Israel. In 1948 they repeatedly used U N truce decisions to rearm and regroup. In 1967 their hides were saved by the U N after they launched what was intended to be a Jewish genocidal war. Same in 1973. In Beirut in 1982 they fired fom atop hospitals, from amidst school playgrounds. In Jenin they hid amongst the civilian population and on and on. Witness Moussaui's surreal outbursts in his U S trial. On one hand he laments that his trial is unfair .On the other he wishes he could kill more Americans. As the old saying goes, the more things change, the more they stay the same

Kudos to you Mr. Bolton. I am so ashamed that my FORMER party, the Democrats, fought your nomination. You're a beacon of rationalism at an organization otherwise known for it's failure to act against dictatorships, violence, and genocide. We U.S. Jews appreciate the work you are not only doing for Israel, but for free people all around the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kudos to you Mr. Bolton. I am so ashamed that my FORMER party, the Democrats, fought your nomination. You're a beacon of rationalism at an organization otherwise known for it's failure to act against dictatorships, violence, and genocide. We U.S. Jews appreciate the work you are not only doing for Israel, but for free people all around the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!

S. I feel it is morally wrong to congratulate the murder of Palestinians oppressed by Israel daily. Indeed, I feel if Israel wasn't unlawfully occupying their land and violating their Human rights, I doubt if there would be killing at all. Thus you should be encouraging a dialogue and the recognition of the Palestinians human rights if you really want to save your friends in Israel to be safe. Violence cannot achieve justice it only causes more violence and eventually the destruction of both people as Martin Luther King notes below. Dutch P. S. Martin Luther Kng , Jr. Violence as a way of achieving peace is both impractical and immoral. It is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in the destruction of all. The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. It is immoral as it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding; it seeks to annihilate rather than convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hate rather than love. It destroys community and makes brotherhood impossible. It leaves society in a monologue rather than a dialogue. Violence end by defeating itself. It creates bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyer. Martin Luther King, jr. (Thanks, Dutch)

It is sad to see innocent children having to suffer this war. I have read a few people commenting on the terrorists using their own families and people as human shields. Which is what they have done. I have read that these people should shed themselves of these monsters. That is where the problem lies. there is no way that a women and child that force a maniac with a gun and the mindset of a dog from their home. Sadly Palestinian society has come to be run by gangs and mafias. While many people find it difficult to eat well, these dogs are well fed fat smiling killers. Hamas is also led by a bunch of fat-boys. all smiling while their people die. It is disgusting. they shoot off rockets and flee to the confines of their homes and hide under the skirts of their wives and daughters. One could say that they cannot stand face to face with the might of the Israeli army, and this is ture. which means they should give up and try to come to some sort of compromise.

FOR HOW LONG USA GONA PROTECT THE (ZIONISTE,CRIMINALS,KILLERS,TERRORIST=THE JEWS)

Go cry to Mommy, a bunch of silly Arab cry babies... instead of dealing with your terrorist thugs, and evil dictatorial regimes, all the Arabooshi can do is complain to UN. Let the Arabs cry... Meanwhile, Israel will continue to grow, build, expand its economy, and strengthen the Jewish nation.

You go ride the bus and wonder if this is your day, go sit in cafe's all day and keep your eyes peeled, go to the malls,restaurants. Go pick the body parts out at the exploded market,bus or restaurant. Go with some jews to visit Joseph's tomb, go visit kever rachel. Go make a wrong turn and have your body torn apart. Stand and watch the blood-thirsty mob waving their blood-filled hands for the cameras. See what happens if you're of the wrong religious background and you drive into shechem. A taste of our own medicine??? You disgust me with your pontificating, when the arab league has from day one called for no peace,no recognition and no negotiation. You want to feel bad for the arabs in yesha, point your finger at the arab league.

Howdy Dutch; The killing of 18 Palestinians (at least 14 of whom were enemy combatants) in the Gaza Strip in at least 5 separate incidents hardly rises to the level of "mass murder". Israel is simply responding to indiscriminate rocket fire coming from the Gaza Strip in a measured and restrained fashion and at the same time doing a splendid job of minimizing collateral damage. The Gazans cannot shoot rockets into Israel and expect to be immune from the consquences of their hostile actions. It's really stupid to be firing rockets from the Gaza Strip which is completely unoccupied by Israel. Ben Gurion disagrees with me on the last point, but Article 6 of the Fourth Geneva Convention says "the Occupying Power shall be bound for the duration of the occupation to the extent that such Power exercises the functions of government in such territory...." Since Israel has no "functions of government" in the Gaza Strip, it is unoccupied. An economic blockade is a different thing entirely.

And also Marlene, Are you aware that there has been quite a bit of shelling killing civilians in Afghanistan. It's a result of the Taliban sending its own version of Qassams into the buildings. But, of course, that's permissible.

Maybe you`d like to spend some time living in a racist state as a second-class citizen, or preferably living under a brutal occupation where you`re collectively punished based on your identity only. In THAT case Marlene, you'd better leave the US, because blacks have never been on par with whites and are denied equal access to jobs and housing, unlike Israel. And, by the way, you think that American money is donated because you're ignorant of the fact that much of it is in the form of loans that Israel repays and sometimes has to modify or scrap trade deals to appease the US. And as far as tearing down houses go, not everyone agrees with that, so why don't you come here and build the houses. You may pass Jill Carroll going in the opposite direction.

Even G-d revealed himself. I believe the commemoration of that is any time now. Maybe its a time to reveal possibly one or more letters or more of your names to distinquish yourselves by not only your ideas (which in this case are the same) but also your handles. It would show a little more commitment,dont you think? A little more clarity. Look Ok one can call him or herself a SMALL s,ok????

Here we go again. Lies and more lies from the Palestinians. Do you all remember the "Jenin Massacre". What a pack of lies the Palestinian PR sent out. Thank goodness the rational minds in this world saw thru the chirade and lies. Now the Palestinian terrorists are hiding amongst the civilian population and firing rockets into Israel and expect that there will not be any reprisal because "civilians" could get hurt and the moralist world will condemn Israel for any retaliation. To that I say, bombs away. Get them where ever they hide. Eradicate the terrorist structure and maybe the non terrorists will get the message. "Do not let terrorists hide in your midst". You will be in the middle with no place to hide.

thanks.

"The whole world must be wrong if the USA sees it different with Israel wagging it`s tail. A dog and his boss". Wait a minute here, sir. What do you mean "Israel wagging its tail"? The reality is otherwise, Israel iss... the BOSS. It is doesn't matter what will happen to US in the process, "the Israel Lobby" will make sure, that Israelis existence would be secured at the end. This is the genius of this "lobby".

Where I come from telling Jewish people they should embrace Christ as the savior is plain Anti-Semitism.

it is still nice to recognize that US is not yet vanished as the friend of Jewish state. Although liberals of US and Canada and other parts of the world (together with drunken whore Russia) are trying to destroy remains of the world normality, there is a bit of hope in practically hopeless world future.

The whole world must be wrong if the USA sees it different with Israel wagging it's tail. A dog and his boss.

The vilolence will not end. This is only the birth pains. Nation will rise against nation and people against people. Just as the lightening strikes from the east to the west, so will be the coming of the son of man. He has come and offered his body and blood. Receive him now, don't delay. Ask Christ to forgive you of you sins. I love you all. God bless.

Whereas most of the world needs the Arab OIL Bloc for something, whether it be the French needing their votes to keep their soldiers in many a diamond producing African nation, or the Brits who depend on the Moslem vote to be voted into power, or the chinese who will lick anybody for a buck, the Yanks don;t really need anybody. The world needs the american market, yet the world does not seem to buy American. America gets seventy percent of its oil from non-Mideast sources. As well the Americans are still the only country to even pretend to stand for democracy and human rights. sure the Left hates America and spreads lies about it. But America remains the main destination for much of the world, including Canadians. The green card is still as if not more attractive than a ticket to the World cup of Foorball. Thank you America for continuing to be a good friend. and probably the last bastillion of courage in a flacid and importent world.

YES INDEED,KUDOS TO THE IDF!!! By the way S,I was here first,and I am the first "S" I don't mind you using my title realy,but it does confuse the issue...

Hi Dutch! I honestly cannot fathom your reasoning or your position. I really can't The fact is that Israel withdrew from Gaza. The fact is that if there were no missiles coming from Gaza, there would be no IDF shelling. There never has been. You are wrong that Israel doesn't support a two state solution. Both Sharon and now Olmert have gone on record for the two state solution In response, Hamas' position is still to wipe out Israel. I also get the feeling that because not that many Israelis have died due to the shelling their reaction is excessive. Are you saying that they Israelis have to wait until a couple of hundred are killed before they have the right to go after the missile launchers?? Is that what you are saying??

Since when does a few terrorists here and there add up to 'mass murder'? No wonder you and your friends spread lies, you can't count as well as not being able to read any history.

All I can say is thank goodness your country's new leaders are alot smarter and democratic then you. Tell us my friend, how many people were killed in the war in Ache Province? How many thousands, not hundreds but thousands. Moslems slaughtering Moslems. Where was the huge and moral Moslem and Arab Bloc at the UN? Where? why were no resolutions passed against Indonesia? Seems weird doesn't it. Your country walks Chinese off the cliffs of Bali in the hundreds of thousands, and the Moslem Bloc at the UN is silent. Over a million are slaughtered in Ruanda and the Moslem Bloc is quiet. Now they are being murdered by the hundred of thousands in Darfur, shhhhhhh, the Moslem bloc has not interest. But oh my, a child is killed in Gaza and the who humiliated Arab world plays with its Bloc and sets out to condemn Israel. You are a bloody hypoocrite sir, your pain is pure theatre. Go help the East timorese, cleanse your soul!

Funny you, when I posted my responce, this was to the sensor ( KGB) , not for general consumption, But of coarse, by all means publish anything you want, I like it much better , than to censor your loyal readers, like myselves...oops, misteK To all wonderful sensors of Haaretz, YOU ROCK! Thanks and Happy Passover!

Why don't you do something? go the Gaza and help the palestinians instead of talking. Your talk of being "Proud Turkish Soldier" don't cut it.

Boycotting Doris (Dutch) has become a Greeen issue for me. With all the garbage and pollution on this planet, but simple easy step to containing the green house affects is to stop replying to Doris. Her filth is bad for the Planet as well as humankind. I think this will be censored by Haaretz as well.

Hey buddy you don't seem to have a problem when Palestinian terrorists kill innocent Israeli civillians. Ahhhh, see how the world works. You can sit in lovely Ismir and judge us. but when someone points a finger at you, then oh my, how dare they. I am against Kurdish terror as well as Palestinian terror. I am not against a Palestinian state, and I also feel that the Kurds, who have a history of statehood diserve one as well on what is now deemed Turkish soil.

anybody with any knowledge of what is going on around the world outside of the "top fashion" spots ie Pals, Pals and Pals (nobody else gets a look in)....will know how much evil there is ... the weak suffer such cruelty, savagery and evil. if you dont know how much suffering there is out there ..i am on the one hand happy for you....but please for all our sakes support the IDF and keep them strong so that we are kept safe. Without the IDF we have nothing but death and suffering before us.

Indrajaya wrote: "What happened in this "US blocks" only confirms two things that the profeesors from Harvard recently wrote about "The Israel Lobby": 1. The only country on this world that its first foreign policy priority is to protect other country. 2. The US got nothing in return for its full protection upon whatever Israel has done in Middle East." No, the only thing the "US blocks" action confirms is: 1. The US believes in fairness 2. The US prefers rational thought, rather than shrill bombast based on animosity. The Pals attack Israel with rockets, and the IDF responds with artillery shells, and with far more restraint that the Pals exhibit with their indisciminate rocket attacks. What is so hard to understand? The US position is correct, and the rest of the Third-World idiots in the UN can go pound salt. Salaam alaikum, Harry

I always say that people who think in blocks are Blockheads. But institutions that vote in Blocks are Lego Block Heads The U.S. backing Israel is a neccessary Block.It is defence against or those other silly UN blocks. The whole institution is silly though neccessary but for dialogue only. There is no need for votes in the UN. Where we need to vote is a new forum.A forum created for ONLY democratic countries.This is where countries of Europe,the US and Canada and any other democratic countries go to discuss and to VOTE. here we wouldnt need so much in the way of blocks countering each other but real issues,real discussion and real resolutions. The UN should stick to Lego and give every member a different color of block to play with,a microphone and a little prestige,and leave the real resolutions to a more mature forum.

Of course the Arab controlled UN has no interest in the "extensive casualties" in Africa a/k/a genocide, or the nuclear threat posed by Iran. No, a little country forced to defend itself is the real problem facing the world. It is the same old tired garbage.

to no 60.MY LATE FATHER OF THE JEWISH FAITH AND MANY CHRISTIANS AND ARMENIANS LEFT SYRIA IN AROUND 1896 AND EARLY 1900'S BECAUSE THE WERE BEING PERCECUTED BY THE SYRIANS,AS WELL AS THE JEWS. .THEY KILLED MANY ARMENIANS, AND ARMENIAN PEOPLE ARE GOOD PEOPLE,I KNOW MANY ARMENIANS.

to Murray you are right we have the best intelligence in the world, in Israel. Murray the beauty of it is, is Israel knows before things happen quite often.

Typical arab guff - indiscrimate brutality of Israelis against poor suffering palesinians. Where is it mentioned that the recent shelling is in RESPONSE to qassam fire that has continued unabated despite Israel's withdrawal from Gaza? As for 'indiscriminate', I think the IDF military machine can put shells where they want to. 'Excessinve use of force'? Well, shelling fields didn't seem to work so this is a just escalation of response. I don't think the pals really understand what a 'heavy hand' is. If the IDF had an arab mentality rather than a Jewish one than we'd be witnessing another Hama. The pals should count themselves lucky that they're not up against the Syrians, then they'd have cause to complain about brutality.

Freedom fighters and oppressed people do not kill women and children by the THOUSANDS. Kendi du?sen aglamaz

GOD BLESS YOU OBSERVER AND A HAPPY PESSAH,TO YOU AND ALL YOUR FAMILY. DANNY

israel never asked and will never ask anyone's permition for retaliation, period.

If knowledge is power you are very weak. "America never takes a stand. It simply rubber-stamps the usual Israeli request for a veto." The US usually does not use it's veto and most of the time has allowed very hostile resolutions through, whereas the British almost always support those one-sided resolutions. "And certainly Palestinians are never exposed to the grief and anguish of having family members slaughtered and murdered. Sure, Palestinians live in cloud cuckoo land." Yes they do live in cuckoo land because the IDF has never used anything like a fraction of it's power. If they did then and only then would they understand. The IDF could act the UK has in Iraq, but with a lot more power since the Royal Army is basically a joke. But we are humane and won't act like you at all.

What happened in this "US blocks" only confirms two things that the profeesors from Harvard recently wrote about "The Israel Lobby": 1. US is the only country on this world that its first foreign policy priority is to protect other country. 2. The US got nothing in return for its full protection upon whatever Israel has done in Middle East.

I think it is good that you have come to accept what your nation did to the Armenians. Now you are faced with the Kurds who you have kept down for over a thousand years. Everyday your army kills them and keeps them from seeing an independent Kurdistan. These are a people with a geographical history and location, a language, dress and culture. Give them part of eastern Turkey. You have a very large country and most Turks would never feel the loss of a few thousand square miles in the east of the country which could hook up with Northern Kurdish Iraq and northern Kurdish Iran. Let the ancient state of Kudistan once again come into being. why should they be forced to suffer under the Persians and Arabs any longer. While you are at it. you might as well apologize to the so-called Palestinians. The Ottomons and Turks ruled this region again for over a thousand years, yet you never saw fit to recognize them as a distinct nation and presence. Give them part of Turkey!

I am amaze why you refuse to post my responce. There are many posts which are insultind and really bad taste and you don't have a problem to post . Please let me know the reason. r2004la@yahoo. I checked your guideline and do not see a reason. Please explain. Ron

Marlene spun this yearn: "...yet the insistence of Israel`s right to exist as a racist state must be recognized. Amazing what the world is expected to do that would never be tolerated anywhere else." Anywhere else? Indeed...How about the existence of Saudi Arabia...huhg?...how about the existence of Pakistan? Huh? We could go on and even mention the eixstence of Palistine? When has it ever existed? How about between 1948 and 1967? do you know your history Marlene? Who kept Palestine from coming into existence, the jews? Really? Marlene, the Pals had a chance to form a state in 1936, in 1939 and in 1948. for some reason they did not take the Brits or the UN up on it. why? I believe that it is because they had never existed as a people or a state. You may call me racist, but that would be insincere. Think of me what you would like, but you seem to know nothing of history, and less of the Palestinians or whatever you chose to call them.

It only confirms that US is one of those who has backbone to say things as they are in this issue. They are very much right - if there was only one sided condemnation of Israel, without even mentioning palestinian actions that lead to use of force, it serves only palestinian propaganda. Nothing else. if such statement were issued, it would practically mean that palestinians have right to ashoot their rockets into Israel and kill civilians, whereas Israel has no right to do anything. That of course would be completely insane...

Even if Oil runs out, there are many issues in the UN that are debated that have nothing to do with the middle east. It is interesting to look at the politiking that takes place. It is nice to see that the UN has become a country club of sorts where the sons and daughters, cousins and uncles of third world leaders can gather, participate in food for oil schemes, put on lavish parties and basically fill their noses and party on their individual countries expense accounts. Nothing gets done at the UN because most of the participants are useless and not qualfied for running the planet. As long as countries send their fat, stupid and useless to New York, then the biggest issue at the UN will remain unpaid parking tickets, widespread cocaine use and creeping acceptance of third world morality. It is important to remember that Syria, of all countries, sits on the UN Commission for Human Rights! Now isn't that cute. Boycott Doris (Dutch) for a Better Planet.

"The United States had argued for its long-standing belief that any such statement mention both sides' obligations under the road map and cite Palestinian attacks against Israel as well" Under no peace agreement does Israel have the license to mass murder. That should be the arab charge here. Israel is a mass murderer. Shame on Israel and shame on the UN they are covering each others crimes against humanity. The Arabs should push this alll the way. Israel is a criminal state practicing state terrrorism against Palestinians wishing to be free of its tyranny Dutch