Anti-Israel group could cost Toronto Gay Pride parade its funding

As a gay American Jew, I am outraged by Flanders and her group of antisemitic goons! Why doesn't she start a group targeting Arab and Iranian antisemtism and homophobia, Arab, Iranian, and other Islamic governments have murdered scores of gay men and women in their countries and actively lobby international organizations against ANY tolerance of gay rights in their countries or anywhere else for that matter. Flanders should be sued and- more preferably, given a 1 way ticket to Gaza! see if she likes it there!

Since Toronto is using public funds to fund this parade, then every tax payer is entitled to march in that parade! Anti-war marches in the USA often include people and signs from all walks of American life - gays, blacks, anti-war activists, students from all movements, etc, etc. If you want to make your march exclusive to one group, than that group should fund its own march and not use tax-payer money!

israel is now facing a grave threat : enemity of gays and lesbians . if gays and lesbians world-wide were united , they then would pose a grave threat to israel and israelis all over the globe .

compared to let's say being a Jew in an Arab country? Iraq, with our help, wrote a new constitution that gives all emigres the right of return - except for Jews of course. I suppose they're worried that the 135,000 Jews they expelled after 1948 might want their property back (there are a total of $300 billion in Jewish claims, and land claims for 5x the area of the State of Israel). Current estimates on the number of Jews left in Iraq vary between 1 and 6. Israel isn't perfect, but its WAY ahead of whatever is in 2nd place in the ME.

what you think does not matter to enlightened nations. We will march for gay rights and we will fight Quaia wherever they hide.

stick to things you know - or dont know. Israel has lots of gay friends in Toronto. Im afraid its largely the far left who support Quaia. they will be finished soon. Give us a little more time.

we love Harper--- its about time Canada supports Israel. Long overdue !!!!! Are you upset that many nations are moving to the right ? You should be.

As a gay, jewish woman I want the focus of my gay pride parade to be on the strides that we have made in respective societies. I do not want our parade to be turned into a battleground for people's agendas. This parade is meant to focus on our unity as gay people from all walks of life. No group should be so priviledged as to take that away from the whole. So keep your anti-Israel sentiment elsewhere and let's provide a united front to work on the issues that are important to us all, i.e.-equality for gays first and foremost. There is a time and a place for this elsewhere. Don't we have enough to struggle against, why fight each other?

"As to why everything comes back to this conflict my personal guess it`s because the occupation has been going on for so long and Israel shows very little interest in ending it. " Is that why the Palestinians have rejected every offer of peace and an independent nation which has been offered to them? Israel has shown a willingness to compromise on territory and on ROR. Why haven't the Palestinians demonstrated this willingness to compromise? You claim the "occupation" has gone on for so long. However, the Arab attempts to wipe the Jews out of as much territory as possible has gone on much longer.

I agree that there is very little connection between a pride parade and the Palestinian situation. And I don't think that it really is the right forum for protest against Israel's actions. I was responding to all those posters who thought that the people in QuAIA automatically should be staunch Israel-supporters. Those who didn't think that the protests were ill-suited for the parade but that the protesters, because of their sexual orientation, were ill-suited for protesting. BTW in the previous version of the article we could read that there was a tradition of political activism in the Toronto Pride Parade so it doesn't have to be the wrong forum after all. As to why everything comes back to this conflict my personal guess it's because the occupation has been going on for so long and Israel shows very little interest in ending it. Plus it gets lots of news-coverage since Israel is an open democracy and the area is relatively safe for journalists.

you asked : "Why does everything in the world have to come back to the Israel/Palestinian conflict?" because if this conflict is not solved, there is no hope for any other conflict in the world to be solved. the pledge of the Palestinians is biblical. end the occupation.

seeing how being gay in the Arab world and the Muslim religion is looked down on, the participation of anti Israel groups in the gay parade just shows that the Palestinians are the one's with the justified cause.

zvi, you obviously don't understand Pride. It isn't just a celebration... all members of our community come together with the very many different points of view and march... anarchists, queer geeks (what does being a geek have to do with being gay - just as much as been against Israeli apartheid), queers for peace, queer teachers, queers who like to go nude, queers who study at such and such university, queers for vegetarianism... if you don't know OUR parade... don't tell us what it is about. You just sound ignorant.

Not on his watch. Besides, it's un-Canadian to make a fuss, and that includes being caught in the middle of someone else's passing contest.

And is this the official position of the City of Toronto?

#65, it has lots to do with gay rights, they are hitting 2 birds with one stone. there is nothing wrong with showing solidarity with the pals. if they were showing solidarity with isaerl I'm sure there would be no problem right?

Homosexuality may be legal in Jordan, Iraq, and the PA, but most homosexuals still stay closeted even from their own families. With the rate of "honor killings" in those countries I don't think there'll be any gay pride parades in any of them soon. Besides, what does gay pride have to do with the Israeli/Palestinian dispute? Can't people EVER hold a demonstration or parade about ANYTHING without dragging that issue in? It's starting to smell.

#49 is so right. Even "liberal" Muslims are reluctant to extend any rights to homosexuals, and most homosexuals who are Muslim remain closeted for fear of being killed.

Anyone should be able to express their opinion in any forum in Canada, whether you are pro Israel, pro Palestine, or pro anything. You can be gay and pro Israel and gay and anti Israel and you are FREE to express your opinion. Another attempt by the Zionists to say they are singled out when they are called out on their behavior.

and denies Palestinians human rights. Mazel Tov.

Of course the status of gay rights in Israel is completely irrelevant to this discussion. But what does the middle-east conflict have to do with a gay pride parade in Toronto?! Of course Israel does not have carte-blanche to do whatever it wants - no country does. But there are legitimate ways to protest Israel's actions, and then there are absurd ones. Why does everything in the world have to come back to the Israel/Palestinian conflict? Pride is about celebration, so go celebrate.

"Look for information about human rights in Gaza and the West Bank. Good luck. There aren`t any." The right to practice their religion freely. The right to own property. The right to a free press from Israel, but not from their own people. The right to health care. The right to own businesses. The right to vote. Among the rights which Israel denies to them is the "right" to attack Israelis.

Well said!

...Sat., February 07, 2009 Shvat 13, 5769 "Israel bans Arab parties from running in upcoming elections" More discerning readers with less selective memories and no desire to support racism in a "Western" country i.e. not a colony, will know already. The whole world knows nowadays with the internet and the growth and daring of the left in Israel. Hats off to them. For others, here is the link: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054867.html

It is of course a good thing that Israel is much more liberal than many of its neighbours. But I'm amazed at all the fools here who think that gays around the world should be die-hard supporters of anything Israel does just because Israel recognizes that gays are people too. Does anyone want to explain to me why this gives Israel a carte blanche to do anything it likes? Why would it be impossible for a gay person to object to inhumane treatment of people who are not gay? Are you so narrow-minded that you think that people can only sympathize with people who are similar to themselves?

Does the Hindu caste system constitute a form of apartheid? If so, why not Gays against Indian apartheid? Why not gays for women's rights in Saudi, where women can't drive cars? How about gays against the Taliban, who treat women poorly? I follow the Israeli scene and I see no evidence that the 20% of Israelis who are Arabs suffer from apartheid.

Or Egypt or Saudi or Hamastan? Then these mindless slogan shouters would learn the facts of life

level in Israel.

dino - the point is not if your opinion of what they are doing is "hate speech" or a "crime" or "political expression"... the issue is that the canadian government, as elected officials and expressing the opinion of the majority of the citizens, does not need to PAY MONEY - TAXPAYER MONEY - to support a parade that includes this group - no one in canandian government is calling for there imprisonment, fines, or the like - merely that they don't want to pay money for it - not a terribly difficult concept which you purposely ignore....

So lets get this 'straight'.....Israel the only country in the middle east that doesn't hang, behead or stone to death gays, lesbians, and transgenders actually has a group that is upset with them? Wow, just when you thought you've heard it all....

As a Gay Palestinian living in the US, even I think that Gays marching in support of "Palestine" is...like,well, turkeys marching in support of Thanksgiving!

If you will march near our city, I mustafa will not be happy and I am Palestinian. You can go to Israel to be guy but bleeze don't support us.

" the city has told them that Toronto Pride had contravened its anti-discrimination policy on the grounds that "those words make certain participants feel uncomfortable." Can you imagine how much impact a protest would have if no one felt uncomfortable by it?

Look for information about human rights in Gaza and the West Bank. Good luck. There aren't any. Wikipedia won't even touch the topic.

Helloooooooooooo, have any of these GAY rights "protesters" checked out the situation, tolerance or rights for Gays in any of the Arab countries or the Palestinian side?

Yeah I guess you forgot what happened at the last parade..huh

I wonder how much attention this issue is getting in the Muslim/Arab press, say in Pakistan, Afghanistan, even Gaza or Nablus, Jericho, Tehran or Riyadh.

I disagree with the City of Toronto's position. I think it should not matter if you are anti oppression or pro liberty. However, if the gay group called itself gays for a liberated Palestine, I think the City would have a very different position. Unfortunately, the group did not have the plitical sophistication to be pro librty instead of anti oppression.

Where would you rather live, queers? In israel where you can be openly gay, hang out in tons of gay bars and have your own parades... in a country that has arabs in its parliamentary system (even though they're anti the state) OR in Gaza, where Hamas would kill you by tying you to the back of a car and dragging you through the streets until all your skin ripped off for being homosexual. You people are so stupid - have everything perverted and reversed. You have no idea what apartheid really was and what the state of Israel - a real democracy, is all about.

Good day, Your Worship, I respect QuAIA's ("Queers against Israel Apartheid)'s right to protest, whatever its motivations. It just strikes me as odd that of all targets, they would single out Israel, where Gay Rights are amongst the best-protected in the world, let alone in the Middle East. Israeli Arab Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and Transgendereds have rights that the rest of the Arab world will not and cannot match. Gays from that region have sought refuge in Canada on the basis of sexual orientation. Rather than withold funding for Gay Pride Day, to what is an important part of Toronto's celebrated diversity and tolerance, may I humbly propose that Toronto very publicly become a sister-city of Tel-Aviv in respect to GLBT rights? Invite them to march in the Parade. I think this positive-step would go some considerable way to setting things right and putting them in perspective. Thank you for considering my comments. Yours truly, Phillipe T. Lucre

Never one to let facts interfere with a good rant, Swiss is happy to conflate a decision by Toronto city officials with some bizarre notion that this is the work of "Christian Zionist" Harperites. Let's ignore entirely the fact that this is a municipal decision, and by a city that staunchly refuses to elect Tory members of Parliament. Indeed its mayor is a well known member of the NDP (ie Canada's version of social democrats). I suppose we should ignore entirely that this attack on one of the most open and tolerant multicultural cities in the world comes from a nation given to openly racist political campaigns (let's not forget that black sheep), and Islamophobic restrictions on minarets that not even the extreme right would dare to propose in Canada...

Ben, You know what, if there was peace and Israel was recognized by everyone and there was equality for all inside and outside of Israel, that would make me really happy. I understand that the Arab states proposed a peace plan that would just have Israel back to its LEGALLY recognized borders and would lead to such an acceptance.... Israel turned it down. Israel is now threatening the palestinians if they declare independence... does that mean they won't recognize a palestine? As for women... I am obviuosly for the rights of women in the middle east including not being bombed by Israeli missiles.

Peace is War, peace is death... yada yada yada

And about gay policies in the middle eastern world... we know... we hate it, but we are also human beings and all human rights matter to us. Perhaps your efforts would be better placed in advocating Human Rights in the Mid-east... Lets say Jewish, female and gay rights would be nice... How about you demand that the Arabs accept Israel’s right to exist... Or letting Women go outside their homes unescorted… also how about you demand that Mecca allow gay right parade... You say that you are pro-human rights... well how about advocating that the Arabs let go of their 7th century mentality and maybe the Jews(Israelis) living under constant threat would be less likely to impose what you claim are ‘pseudo apartheid like parameters’ in Israel....

....so called illegal Arab houses in Israel are being destroyed,while Jewish houses,that are illegal even according to Israeli law (settle- ment outposts) aren't, makes Israel indeed look like an Apartheid state. At least that kind of "stuff" is offering an absolutely legal basis to voice that opinion....

I don't think Hamas or Hezbollah are a non-violent groups. But, I don't believe that if Israel can violate air space, can strike in the middle of Gaza whenever it pleases, can continually expand its settlements, etc, it can justify killing thousands of people over two incidents that are small relative to what Israel gets away with. I don't believe, therefore, that Israel gets to do whatever it wants wherever it wants and then when Hamas does something small they can claim they started or that Hezbollah started. Thousands dead. It seems someone doesn't care about human life. I don't believe that Israel is really trying to achieve peace because they don't have much to get from it. I want them to start trying really hard for a change.

I could list a number of other things Eli. Permits for construction by Arabs vs. Israelis. All racism is different...yet they are all racism... words can extend their definitions to cover things that in spirit have the same meanining even if they are not exactly the same. Nothing is exactly the same. It would seem you don't understand how words acquire meanings and how meanings for the same wrod differ geographically. What do you think the average Jo protesting at the SA embassy thought of Apartheid? I don't believe you are winning this argument and I think it is pretty arrogant of you to think that you will put wholes through it. It is like when Israel calls itself a democracy and controls so much of the lives of people who never got to vote in israeli elections... Israel is the most flexible with words, don't you think? See you at Pride... I'll be clapping for QaIA.

....as the queers against Apartheid are anti-Israel !!

How about we have this discussion here instead. That way you can try to poke wholes into it. You see, I am aware, that Gladstone and the pro-Israel group used the same tactic you are trying to use with the Board at Pride, which is to restric the definition of apartheid to the specific situation of South Africa. To us in North America, who never really thought much about the specifics, apartheid was simply that whites did not want to integrate with blacks, that they didn't want them to have equal rights, etc. It wasn't a very elaborate definition that led to the outrage, it was simply that there was intitutionalized racism. Truth is, (1) Israel doesn't want a one state solution because then they'll have to incorporate a large amount of non jewish palestinians; (2) Israel does not recognize Beoudine villages within its borders; (3) Institutions in Israel are allowed to be Jewish-only in the administration of land; etc. Con't

Peaceful Pascifists? If not do you not think your post of: " no more Gaza 2009 or Lebanon... I don't know if you follow me, but Israel IS VIOLENT, QaIA would like the violence to end." Is a littel off? a little missing the point of what started this military campaigns? Do you think that Hamas and Hizbollah are non aggressive organizations? You should consider this as, your arguments were pretty good until that one, as that sort of blew the hull wide open and exposes somethings. You critique Ari and Yaacob for being onesided yet your notion that Hamas and Hizbollah are peaceful, possibly tolerant organizations, well that is a shitload of tripe

Interesting that a group of Gays are advocates for the pals... Perhaps these individuals should do some reaserch before they through thier support behind a cause... Just google gay in palestine and see what news stories comes up... But i guess it only makes sense that they would have such "Queer" Ideas!

Here are a bunch of hypocrites who will never say a word against Israel (AriOren, Yacoob) and then have the nerve to call a human rights organization that wants PEACE and equality hypocrites. Does Israel want peace and equality? Even the thought that Obama could impose a peace plan leads the Israeli government to say "they cannot be forced to peace". Why not if they claim they want peace? Pride will go on and if QaIA is banned you bet that there will be thousands of queers who otherwise wouldn't do it wearing QaIA teachers in the many other groups in the march, among the public, etc. You don't understand our community so you best leave us alone.

Tim McCaskell and his friends will sink the whole gay pride ship.

Hi Tam, I am straight, very Pro-Israel, and I wholeheartedly support gay pride, I live close to the village (Bay and Wellesly) and love the week; you guys really make the city come alive and it highlights many Canadian values of tolerance which I am proud of. The fact that the GOV of Ont has TV ads showing Gay Pride events as part of Ontario Identity is GREAT! Now that said, I'd love to hear your argument so that I can poke all the holes in it and watch it sink. please email me, alwayslearning@live.ca What I'd love to show you is that there is no way you will be able to fit Israel into the definition of Apartheid, or by trying to do so you will come into disrepute. That word has been used once and that is with regards to South Africa. What you are doing is trying to fit Israel into that word, so I ask why? Why not a new proper word? That word is used to target an identifiable group and target harm and hurt to them, to see the same ends as SA, Divest and Boycotts? ifnot explain

They are ugly hypocrites. They dismiss aggressive anti Semitic words and violence against Jews, gay people and women by intolerant Muslims. They do not belong in the Pride Parade. They are ignorant of history and facts and should be ashamed.

First, you are a bit dated, Pride isn't about tolerance... we don't want to be tolerated. Second, QaIA are not promoting violence. Ending the occupation, equal rights for all parties, recognizing all villages inside of Israel, no more Gaza 2009 or Lebanon... I don't know if you follow me, but Israel IS VIOLENT, QaIA would like the violence to end.

Bank on it!

--- Prominent activists from Toronto?s lesbian, gay, bisexual and trans (LGBT) communities joined together today to condemn moves by some sponsors of the city?s annual Pride festival to dictate who will be allowed to participate in the Pride parade. ?We don?t need corporate sponsors, government funders, or external lobby groups telling our community what we can talk about in our own parade,? says Tim McCaskell, an organizer of the protests against bathhouse raids which sparked the creation of Pride Toronto in 1981. --- Source: http://queersagainstapartheid.org/

I am queer and in Toronto and I fully support QaIA. And, don't you worry, despite the Pro-Israel camp lying through their teeth to label them a hate group, they'll stay and Pride will continue. You just watch us! ... it is so nice to be queer sometimes...:) And the more the Pro-Israel group goes at it,... the better known they will become... and the more supporters they will have. So please, go on about it. As someone else put it in a Toronto discussion... if this was "queers agasint dutch apartheid" the dutch would laugh... they know they aren't an apartheid state, they know everyone can tell they aren't... I guess Pro-Israel groups aren't so sure that the issue is so clear. And about gay policies in the middle eastern world... we know... we hate it, but we are also human beings and all human rights matter to us.

... so we won't have to wait long to see if they march again this year ... they will!

Despite effort Queers Against Israeli Apartheid did march in this year's Toronto Pride. This is not made clear in the article, perhaps the information is dated? In any case there are ongoing efforts to exclude QAIA in next years' parade, likely to backfire given the history of political expression which is fundamental to Pride since inception. Moreover given that the economic benefits of Pride to the city are enormous it is nearly inconceivable that the anti-QAIA forces could prevail.

The city of Toronto loves gay pride week, it is a cash cow the hotels are filled the city is alive and it's a very safe week, I live two streets from the gay village, I am straight but love that week as the area is a party Swiss doesn't understand that you do not have unlimited right to expression here. Is a statement, Islam is apartheid, hateful and hurtful? I'd say yes, but one could make a very compelling argument that wouldn't fit congruently to the definition but closely, but the reason why one would use the word apartheid is to create that hate and hurt to an identifiale group. The same goes for israel, hence why there is no congruent argument and the argument that say israel is an apartheid conflict, because it isn't but ppl are trying to fit it as one. And that is the issue Swiss come here and learn or stay there and shut up

It's meant to promote tolerance, not hate.

You cannot fit israel into the definition of apartheid, it doesn't work, that word is a definition of specic policies that were evident in south Africa which do not fit congruently to israel and DTs so the same could be said calling Islam ( or really any religion to a lesser extent) apartheid, it is not correct nor moral but the argument could be easily made, is that hate speech? I'd say yes as the reason why One would use the word apartheid even though it isn't a perfect fit for a purpose of defaming an identifiable group that said as a straight torontonian, I support gay pride it does wonder for the city and who the hell cares if someone is gay what harm does them being gay cause you, NONE

"There is only one relevant question here. Would Toronto officials also consider to stop funding the gay parade, if pro-Israel (let`s say AIPAC) activists wanted to participate...???" If you weren't a moron, you'd realize that, in this case, there is a difference between being pro something and anti something. A better question would be would they consider stopping funding if there was an ANTI-Palestinian group involved. The answer should be a resounding, "Yes."

"Good old Canada more and more evolving into a Christian-Zionist dictatorship, where freedom of speech is becoming a hate-word...???" A dictatorship wouldn't allow the parade or this group to participate in it. Canada is saying it will not fund it, schmuck. Are governments obligated to provide funding for varying groups' parades?

and Pro Iranian People. They have no desire to March in Tehran or Haredi Neighborhoods in Jerusalem. Also, Being of Palestinian Descent in Israel does make you a second class citizen. You Know that, and the World knows that, and I have seen it first hand, in Israel.

Since when does Gay Pride in Toronto have anything to do with Israel? If you want to protest Israeli "apartheid", or anything else "anti-Israel" go make your own protest. What is the point in hijacking some other event? Oh yes, this very conveniently generates lots of media publicity.... I thought that Gay Pride was supposed to be a celebration of gay pride! Celebrations and protests make odd bed-fellows.

Get your facts "straight". Lol. Anyway, doesn't diverting attention from the issue ever get old for you? What does the legality or not of homosexuality in other countries in the middle east region have to do with the legitimate criticism by homosexuals of the aparteid policies of the state of Israel. Logical fallacy of relevance!

that really makes me laugh.. Bunch of screw ups(literally speaking) unrecognized by the most of the people in the world. Shall I say perverts-in-law, whose butt-practices would be punishable by be-headings in any islamic country. Even these illegitimate crap stinking the air with anti-Israel/Jewish prattles... Get lost stinkers...

#4 - It is a little ironic, you have to admit! Gay Pride is alive and well in Israel. Israeli Arab LGBT people are protected under Israeli law. LGBT (Lettuce, Gays, Bacon and Tomato) is punishable by death in the Arab world. And female genital mutilation is still quite quite big in Muslim countries. But we're not talking about the bottom-dwellers in the UN Human Development tables here. We're talking about one of the greatest countries in the world, Canada, where minarets are not deemed illegal, as Dinos in Switzerland have decreed, for example. Such fine Christian people, eh? I wonder if the organizers' best response might not be to encourage Gays *For* Israel to march alongside/just ahead of al-QuAIA - pointing out Israel's accomplishments wrt Gay Rights etc. And Toronto should continue to fund the parade, regardless, and make Tel Aviv Toronto Gay Pride's sister-city.

They have been organising a boycott-campaign against Estee Lauder and other Jewish companies, whose owners vehemently fight against a fair compromise between Israelis and Palestinians (as Ronald Lauder once again proved with his ad against president Obama from a few days ago). So they are actually doing exactly, what the EU and the United States have done to the extremists on the Palestinian side (Hamas + Co.) over the past few years.... If that is the "crime" for which they deserve a punishment, why no punishment for the EU and the United States from those Canadian officials...???

Gays against Israel (the country to which gay Palestinians flee to to avoid being killed) would be similar to a Jews for Hitler group.

which exists in Israel like anywhere. Remember the shooting in Tel Aviv where two people died. By the way, in Jordan homosexuality is legal.

of the group's name, then they could claim to protest against all apartheid in the world, beginning with Arab Muslim apartheid and continuing with the millions of other apartheids that exist in the world. Otherwise, they're just hypocrites with a bogus agenda.

Being gay in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Iran, Syria, Lebanon is punishable. Being a Jew in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan Afghanistan, Malaysia, Iran, Syria,Lybia,Indonesia is a crime.

"being gay isnt a crime in israel, just being an arab is" Joe are you talking about 20% of our population that share this country with us. That have their own political parties, Knesset members, newspapers, serve as police officers and goverment workers. Have the same rights as I have, the right to vote, healthcare and education.The only right that you have that they do not have is the right to be stupid.

Would Toronto officials also consider to stop funding the gay parade, if pro-Israel (let's say AIPAC) activists wanted to participate...??? To be honest, that's pretty hard to imagine under the current Canadian governement....

I suggest that this group register to march in the Gay Pride Parade in Teheran.I am sure that they would be a hit using their group name. Hey Elle Flanders whats the view like from up there hanging from a crane.

What a joke, lets see what would happen if they had their parade in ANY middle eastern country besides Israel. WHAT A real JOKE!!!

All decent people are against aparthied. There is much to be said for being gay, and the gay lifestyle. Queers Against Israeli Apartheid has been fighting for Palestinian rights in Canada for over 20 years. The Israeli government's interference into Canada's internal policy is appalling.

being gay isnt a crime in israel, just being an arab is

....dictatorship, where freedom of speech is becoming a hate-word...??? Will the Canadian people be able to pull the ("Harper") emergency brake, before it's becoming too late....???

The Gay Pride Parade was established to educate the population that gays are people before anything else. The theme is always "we are gay and we are here". point finale. There is no reason to bring other political arguments to the table. If you want to push this Anti-Israeli agenda then pay for your own parade.

This group is against Israel, the only country in the region where being a homosexual isn't a punishable crime.