ANALYSIS: Hamas losing grip on Gaza, Fatah gaining support

In the sources I read, killing 7 or 8 people at a rally doesn't count as "maintaining law and order." Neither does forcibly converting a Christian professor to Islam. Nor beating and robbing old Christian women; nor murdering or abetting the murder of the only Christrian bookseller in Gaza. Surely you couldn't have missed that. For that matter, neither does denying the freedom of assembly and freedom of the press...

Proud Pal Defender, if I lived in the United States, I would buy you a drink (non alcoholic if you are a practising Muslim of course!) I agree with you COMPLETELY that this conflict is NOT about Israel vs. Palestinians, this conflict is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN, about Moderates vs. Extremists. Those who seek to portray this as Israeli vs. Palestinians are playing RIGHT INTO THE HANDS of the extremists, whose agenda is nothing short of sowing as much hatred, anger and prejudice against "the other side" as possible (the "other side" being defining as all Israelis and all Palestinians regardless of their opinions, beliefs or views.) Some go so far as to label people on their "own" side, who support peace, as "traitors", in an attempt to keep this "holy" conflict going. How it can be "holy" with causing so many dead innocents, I really can't understand. Peace will require courage and bold steps by both sides.Palestinians and Israelis must work together to fight extremism and embrace peac

I think Palestinian people start realize the truth of hamas and I am sure there will not be hamas in Palestinian society in the future. now the people are frustrated from occupation and discrimination. When the occupation finish and peace coming they will be satisfied and they will choose to live free and peaceful without any controlling from other whether hamas or occupation

"Yes, there are two extremist groups in Gaza,the Army of Islam(which kidnapped Johnston)& Sword of Islam which was responsible for social extremism." Lakshmi, Isn't it just like the apologists and Israelis to make a mountain out of a molehill? Can you believe how they have made a couple of fanatical groups seen like the biggest threat in the terroritories and in Iraq since the nuclear bomb? All to diffuse the real threat of the Zionists and imperialists--I might add too. I am so out-raged with all their propaganda. Last week, I read in someone post there are far more people killed on Sderot's roads from motor vechile accidents than from Qassam rockets. Now my blood boils at the thoughts of those residents and the apologists demanding that the Israeli army use all its might in combat- ing those firing 4th of July type rockets. What alarmists. It should be a cold day in hell before anyone responds to their threats again. Beyond outrage & in revolt Dutch

Hello lakshmi, Blaming the victims seems like the new pasttime of many Zionists & unfortunately the Bush camp too. Yet most I people I know recognize the hypo-hypocrisy behind such claims and realize they are the real dictators imposing their will in the Palestinian territories and Iraq. You might find the following URLs helpful in nailing this problem down too. Thanks, Dutch P. S., The Trouble with Bush's Islamo-facism http://www.alternet.org/story/40850/ Who are the real fanatics http://www.vdare.com/roberts/070905_fanatics.htm Dutch

"CFOOL ETC you SURE he is a Rabbi ,not one of your mob? To stir hate. Plenty of aliases and false names used here." Anything's possible in the surreal world of Talkback, Peter. Many of the unbelievably vicious "Zionists" who post here, including you, could, by this same measure, be one of "my mob". And, of course, I may not be a member of "my mob" at all. but a vicious Zionist in disguise. It's a Lewis Carroll world on Talkback.

"I dont personally believe in god at all. you`re the one that brought that irrelevant line of thought up." What it another Nick who wrote the following? "christians are the "turn the other cheek" Fools. Ours isn`t a kind god."

Indy, shout harder that Hamas will survive and we will laugh louder!!! Hamas has missed the peace train and they are on their own supported by fools like you.Ha,Ha,Ha.

To stir hate. Plenty of aliases and false names used here.

With Al Queda in retreat in Iraq and throughout most of the arab world, palestine is the last hope of the islamicists like Lakshmi for a new islamic terrorist base. I've said it before, but I'll say it again--the palestinian people must chose once and for all between true palestinian nationalist and those like Hamas whose real goal is to establish the worldwide islamic caliphate with palestine as one of the provinces. Of course, it is a long hard battle to establish the caliphate, so in the minds of the islamicists, the purpose of the palestinian people is to continue to suffer in order to justify the worldwide struggle for the caliphate.

Say there, finish off Hamas? Fatah the new gov't? Do you get the news in Montana? Yeah, right, Zionists tried to wipe out Hezbollah, US tried to wipe out the Taliban and Iraqi militias, and failed and so now you get the bright idea to wipe out Hamas. Israel couldn't wipe out Hezbollah either. You can NEVER wipe out Hamas because Hamas represents the soul of the Palestinian people and their experience under Zionism. You would have a better shot at wiping out the notion of Zionism and then Hamas would disappear. Keep dreaming. Fatah won't deliver because Israel is not going to let them. That failure will strengthen Hamas. Regards.

Speaking of stealing money, what happened to all the money that was given to the few surviving Holocaust folks that was given to the gov't of Israel? Zionists are out with a bigger begging cup for Germany and even the Dutch. I would have thought you would be cautious about living in a glass house and throwing stones. Zionist politicians are no better and are not 'using' the tragic circumstances of something like the Holocaust to fleece money from folks and not use it for the purpose intended. Regards.

give the impression that it is the Islamic world that does all the killing.You've omitted the death & destruction caused by the west in general but more recently that by the u.s.-israel cabal.But do continue with the stats. . .And,although the article is not about israel your singling out Hamas in the way you did seems to suggest anything but an attempt to tarnish the only Resistance Movement that has been able to stand up to Israel in Palestine,not to mention the attempts to physically overthrow it by israel-u.s. But nice afterthought about war.But do continue with the stats. the whole picture . . .

Well unlike so many so called "friends and supporters of the paletinians" you support Fatah and the moderates in palestine.This shows you are a true friend of the Pals and are interested in their best intrests rather than using this as an excuse to spew deranged anti semitism. Good show.

I dont personally believe in god at all. you're the one that brought that irrelevant line of thought up. The only thing I believe regarding this situation is that Israel has an intrinsic right to exist because they won that right in war. The other thing that I believe is that international pressure in one direction or another is actually harmful to the situation. The third thing I believe is that people who come to an Israeli paper to declare support for an organization like Hamas, which kills its own people as well as swearing to eradicate the Jews of Israel, are hurting the Palestinian people and the Palestinian cause much much more than any Israeli soldier.

most likely zionist & islamofascist sources.The comparison with Taliban is an old canard.Haniyeh has said that Hamas follows Basic Palestinian Law,no one will be punished except those who violate the laws of Palestine.The head of the Latin Church is on excellent terms with Hamas.Most recently a British delegation of nuns and priests visited Gaza.Yes, there are two extremist groups in Gaza,the Army of Islam(which kidnapped Johnston)& Sword of Islam which was responsible for social extremism.Hamas is vigilant regarding these groups & have maintained law & order despite great odds,despite the vile siege.

but cannot fail to notice your stats omits all the wars waged by inter European powers & the dead in both those wars,not to mention all the peoples in the colonised countries,not to mention the most recent deaths of nearly 1 million Iraqis in the Bush invasion of Iraq,not to mention . . . Need I go on? A general statement like all war is bad is quite laudable,neverthless you manage to convey the impression that it is only the islamic world that committed violence & murder!

HAMAS loosing grip? or Amos Harel loosing his mind?

With a family connection in Gaza Im an avid follower of events there through their eyes and ears. The situation in Gaza now is deteriorating rapidly. Because ordinary Gazans are finally waking up. The Hamas elite grab and grab for themselves - no wonder that Haniyehs son and Zahar quite apart from the notorious Gaza Mafia families are so filthy rich whilst the rest of Gaza starves. As for Mashaal there isnt anyone more self serving and corrupt. Gaza society is falling apart. Gone is the sense of community, hospitality, humour, creativity - Gaza is reduced to a nothingness of violence, hatred, corruption and treachery. Yet the Hamas elite cling to power at all costs by ruthlessly and cynically promoting a sense of hopelessness, fear and intolerance. With Hamas its not about justice and a future for Palestinians, not about creating hope but creating despair so they can keep ordinary Gazans subservient and enslaved. What a grave error of judgement....

All along I said Hamas would self destruct and yet people like click, Indra, and Johnboy and N. Duerson all made supporting Hamas their primary goal.Hamas will at somepoint just make bad reading in an History book on Gaza. They are on their way out and the leaders just have to accept this. Fatah will end up being the government of the Pals.

"Hamas are well entrenched in Gaza." (You) As well entrenched as one can be when 1/6 of the population comes out to demonstrate against you. And the world rejects you as a terrorist monster. "Hamas will take over the WB sooner or later." (You) Please, let us know when, your Omniscience. Meanwhile, Palestinians are posting here against Hamas, and Arab-Israelis are saying they DON'T want any part of your PA paradise, but would rather stay Israeli citizens. Fascinating. Seems like they know something you don't know. BTW, do you still maintain that Hamas promotes the freedom of the press and religion? Even after they've continually threatened and repressed journalists, watched the last Christian bookseller in Gaza slaughtered, and forcibly converted a female Christian professor to Islam at gunpoint? Keep cheering for them as they go the way of the Taliban.

Didn't Hyenah recently state that Hamas is ready to "conquer the West Bank" once Israel withdraws? Maybe the Haaretz Propaganda Machine will tell us this is just bravado and bluster, and it must not dissuade us from the need to join hands with our "Palestinian brothers" and start a love train, but first all Israel needs to do is to go to the Barber Shop and shave off half of Jerusalem and other excesses.

of 2 Israeli children (elswhere in the paper). Doesn't it make you proud? Let's hope you'll keep up your good spirits if something God forbid happens to your family. Sderot is riffraff of course so being glad at the demise of its tormentors is unworthy..

Seemed to have pressed a button here. So who's defending Israel?. The article is about Hamas.I was talking about the glorification of violence, about the conditioning of the innocent. Of course if you want some statistics: well then, Algeria 500,000 to 1 million dead in war of Independence,100,000 in the civil war in the 90's,. Sudan 230,000 murdered by Arab Moslem regime.Somalia 400,00-550,000 in civil war. Bangladesh 1.4-2 MILLION as a result of Pakistan invasion. Indonesia 400,000 by army of Hugi Mohamed Sokarto. 100,000 -200,000 killed in east Timor because of Indonesian invasion.Iran 450,000-970,000 in Iran Iraq war.Lebanon 130,000 Muslim Druze and Christians killed in civil war.The point is, the glorification of war is wrong, by Christian, Jew or Moslem.

"Ours isn`t a kind god." You clearly believe in an intervening God, Nick. The six million prayers that went unanswered during the Holocaust suggest otherwise. Unless, of course, you think your "not kind God" allowed the Nazis to butcher all these innocents as a punishment for some unspecified sin.

glorious IDF which sits in aircraft and drops from the sky millions of cluster bombs or bulldoze Palestinian homes,or shoot unarmed teenagers or beat to death an unarmed teenager waiting to catch a bus to take him to university for registration,or cut down olive trees(1 million since 1948) and commit crimes both against humanity and Nature!

Ya, OK Clickfool, fully agree that Hamas has been doing all that you describe. However, the question is: will they succeed over time, or will the resistance of the Pal opposition, plus Israeli egging on of this opposition, succeed in eventually overcoming the nefarious intentions of Hamas? Personally, I sincerely hope so...

I am not surprised.The bosses in Teheran need some sort of diversional skirmishes, they care not of collateral damage to humans. The International heat is on Teheran and their fiddler scientists havent yet found the nuclear grail. Watch the northern border heat up, Hezbollacks have probably received their firing orders as well. Its gonna be a hot winter.

"I hope it`s not comedy writing....." But of course not! It's Clickfool's stark reality with which you feed us daily.

with CNN stated clearly that Damascus does not interfere with the decisions of the military wing of Hamas,as long as they oppose the zionist enemy which is occupying our lands. As for the writing on the wall,it looks more like israel's problem!

Your two analysts are very anal. Hamas is not Israel, they do not care if the 'people' protest. They are not bound by any laws or morality since they 'know' that might is right and they have it. These two have been wrong 100% of the time and they still are.

are you sure you haven't confused judaism with christianity? christians are the "turn the other cheek" Fools. Ours isn't a kind god.

donated money,earmarked for innocent civillians and putting it in a swiss bank account to be used for the mullahs personal enjoyment,or sometimes by his wife in case of his death.

Fatah and Hamas are terrorist organizations.Hamas is more bloodthirsty and probably even more stupid than Fatah.When will either accept peace with Israel and begin to work for their own people.There are good jobs waiting in Israel.There is cooperation and good will waiting for them in Israel.How stupid can they be.Yes,I thought so,very stupid !!

Take a leaf out of Hobbes' Leviathan, and you have gazans with a short, brutal and miserable life. In steps, Leviathan to kill the aspirations, livelihood, and finally physically the Gazans in order to rule the desert very effeciently.

Your comparison of Jews to Pals is cruel. What would you do if you were in the situation of the Jews during that time period in Germany? For me, if my family were safe outside the war zone I would try to kill as many Germans as possible without regards to my life. If my family was with me, I don't know what I would do. Search your soul.

"priceless post, anubhav. LOL LOL" Gosh, you must be starved of humour, Klaudia. Here's a treat for you, you poor sod: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=znUAKotJSrg You should find this a tad more ticklesome than a desperately dull post from Watcher.

"East Grinstead you said? The Mossad is on its way - to blow-up a synagogue of course, as soon as it`s built. Stay away from it, just near the mosque and you`ll be safe." I hope it's not comedy writing..... (;-) CF

you are asking for moral guidence? Morality begins at home. The reason why you people are so confused is because you are feed hatred all the time. You want moral guidence, learn to tolerate other peoples opinions and keep your faith and beliefs to yourself. If you can't do this then go to a country that shares your lie style. That is how you live with peace within yourselfs.

This is a link to that canned story: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/922744.html I found it interesting.

Pals aren't a stupid people. Majority are nothing like the Hamastans in Gaza or Syria.

for Hamas and their rulers in Damascus.

"No mosque or synagogue, sadly." East Grinstead you said? The Mossad is on its way - to blow-up a synagogue of course, as soon as it's built. Stay away from it, just near the mosque and you'll be safe.

Why is Haaretz wasting time on this? Surely there is something evil that Jews are doing, or at least something that somebody made up, claiming the Jews did something. It must really be a slow news day, when Arabs killing Arabs is the only thing to report. Of course, this could be a Zionist plot to make Arabs look bad by telling people that they do bad things. I won't believe this story until I see a room full of Arabs staring blankly, while their leader tells us all the truth.

.. priceless post, anubhav. LOL LOL

I have no ambition to become a mullah, a rabbi or any other cleric for that matter. Plenty of choice here in Sussex. East Grinstead, not far away from my house, seems to be on loony ley lines of some sort and has attracted all sorts of weird religions. The dafties of the Scientology scam have their UK headquarters there, there's a large Mormon Temple, Opus Dei and the Rosicrucians are present, to say nothing of a large clutch of Anglican, Roman Catholic and Methodist churches. No mosque or synagogue, sadly.

Hamas will kill Arabs until they will disappear. Hamas I mean.

"This shows Hamas's grip on Gaza is weakening."

Hamas are real mean.Just look at their guns which they carry with honour and pride. Yes these were the first days of freedom in Gaza, images of Hamas sitting on hilltops with their treasured beautiful wonderful guns. No doubt their children, of whom there are many, will also be crack shots.A wonderful future is in store when Israel goes under at the hands of the real men. So women, wherever you are forget intellect, creativity, sensitivity and find a Hamas man with his gun.Have many children and live happily ever after in Freedom.

is entrenched in Gaza.The differences in leadership between Mishal & the Gaza leadership are minor ones.israel had better watch out because the West Bank is sure to fall sooner or later and the quislings will be brought to trial for their collaboration!Witness their craven begging of israel to stay on in the West Bank to protect their hides!

step1: learn to yell on a loudspeaker like a madman step2: remember that killing all non-muslims is what allah and mohammad want step3: get a visa to the west step4: apply for social welfare step5: aggregate morons to make bombs etc step6: make them go and explode somewhere step7: while doing all this go to the local guardian editor and shout that muslims are oppressed and islamophobia is on the rise step8: ask muslim men to lure and marry non muslim women, and leave muslim women as 'pure' step9: ask them to produce a child every 9 months. at max 12 months step10: kill the jews, kill the jews, kill the jews!!!!!! well here you got your 10 commandments. start working on it. your time starts now.

"HAMAS SHOULD DROWN IN FATAH BLOOD!" Nice way for a rabbi/spiritual leader (if you are) to speak.And I'm supposed to seek spiritual guidance from you.

"Hold your fire,don't respond to the provocations!" uttered on June 21,1941 after he was notified Germans had started invasion of the Sovjet Union. Until then Sovjets had been supplying Germans with nickel(tank production),wheat,oil. Whoever rules Gaza,Qassam fire is such a provocation and "Haaretz" wholeheartedly supports the wise restraint policy of the IDF based on immortal Stalin's directives and is all for supplying Gazans with oil,wheat,nickel(Qassam production)

"HAMAS SHOULD DROWN IN FATAH BLOOD! No pity for them!" Tell me, Tommy Lispker, is it easy to become a Rabbi? Do you just have to memorise certain forms of words, know the right answers to particular questions, know prayers off by heart, wear the right sort of pious clothes? Do you never have to think about the Torah, and its core message of peace, gentleness, kindness, compassion, respect for others. self-sacrifice and love?

Israelis have been in a day dreaming about the DESTRUCTION OF HAMAS since the last 2 years. So deeply, they think it was a REALITY.

todays posts show an urgent need for medical help!!

the odious comparisons between the two terrorist groups are ludicrous !! what it shows is that they should all be transferred to arab countries !

There Are Few Good Solutions With Hamas/Those Who Want To Continue Fighting-- You can`t send all of them to Iran & Syria...because then they will get together & be free to do attacks around the world. So...Hamas, etc. must be contained. Since-- Everything is up in the air now/territory is now being negotiated...now would be a good time...to do some other adjustments. Solution-- Put all of Hamas/those who want to continue fighting in Gaza...& Fatah/those who want peace...in the West Bank (with E. Jerusalem as their capital). I know Israel desperately wants them to have a civil war...but. The North/South Korean Example-- Gaza will remain Palestinian territory/remain Palestinian territory to negotiate...and...in the event that Hamas/others come around to wanting peace, etc...THEN reunification is possible. Palestinian Progress/State-- Must not be sacrificed because of Hamas, etc.

No Matter What One Thinks About Anyone In This Conflict (& Others)-- One thing is clear: Warmongers/Conflict Mongers, Extremists (settlers, Hamas, etc.), Peace Saboteurs, Etc.....MUST NOT BE ALLOWED to prevail in our world! WE Can Succeed Or They WILL Succeed-- We MUST come together...against these people/Extremists! Two Things Though (In This Conflict)-- --Israel CAN'T use this as an excuse (something it always does) to postpone/deny the Palestinians peace/their state. After all, they/their horrific treatment, oppression, occupation, etc....caused this. Peace/the Palestinian State CAN NO LONGER BE postponed! ...NO excuses!!!! --Israel...must allow Fatah/Moderates to use EXTERNAL allies (a practice that is common among most) to take on Hamas...militarily (if they choose to). ...It has been weakened by Israel over many years. HOWEVER-- TERRITORIAL SEPARATION is preferred (see my other post). GOOD LUCK Fatah/Moderates! ...We support you & wish you well.

"ANALYSIS: Hamas losing grip on Gaza, Fatah gaining support" What do the Haaretz writers think Hamas have been doing since their takeover in Gaza? Knitting? Hamas have been digging themselves in, furatively and literally.

petrol, raw materials, even food and water so long as the authorities there are considered enemy forces who target Israeli civilians daily to be murdered. Those who claim otherwise should unite behind the world demand of Hamas to meet the three basic requirements in order to re-enter world civilization: Recognize in principle Israel's right to exist, adhere to agreements already signed by the Palestinian leadership, and cease all acts of terror, violence and the preparations for such acts.

at ghetto warsaw. I think Palestinians are very much like Jews under the Nazis.

In the Hamas-Fatah conflict, Haaretz has clearly shown us, devoted Haaretz readers, the politically correct stance: in a series of columns by Amira Hass and Gideon Levy, the moral giant of this generation, we were advised that Fatah are traitors and Hamas is the force that represents progress and justice. If it comes to a showdown between Ahmed Al Jaabari and Khaled Meshal, we are in urgent need of moral guidance from Haaretz.

I cannot wait to see the usual "suspects", aka Israel haters, accusing Israel for the crimes commited by Hamas. Logic and truth not being required, they will find a way to blame the Jews. But Israel will flourish and be strong, while the terrorists will keep killing each other. If Fatah gains the upperhand, they will slaughter the Hamas people, and the cycle of violence will never end. Which is sad, because they are all humans, until they get indocrinated by leaders who enjoy power and a life of luxury, while the others suffer and die. Nothing is new in the Arab world!

If this isn't just wishful thinking, then it's good news...!

There Are Few Good Solutions With Hamas/Those Who Want To Continue Fighting-- You can`t send all of them to Iran & Syria...because then they will get together & be free to do attacks around the world. So...Hamas, etc. must be contained. Since-- Everything is up in the air now/territory is now being negotiated...now would be a good time...to do some other adjustments. Solution-- Put all of Hamas/those who want to continue fighting in Gaza...& Fatah/those who want peace...in the West Bank (with E. Jerusalem as their capital). I know Israel desperately wants them to have a civil war...but. The North/South Korean Example-- Gaza will remain Palestinian territory/remain Palestinian territory to negotiate...and...in the event that Hamas/others come around to wanting peace, etc...THEN reunification is possible. Palestinian Progress/State-- Must not be sacrificed because of Hamas, etc.

No Matter What One Thinks About Anyone In This Conflict (& Others)-- One thing is clear: Warmongers/Conflict Mongers, Extremists (settlers, Hamas, etc.), Peace Saboteurs, Etc.....MUST NOT BE ALLOWED to prevail in our world! WE Can Succeed Or They WILL Succeed-- We MUST come together...against these people/Extremists! Two Things Though (In This Conflict)-- --Israel CAN'T use this as an excuse (something it always does) to postpone/deny the Palestinians peace/their state. After all, they/their horrific treatment, oppression, occupation, etc....caused this. Peace/the Palestinian State CAN NO LONGER BE postponed! ...NO excuses!!!! --Israel...must allow Fatah/Moderates to use EXTERNAL allies (a practice that is common among most) to take on Hamas...militarily (if they choose to). ...It has been weakened by Israel over many years. HOWEVER-- TERRITORIAL SEPARATION is preferred (see my other post). GOOD LUCK Fatah/Moderates! ...We support you & wish you well.

No pity for them!

Liberate Gaza from Hamas. Allow individuality to flourish. Hamas is a total failure. Even simple Palestinians can see through their Islamist rubbish. Anyone is better than Iran, Oops I mean Hamas. Take a peek at secular Israel and you will see a progressive, high tech, beautiful landscape. Palestinians can have this too. Wake up, think, don't copy the past mistakes over and over.

demonstrating for Fatah. Normally a conservative ratio of 10:1 demonstrate. But since I would run out of population for Gaza with this kind of ratio, let's cut that conservative estimate by half and call it 5:1 instead. So that means about a million residents of Gaza, or 2/3rd of the population supports Fatah. Does that say anything about the murderous Hamas hordes. Their time is short..... I would say 6 to 12 months before you will find Haniyeh, Zahar and Jaafari on a cold slab in the morgue or more likely, in keeping with Islamic traditions, being dragged through the streets of Gaza at the end of a rope tied to a Toyota pickup truck.

Haaretz has just canned this story reported from Cairo about how Arabs are really not interested in Peace regardless of Israel`s actions. It did not fit nicely with all the other news and articles in Haartez putting all the blame on Israel for not having Peace with Arabs.

This is the way to deal with Arabs everywhere, its is the only language they understand.