Abbas to U.S.: Peace talks won't work until Israel given red lines

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others. There were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others. February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children.. March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to an Arab-owned building in Haifa (a 7 story block of apartments and shops) by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured. The Stern Gang claimed responsibility. March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and escaped before the explosion.

Israel will never accept a one state solution that involves making the palestinians Israeli citizens. The one state solution means Jordan accept responsibility for them. The arabs themselves & just about every foreign government ( US included ) might prefer the single state idea but as long as Israels jewish majority are against it then its not going to happen. If Jordan won't take them & the 2 state idea fails then we will leave them stateless because for sure we won't take them in and we don't owe them Israeli citizenship. The palestinians becoming Jordanians is the only politically & practical solution that will work long term after the parties are all over and the foreign aid & political support dries up after the west goes off looking for more lost causes to defend. Then the arabs will start to understand that a state on 22% of British Mandate Palestine in 2 parts will lever be really viable and there will always be clashes with Israel.

Yet, Hamas didn't recognize Israel and its right to exist and has no intention to do it for any reason. Moreover, the terror war waged against Israel was stopped only thanks to the Israeli military reaction and following (probably temporary) deterrence. Hamas and Fatah aren't ready for a credible unity government that can push forward with the peace talks. PA didn't give up to the right of return of ALL refugees and their descendants into Israel, as the Arab peace plan demands, and Abbas didn't even answer to Olmert's proposal in 2008 for a almost 100 % land swap. The PA wasn't willing to curb the hate propaganda against Israel. Besides, the security in the West Bank still depends on the presence of the IDF there, the PA doesn't seem able to keep full control on the territories and its armed wings, as the last deadly ambush at an Israeli citizen has showed. These are the conditions today and they don't appear very favourable for further Israeli unilateral steps, don't you think?

Declare all the palestinians to be Israeli citizens and tear down all the walls. Let them vote for whoever they want in Israeli elections. How else can you have peace? If you get a palestinian nation next door, how will you negotiate water rights, look how hard it is to even negotiate the existence of a palestinian state? And it's clearly unworkable to leave it the way it is. So, accept all the palestinians as Israeli citizens with all the rights of Israeli citizens, and look how much of the problem goes away! That would clearly be better than what's going on now, and easier to arrange than negotiating with Abbas.

This posting of Dave from Chicago is remarkable. To classify a temporary freeze of illegal settlements on occupied Palestinian land, and the easing of road blocks on roads in those lands as Israeli peace gestures, are gestures that completely escape the international community. No mention that Israel has subjected the Palestinians to a harsh and humiliating 42 year occupation. No mention that the occupation is a violation of international law and UN resolutions. No mention that Israel built settlements on that occupied land and annexed Jerusalem in violation of UN resolutions and articles of the 4th Geneva Convention. It ignores the fact that Israel has built a security wall on Palestinian territory that the International Court of Justice has ruled illegal. Forgot that Israel has imposed a near genocidal blockade in Gaza starving 1.5 million people in violation of the 4th Convention. Such violations are war crimes. And the best Israel can offer is a temporary settlement freeze?

Fatah and the Palestinians have made some really big concessions. But they apparently are not enough for the PTBs in Israel. A shame that. 1. Recognition of Israel AND its right to exist. 2. Recognized Israel's conquests up to 1967 and it right to keep that territory. The current PTBs inside Israel haven't yet recognized Palestine's right to exist, or even its future independence or sovereignty. Lieberman thinks returning a dead body to the family for burial is a concession. He's apparently adopted Hezbollah as his standard of humanity. Wahoo!

This is the plague of blindness. You ask why Israel is being held to a different standard. The fact is that it is not being held to a different standard; Israel created the stateless, impoverished Palestinians that it also bombs every now and then in 1967. It is they who send rockets into Israel, not just some hostile nation next door. This is a fact. Quit whining and change the situation on the ground. As long as you oppress them, they will fight. Wouldn't you?

The Brits have no room to talk. You went several thousand miles to fight a war over the Falklands which do not belong to you. You occupy Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales. It is time for England to grant freedom to its oppressed people. As to Israel, they have pulled out of Gaza, Lebanon, and most of the Judea and Samaria, and got rockets and suicide bombers in return.

you are a failed leader of a failed people. you let your people down.

process is quite lacking,so the "Dr." might be not really deserved. You wouldn't find many western surnames without vocals ,and adding just one would yield quite impressive quotations on Dr.Brnd.

It's too bad that Abbas has started picking up on this Israeli lingo about "red lines". Israeli politicians got this from the military, since that is the training ground for the country's politicians. "Red lines" is just not an expression that is used much outside Israel, and certainly not in the US. It is bad negotiations to set out beforehand all the things that you won't accept. Notice that Obama and the State Dept. talk about "principles" on which a solution should be based, not "red lines".

All appear to be OBLIGATIONS that Israel agreed to be bound by back when it signed the Road Map. 1) A COMPLETE settlement freeze Yep, that's in the Road Map. 2) Reopening Orient House. Yeah, that's in there too. 3) Reopening all the other East Jerusalem institutions. That's there too. Israel: master at claiming that OBLIGATIONS are merely "optional extras". Israel: master at wrapping up the same goods over and over and over and over again, and each time insisting that it can sell those shop-soiled goods over and over and over again.

I think it is likely true that red lines will not work, first, because I don't think the US has the will to suggest them and if they did, Israel would certainly not have the will to accept them. Nevertheless, rational and fair minded red lines could usefully band world opinion around a single solution. The '67 borders are no longer workable; Israel has seen to that with its forever building on occupied land. But the '67 borders with reasonable modifications to insure defense and appropriate land swaps to assure a viable Palestinian state would serve as a goal to strive for. A fair division of Jerusalem would also be a useful goal for the world to stand behind. It is true, ideals rarely work, but they are worth keeping an eye on and striving for.

Never, Abbas. If you are willing to accept some red lines on your side then you can talk. In other words, no bogus "right of return."

Lieberman says that Israel won't make any more gestures to the Palestinians. I guess he means that Israel won't dismantle the dozens of illegal outposts, will not stop expropriating Arab land, will not decrease the hundreds of checkpoints, and will continue to allow only a minimum of food and medicine into Gaza and keep Gaza a giant prison. For all the right wing supporters of the current Israeli government I have one question to ask you. How would you behave if the situations were reversed and it was the Jews being treated this way? As Defense Minister Barak once said "If I were a Palestinian I would be a terrorist." No Jew would allow others to treat them the way we are treating the Palestinians. That's not an opinion. That's a fact.

... in Israel's policies if he and his PA aren't ready to make that decisive change for their part? It's illogical, Abbas. Or it's simply the old trite poker game that nobody can take seriously anymore, apart perhaps from old hardcore players, desperate recidivist losers.

Israel will ignore any red lines from America. After all, what will America do? Attack them? Sanction them? Not likely. We will just have to wait until we have a bloody war in which Israel is so badly hurt that they seek peace. Nothing else will do.

What say you and all your poor little pathetic Palestinians you pretend to care about so much just go find an Arab country to take you in? Iran would love to have you, I'm sure. They could always use a few million more Islamic radicals to fill the streets in those pro-government rallies they've been having lately. And you won't have to live under Israeli rule anymore. Isn't that your ultimate goal?

the thievery of the MP's and their expenses which they shoved down the throats of the Brits. It's inconveneient.

The history of the Israeli conflict is hard to reconstruct but: 1947-49 lots of things happened. I do not know who fired the first shot (depends where you want to start). I do know in the end 800000 palestinians could not return to their land. 29 October 1956 Israel attacked Egypt (Suez crises) after first signing a treaty with France and England. (Protocol of Sèvres) On June 5, 1967, Israel launched a preemptive attack on Egypt. In 73 Egypt and Syria attacked March 14, 1978, Israel launched Operation Litani Lebanon War, began on 6 June 1982, when the Israel Defense Forces invaded southern Lebanon (and occupied several years) Your history is just a bit one sided. It is time to end it all and talk peace. almost 80% of Palestine is no bad deal.

....than they already have. Which is the temporary freeze, the easing of roadblocks and the building of the Palestinian West Bank economy. Hear me clearly, THERE WILL BE NO PEACE AGREEMENT IN THE NEAR TERM. Instead, there will be a quiet peace of sorts. Kind of what is going on now. The Palestinians will build a quasi state, with Israel's help, while never "compromising" their big demands. Things will improve for the Palestinians significantly in this sort of "un-official" peace. If the PA would stop it's state sponsored incitement then in ten years or so a chance for a real peace agreement could take place. If not, then the quiet peace will continue. There will be occasional flare up's and certainly Hamas and Hezbollah are big problems with the Iranian threat really looming. But, as far as West Bank "Palestine", things will continue to evolve to an "un-official" peace. We all would probably be better off if it stopped being such a cornerstone of the news, etc.

We've already given away 78% of our PRECIOUS PALESTINE. For certain that we CANNOT give more of it, there is no reciprocity anymore, we cannot keep 78% and give you 22%, as you 've done. You want Peace and Security then come to the NEGOCIATING Table.

... in Israel's policies if he and his PA aren't ready to make that decisive change for their part? It's illogical, Abbas. Or it's simply the old trite poker game that nobody can take seriously anymore, apart perhaps from those old hardcore players, desperate recidivist losers.

If you are a medical doctor or dentist, you would be listed in the respective College for those professions. If you are a PhD, some of your publishings would be available on Google. Yet, nothing. How come?

Your obsession with the Jewish State of Israel has pathological colors. You keep cheering anything and everything anti Israel but Israel continues to prevail. Must be frustrating as hell?

To put the record straight Mr Abbas never graduate from Moscow and he was born in Palestinian town called Safad before there was something called state of Israel.

Then all the land would be shared. One man, one vote, NO TO APARTHEID, equal rights, equal employment opportunities and true equality for every Pisraeli citizen. Even the Falasha Mura would be treated as equal Jews. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness will triumph over racism and bigotry. Salaam/Shalom

or any other kind of favorable jestures because they are incapable of this, because they see the world is waiting, waiting they also have been emboldened to do as they please. Example the illegal european arrest warrents for a defensive war against terrorists, if the eu or britian had motars and rockets fired within there borders then would crush the offeneders and rightly so. Why is it that Israel is held always to a differant standard ?

Arabs can't give legitimacy to ethnic cleansing it is go against the Holy book of nobel Quran.

If Abbas doesn't want to talk thats just fine for Israel, no pressure to make even tiny concessions. It means no palestinian entity will be created and they can continue to rot in the camps for another 60 years. Right now Obama is in the White House and he is the most pro arab & anti Israel the US has ever had since Jimmy Carter. Obama wants to create a palestinian entity but Abbas is blowing his chances and time is running out. In Nomeber there are midterms in the US and the closer to November the more pressure Obama will be under by the Democrats to ease off on Israel because they don't want the anti Israel Democrat president costing Democrat senators jewish votes. After the midterms Obama will be going into an election year and thats not the right time to be getting tough on Israel if you want the jewish vote AIPAC is a powerful lobby group that neither Democrat senators or presidents want to take on. Abbas is fast running out of time through his own stupidity.

in '47-'48 it became 51% isreal and 49% palestine (the jews were a 20% minority, owning only 7% of the land in 47%) and at this tiome there is only 22% of the land left to palestine with 78% to the jews....and half of that is 'in dispute' by the jews...now what does the mucle and brain bound leiberman think would be an appropriate 'gesture' from the PA?

It is time the scoundrel understands that America does not take orders from Islamist-Jihadists. It is time he learns to grovel to America instead of expecting America to grovel to him.

and his goverement whos this is their policy. As long as Bib PM there is no chance for any peace effort in the ME. Mitchell and the US should stop wating time and money on this goverement and adapt Friedman advice; call us when you ready.

Seriously, Lieberman, what kind of gestures have you been giving? Has it been something vulgar and obscene? I don't feel there is much of a peaceful way towards Palestinians with more settlements, trying to make Arab-Israelis swear a loyalty oath which reminds me of the 1930s or something. What does Lieberman want next? An Israeli Inquisition for Arab-Israelis? As far as the Palestinians, UN 242 and 338 states that Israel should exchange land for peace. The annexation of East Jerusalem is not legal. It's illegal. Do we all want peace or not? The PLO does, but the Israeli Government wants a surrender.

Peace talks will never work until Palestinians and Arabs recognize the legitimacy of the JEWISH state. They did not do so in 1948 and will not do so now!

If the man had a brain, He'd be dangerous.

"From what planet is this guy"? Not from one in our solar system :o)

I believe he is actually encouraging the Palestinians not to pursue the Goldstone Report, and the Israeli government will look upon the Palestinian question fairly. The fact is the Goldstone genie is out of the bottle and it will be incredibly hard for western governments to put it back in the bottle. It is no longer just down to the Palestinians to bury The Goldstone report, it is down to the United Nations, and more importantly the American Veto. Which might be neutralised if China doesn't veto sanctions against Iran. Interesting times.

All of you who criticize Israel completely ignore the context that gave rise to her presence in Gaza & the WB, the unprovoked and repeated attacks on & murder of Jews prior to 1949, the unprovoked attack on Israel in 1949 and 1967 to reakuze the avowed goal of eliminating Jews and Israel from the area, the denial to Jews of access to their holiest site since the slaugter in Jerusalem of Jews in the early 20th century, the continued refusal to recognize Israel and worse attacks on its citizens with bombs, rockets and suicide bombers. Incitement, dam tooten! At home in Gaza and the WB Israelies and Jews are demonized and in the international forum you cry like babies because Israel and Jews have finally decided to fight back. Cry babies cry and be crazy, sacrifice more of your own. I just feel sorry for Pal kids. The alternative is to simply to understand your enemies perspective, ackowledge their right to live in peace (these are gestures) & negotiate a settlement.

This is peaceful protest in the world...they hsould re double their efforts its working

The PA promises to stop terror-organizations from conducting terrorism that hadn't been previously planned and does not happen in certain areas. Sounds like about an even match for the "freeze" gesture that Bibi did. Lieberman is just dangerous, from an outsider's perspective it is scary to see the way he carries on without being opposed or challenged.

Since Oslo, the so-called peace process was a one way street: Israel let terrorist PLO return from Tunisia, kept transfering historical Jewish lands to PA, and kept releasing Palestinian terrorists. In return, Pals never stopped inciting against Israel, never formally recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, and their demands were growing every time Israel was making doogwill gestures.

From what planet is this guy?

Give them more land and realty. They haven't got enough of it.

"First and foremost, they must stop their incitement against Israel in the international arena." ..."incitement"?... is that what truth is called nowadays...? ...does Yvet really expect the Pals to sing-our-praises for stealing their land, property and resources...?

Israelis have been very kind and generous to the Palestinians, and they prove that again and again in so many ways, they confuscate their land so to cultivate it, they build a wall to protect them, they destroy their houses in order to build more modern ones, they kill thousands of them in Gaza to relief populated areas, and they put thousands of their bad guys in jails. What do Israelis get in return?! not even a gesture of good will!!

What favour you can expect from your slaves or helpless people living under occupation? Slaves and occupied people have only a tongue to complaint which Lieberman calls as "incitement". It is the master or occupying power which could do favours with his slaves or occupied people. The slogan looks pretty arrogant devoid of any rational or logic.

... maybe I missed something, but when did we last make a positive, decent, honest gesture towards the Pals...?!