Abbas: No peace talks until Israel adheres to road map

the only peace isreal wants is the peice of land it can t have (west bank)

L: "Since the roadmap called for the disarming and dismantling of terrorist groups like Hamas, " Actually, it called for the PA security forces to increase its efforts against terrorist groups, not to "disarm and dismantle" them. After all, the IDF (an incomparably more powerful force) spent decades attempting the same, and failed. L: "perhaps Abbas would like to announce a date when he will have his part of the deal complete." Perhaps at about the time that ISRAEL allows his PA security forces safe passage between the West Bank (where the PA is) and Gaza (where the Hamas forces are). There is not much Abbas can do when the 4th most powerful army on Earth is blocking his path, and his guys have nothing more potent than AK-47s.....

Abbas has been traveling a lot and probably talking to oil magnates. Maybe he doesn't know. Earth's climate is warming and there are no indications that Hell is freezing to compensate.. You have a long wait.

On many occasions, SDHD has evinced a remarkable talent for insulting his opponents in puerile fashion. Now he makes clear that he cannot read. Perhaps that is one reason why he relies upon vituperative language. Cummings is making the point, which should be critically examined in scholarly fashion, that the Zionist claim that Jews had a millenarian right to govern Palestine, either totally or partially, cannot be rationally redeemed. SDHD launches his predictable attack against a claim cummings did not make. As a Jew committed to thinking critically and autonomously, and concerned with cultivating what is humane and progressive about Judaism, I hope that non-Jewish readers will not conclude that SDHD's scurrilous distortions detract from the courageous work being done by the new Israeli historians and by Jewish activists opposed to Greater Israel lunacy.

the disarming and dismantling of terrorist groups like Hamas, as well as the cessation of building in the settlements, perhaps Abbas would like to announce a date when he will have his part of the deal complete. If he does, the Israelis might be willing to take him seriously.

Make peace with the West Bank. Mr Abbas sounds truthful; "There is one thing I will not accept:a return to violence." It doesn't matter if Hamas won't accept it. It can be a provisional peace. Hamas can affiliate/join later, once they see the growing prosperity. There would be no shortage of investors, in not only in the west Bank but Israel as well.

Abbas is correct: 1) There is NO POINT entering into any negotiations with a "partner" that sees itself as entitled to abrogate prior agreements. Obviously not, because any future "agreements" with such a "partner" will not be worth the paper they are written on. 2) Israel's refusal to carry out its obligations under the Road Map does impede the peace process. It says so in the Road Map itself: "Should the parties perform their obligations rapidly, progress within and through the phases may come sooner than indicated in the plan. Non-compliance with obligations will impede progress." Abbas is right, guys, and Netanyahu's obstinacy is *the* obstacle in the way of peace. Not Abbas. Netanyahu.

SDHD: "Actually, they do, cummings. Jews were living outside the 67 borders all the way up until 1948." And according to the Partition Plan every single one of those Jews was to become a "Jewish citizen of the Arab State". Chapter 3 of the Partition Plan, SDHD. Therefore the presence of those Jews pre-1948 does NOT give "the Jewish state" any legal claim to that territory, and the expulsion of those Jews 1947-49 did NOT suddenly create a legal claim when none had previously existed. You argument is a non-sequitur, SDHD, being akin to Abbas arguing that *because* 20% of the popln of Israel is Arab *then* the PLO can claim 20% of Israel's territory.

then we are willing to negotiate for everything we didn't get.

I don't believe its in Abbas' interest to try and play hardball with the Israelis. As it stands Mr. Abbas is on the short end of the stick. He is looking to gain independence and land back so its a bit ironic he would be trying to call the shots. Israel for her part is in the process of implementing a ten month settlement freeze. A pretty unprecendant move. Those that question its legitimacy should just read the daily confrontation with the settlers. Obviously its real and genuine and Abbas needs get his head out of his ass and get back to the negotiationg table. Instead issuing useless dictums to Israel he should be preparing his people for a realistic peace with Israel. One that entails compromise such as no right of return for the few refugees left. Israelis are aware of the painful compromises that will ensue from a final peace its time for the Palestinians to grow and realize reality and stop living in a dream world.

Does Abbas speak on behalf of all PAL including hamas? My opinion the answer is no, so how can there be any peace talks? Convince me that Abbas does speak on behalf of hamas too. Someone, Anyone??

RC:"But the `Palestinians` are not a party to the agreement, the PA is. The PA has done everything stipulated there. If its rule does not run to the secessionist `state` of Gaza, that is life." If you buy a house and before settling the contract the agent tells you that the garage, pool, backyard and driveway are no longer part of the deal, you would walk away from the contract. No-one would expect you to complete your end of the deal at full price with no questions asked. Israel signed up to Roadmap to get "peace". That's what Israel was buying, "peace". Roadmap can no longer deliver peace because of Hamas and Gaza. What is Israel buying now? Nothing. Roadmap is void unless Abbas can put back into the contract what was always meant to be there in the first place. And we all know that he can't do that.

Instead of hurling insults at anyone who criticizes Israel take a look at post # 29 from B. Gold. It tells the whole story about the Jewish Republic of Israel and the minority settler/thugs who are dominating the discussion. Israel can continue to build settlements, create an apartheid state, militarily occupy the West Bank and create a prison out of Gaza ..... but Israel will never live in peace. 22 Arab nations offered Israel full recognition and diplomatic ties in exchange for Israel to pull back to the 67 borders. What was Israel's reaction? No thank you.

It is not pre-67, go back to the borders 4000 - 6000 years ago. If you are going back, go all the way back. The Pals and Arabs have a vast majority of land in the ME - Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, Egypt,... Can the people of Israel not exist peacefully without someone trying run them into the sea. For heavens sake, leave Israel alone!

........."The state of Israel has no legal title to Palestine" well, if You take your logic a little further and apply it less biased, you must also state that Palestine has no legal claim for Palestine. :-) neither the ancient Philistines nor today's Arabs - nor the Canaanites , etc. - so no Jewish, no Christian, no Muslim "Palestinian" (the area is called like that since the roman times) - but maybe the Homo neanderthalensis (check Tabun - Mount Carmel)

Abbas announces that negotiations would only happen if we surrender and ethnically cleansed Jews. Hamas announces that genocide is their only policy. The most moderate Arab is more extreme than the most extremist Jew.

How many times have we seen this? There is an agreement or a resolution. The Palestinians don't like it and act out violently, attempting to achieve more than the agreement or resolution allows. The violence sets them back. They are worse off than they were before. They attempt to rewind the clock back to the agreement/resolution that they demolished through their violent outburst.

All this discussion of a Palestinian State and the mis-guided emphasis on where Jews can live is just a distraction and a ruse. If the Palestinans and the Arab States actually wanted a Palestinan state, then such a state would have been created in the vast, empty Sinai when Israel returned it to Egypt. Don't you think that the Jews of pre-state Israel would have leapt at the opportunity to have even a smaller state if it meant a place of refuge for the Jewish nation and Jews trying to flee the Holocaust?

"1967 borders do not reflect historical rights" Actually, they do, cummings. Jews were living outside the 67 borders all the way up until 1948. Jordan capturing and ethnically cleansing every single Jew from East Jerusalem and the West Bank doesn't alter those rights.

"Israel committed itself to freezing ALL settlement building 6 years ago as part of the roadmap but has never honoured its undertaking for even a single day." Cummings, my poor brain dead child... The Palestinians committed themselves to a bilateral plan. Here's phase 1: Phase I (as early as May 2003): End to Palestinian violence; Palestinian political reform; Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian cities and freeze on settlement expansion; The Palestinians were supposed to be the first to act. They did not end violence and they did not reform politically. Israel DID withdraw from Palestinian cities and did freeze settlement expansion for awhile. Stop lying so much, cummings. Your lies are so transparent and easy to demonstrate. Why do you persist?

Negotiations are worthless unless they have to honor their past agreements. Abbas right on this point even though the PA is very lacking in living up to its agreements. In the past 6yrs Israel's goals have changed with land for a greater Israel more important that the need for peace. I fear that history will repeat if a peace deal if not reached in next 10yrs. The Muslim countries are quickly learning from Israel in how to reach its goals.

You want that? OK. BUT not in Israel. No way. Not now. Not ever. Put this Arab state in Dubai or Kuwait or Saudi Arabia or Libya or Syria. Make it big. Fill it with the Po' Arab "refugees". And with the Arabs of Gaza and Samaria and Judea (AKA West Bank). And treasonous Arabs who have Israeli citizenship. Build a big fence around it. Let them learn to develop the infrastructure of a state. Or let them destroy themselves, if that's what they prefer. If they ever become civilized, then it's time to consider letting them join the human race. About historical facts : http://xrl.us/be5xdg

History is not on Israel's side, and history is not the past which is gone and never to return. Events in the remote past is what people try to use to validate their actions in the present. If we discard the davidic-Solomonic united monarchy as a Biblical myth, which it is, all we are left with is the hasmonaean-Herodian monarchy which lasted two centuries inspite of its corrupt nature. 2 centuries do not make an alibi for a complete takeover of the territories west of the Jordan. israel's position is unsustainable and will not garner international support.

We should learn from past mistakes. Let us take votes before any concession is made. Bibi, stay strong don't give in to pressure. In time, the enemies will realize that the Jews are an important element on this earth. They too can benefit from us, because the Jews are good people.

Hamas will never allow elections in gaza so what is the back up plan?? Abbas cannot resign and then stay in office forever. Get real. Fatah must each fight hamas or accept the fact that gaza is no longer part of any deal.

Interpretation to GC's is required. One that takes into account issues like this. For example, hypothetically, A peace deal is agreed to tmrw,YAY, a year later, Palestinians decide to attack, what is Israel's recourse? to defend and reoccupy the land. If the demographics are still such that annexation will destroy Jewihs majority and as such State of Israel, Israel has no recourse except what just happened. This is why an addition to GCIV is needed. One that deals with an instance like what we have here. one that gives Israel, in the event of the abovementioned hypothetical real security and poses real threats to the aggressive belligerent. Like,"Aggressive belligerent (AB) party does not have rights under GCIV". Citizens must also play a much more active part in DEM. so that if a state chooses to be an (AB) its people have been included in the choice and are therefore culpable in the punishment and lack of rights. This works both ways & in other cases similar 2 Isr-pal confl

Hamas from the PA but that logic could then be extended to Israel to state that the people who signed this agreement were a coalition of persons from Group X and we, a new coalition as elected by the voters represent Group Y. What is the difference? If Israel is bound by the agreements of its predecessors, than why is Hamas not bound the agreements of its predecessors. Furthermore, the fact that PA now lacks the power to contain the poison that it released, is no excuse. When PA Signed Road Map, it held Gaza, it is liable to maintain a standard, the standard of the time. It cannot state that since it can't maintain the standard agreed to that it is no longer bound to the agreement while Israel is. Couldn't your logic be used by Israel to say that Settler's r defiant to state, similar to Hamas and PA, if Israel issues freeze and settlers don't listen, can Israel wipe it hands of Settlers like you allow PA to wipe hands free of Hamas? & then where r we, farther

Yes Boruch. But Israel's 'historical rights' to Palestinian land are about as valid legally as Roman, Assyrian or Ottoman ones - none of them has any valid legal claim at all. This is what the international courts, the UN, even the Israeli High Court have been telling Israel for 42 years now: old ethnic-religious land claims from a couple of millenia back are not accepted in modern law. Stands to reason really - if every temporary occupying tribe in recorded history was to be given back land it once lived on, the whole world would be in a state of continual land wars for the next thousand years. 'We Tatar descendants were here first". "Oh no you weren't, our Illyrian ancestors passed this way'. "What about we Italians, whose legions conquered both of you?", etc., etc. The state of Israel has no legal title to Palestine.

Chip by chip, Abbas is trying to chip away Israel into nothingness by way of Taqiyya and manipulations of external entities. His 1967 crap is just their code for the destruction of Israel as spelled out in their Charter. Israel should not be fooled by their crap. The only reason why they want a large chunk of tiny Israel is to fulfill their Charter that calls for the destruction of Israel. Israel should remain resolute and strong in the face of these challenges and say NO, NO, NO to the dark forces. Israel should continue to care for their own people who will insure its existence. Israel needs to continue building and developing its liberated historic homeland of Judea and Samaria to provide for their own people.

One difference is that much of the world notice Gilani's hypocrisy (he revealed candidly in August 2009 his idea of peace being "impossible", though this was only printed in an immigrants-catered DC-area paper--due to his being caught "trousers at ankles" about the 10 butchers his country's ISI sent to Mumbai--and are NOT swayed by his shills, unlike the case of Abbas. Neither Gilani nor Abbas wants peace (Abbas, like his worse-dressed model-0 clone Arafat, shows in Arabic that he hates Jews as vitriolically as overextended al-Husseinis), as both of them are products of hatred-based ideologies (the very term "Palestinian" was invented by ultra-anti-Jewish viperous Jerusalem-mufti Haj-amin Husseini).

What to do with Hamas, since they are saying they will not honor any PLO agreement made. Since Hamas represents 1.2 mil Gazans I just don't see how the PLO will enforce any agreement made with Israel. As I've stated before there must be clear cut consequences for any breach of agreement. If Israel can successfully negotiate a peace deal with the PLO, Hamas must be on board. When Israel is attacked it would be by a Country(Palestine). It will be an act of war against Israel, Israel then should have the same right as any nation to strike back without any restrictions. No accusations of disproportionate force will matter nor should they. Only then will a piece of paper hold the peace. When consequences are severe it makes other-side think twice before acting. This is how it must be or it will not work.

'for Abbas to say no talks until full settlement freeze, is for Israel to retort, no talks until you get rid of Hamas.' That doesn't work Eli. The roadmap is an agreement between two state entities, the GOI and PA. It can only relate to their respective territories and the citizens therein. Where the roadmap uses the term 'the Palestinians' it is sloppy shorthand - the PA cannot speak for or control all Pals in the world, anymore than the GOI can all Israelis or Jews. The roadmap says: 'Palestinians declare an unequivocal end to violence and terrorism and undertake visible efforts on the ground to arrest, disrupt, and restrain individuals and groups etc., etc.' But the 'Palestinians' are not a party to the agreement, the PA is. The PA has done everything stipulated there. If its rule does not run to the secessionist 'state' of Gaza, that is life. Maybe if Israel gives it a land corridor or air access, it can send troops in and take Gaza over. If not, Hamas is out of the equation.

If it would not be sad it would be funny. When will the Palestinians adhere to the Road Map. It seems to me that Abbas has rejected the Road Map and never intended to follow it.

at the Munich Olympic Games. Negotiating with and surrendering land to terrorists breaks international law and spits on the graves of the Jewish athletes murdered at Munich. No more evil and immoral surrenders to barbaric, implacable enemies! Re-take Gaza. Declare sovereignty over Judea, Samaria and Gaza. Enablers of global jihad, weak and powerless Western leaders imperil the entire Free World with their disgraceful belief that the only way to deal with constant Islamic violence is to surrender.

If israel is serious it must stop putting its colonizers in the West Bank and start a true negotiations Palestinian lost 60 years of useless meetings with israel

The 1920 San Remo agreement is the only LEGAL and STILL VALID basis of borders. Resolution 242 in 1947 was only a recommendation, but the legal agreement is the 1920 agreement drawn up by the victors of WW1. The signatures and contract have not been abrogated. Israel was never meant to be carved up by the Arabs. THERE'S the LEGAL PRECEDENT and it must be affirmed.

Agreed my friend, let's face it, Israel is losing a PR battle. it is most evident from 2000 Camp David and how the great offer is now called the Mythical Offer, how we stood on the precipice of peace and rather than Shake hands and smoke a ciggarette like with Jordan, Arafat decided to start an Intifada which israel took the brunt of on both ends, the death and destruction end and the PR end. In Canada, we'd read about how a bus was blown up and how the people on it almost deserved their fate due to Israel's actions, that makes absolutely no sense and I'd love to hear somoene try to defend it. So, Israel, give a full freeze 10 months on the condition of PERFECT CALM,one with actual goodwill, when this isn't achieved, due to Pal terrorism, ensure you have a PR campaign that shows the true side of Palestinian politics and the tell the world, we tried, we gave the 10 months, now F-OFF because we will not take anymore risks for you, that is fair in my opinion, more than fair.

the palestine mandate is already partitioned and an arab palestine exists in jordan since 1922!

1967 borders are nothing more then a demorcation line of 1948 war launched by Arab nations against Israel. Particlualrly, during this war Jordan managed to occupy East Jerusalem, which Israel liberated in 1967. The pre-1967 borders are irrelevant and do not reflect historical rights of Jews for the land of Israel and for Jerusalem.

Palestinians are divided in two authorities. This is a fact. For a complete halt of violence it takes convincing Hammas that accepts the road map. Still I think that it is logical Abbas demand. Israel should totally freeze including Jerusalem as a gesture to Hammas and Obama. At the end of the day Palestinian will not be able to accomplish the next stages of a peace process. Israel has nothing to lose in freezing for 10 months or a year.

Doesn't that also mean that Abbas, as representative of the Palestnian Authority, is bound by the Road Map. And doesn't the road map, w/amendments to which Israel agreed to the Road Map, to take them out does negate Israel's agreement to the road map as it changes the dynamic completelty. Israel states that there will be no step skipping, each step must be fully completed before moving forward. One of those steps is a cease in settlement construction and one of those steps is the eradication of terrorists. Well since the Road Map signing, terrorist have gained an entire enclave of what will hopefully form a Palestinian state. So for Abbas to say no talks until full settlement freeze, is for Israel to retort, no talks until you get rid of Hamas. So Abbas, best to keep your mouth shut, as you don't have the means to live upto your side of the bargain, you are in default and insolvent, Israel might be too but it has the means maybe not desire, you, Abbas, seem to lack both.

Israel committed itself to freezing ALL settlement building 6 years ago as part of the roadmap but has never honoured its undertaking for even a single day. It is amazing that the USA lets Israel get away with complete dishonesty and sticking two fingers up to the UN. Israel needs to do now what it pledged to do, enough is enough. This nationalist settlement enterprise causes more problems and aggro in the Middle East than any other single issue.

For someone (the quitter) who has nothing underfoot to support himself, he blows a lot of empty wind... In fact it's more like breaking winds as well as blowin' in the winds... just hot enflaming airs. to be ignored and taken with a large grain of salt.

until there is reconciliation between the pal factions there is no point in nogotiations... hamas will not recognize peace with Israel... Also it seems every time Israel meets a demand of the Pals to start the talk(settlement freeze), the pals up the ante(pre 1967 borders)... Someone should remind Abbas that the 1967 borders were between Israel and Jordan and Egypt...

In your wildest dreams Mahmoud! Zoheir Muhsin, head of the PLO Military Operations Department and member of the PLO Executive Council (1977), said it best: "The existence of a separate Palestinian identity is there only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new expedient to continue the fight against Zionism and for Arab unity." The West expects the Palestinians to disappoint and they never fail to oblige. The Palestinians need to wake up and stop believing that they have once again succeeded in deceiving themselves into thinking that they are deceiving everyone else.

Pre 1967 border or pre 1948 border?

Israel has already decided on borders for PA state and they are "A" areas and Gaza. This is to restrict Muslim growth and not have to address the refugee problem which most still live in camps. The US/EU/Russia want to use modified Saudi plan which would weaken and limit RoR due to over crowding, the southern half of Israel is desert and barely fit for living with little water. Israel must keep negotiations going in order to stop or delay any actions by US/EU/Russia until facts on the ground make it impossible to use the modified Saudi plan. Also if plan used then with land swap Israel get most the good land while the PA gets desert without water. The limited freeze is a joke in many ways but it does show how strongly the settlers will fight to stop any deal in which B and C areas are lost. The choice is now in US hands if there will be a peace deal and in many ways it always has been but settlers now have a veto of their own that could make any peace deal very hard.

Abbas tries to pretend that nothing has happened between Israel and the wider Arab world. Yes, the Arab world that has sent its armies on numerous occasions to wipe Israel off the map. So Mr. Abbas, I suggest that in order to show that you are serious about peace and in order for Israel to commit to future borders as you are requesting, cut your ties with the Arab world to show Israel that there will not be a next time. How else can we possibly trust you not to position arms and troops 16 Km from Tel-Aviv that can become an existential threat to Israel?

has he recognised israel as a jewish state yet ??

Abbas is right in this one. There is no point in negotiating new agreements when either side simply says it won't keep its previous agreements. This is what the Israeli Government states with regard to settlements. This applies to the Palestinians as well. The mediators (quartet etc.) simply fail when they don't point this out clearly and repeatedly.