A.B. Yehoshua versus Diaspora Jews

You are in denial Chiam. The antisemites cringe at the truth that Hitler's mother was Jewish. That's why it was hidden for so long. Stop denying that, and stop denying that the Jewish leadership failure to return to Israel at the turn of the 20th Century was the primary cause of the Holocaust. The reason Herzl and Balfour are not well taught in Israel is part of that mass denial. The sooner you deal with that, and that Hitler's mother was Jewish, the sooner you and others will begin to start thinking clearly about other things like the word Jew does not mean Israelite, and the Israelites have suffered massively over centuries for accepting such a bad moniker. Then you will see the Biblical "Gathering" with eyes cleansed of the xenophobia you say everyone else has (practically). Jews are probably the smartest people on earth as a group. They will go from being smartest to the most excellent thinkers when this fog is gone from your eyes. Love ya Chiam, but listen to me. JI 5-26-0

There is nothing new in Yehoshua's negation of the diaspora. It is based on the assumption that Israeli and not Jewish identity is what it is all about for the Am Yisroel. In his version Judaism is a subparagraph on the main subject of Israel. For the Jew to whom the Sinai revelation is the defining moment of Am Yisroel's identity (see Ex. 19-20) Medinat Israel is a subparagraph (a most important one, even a critical one) in Judaism. The challenge of Judaism is how to advance the Jewish agenda under all circumstances in which Jews may for historical reasons find themselves. To argue that Jews in the diaspora have not role to play in the enterprise of Jewish history, is narrow minded as well as wrongly oriented. It is understandable for those secular zionists, like Yehoshua, to whom it is only "land", "language" and history which give meaning to their "Jewish" lives, the rejection of Jewish life under the impact of the vision of Torah is meaningless. Not for those defined by Torah.

Moses traveled for centuries before being denied entry to the land he had tried so long to reach. Why would such a thing occur to Moses? His pursuit of - - reflects his struggle with the meaning of a Jewish identity. The ground over which he walked did not ask him to be there.

Moses traveled for centuries before being denied entry to the land he had tried so long to reach. Why would such a thing occur to Moses? His pursuit of - - reflects his struggle with the meaning of a Jewish identity. The ground over which he walked did not ask him to be there.

if hitlers mom was Jewish, he is Jewish. This is an antisemetic lie which is simply not true. Regardless, he understood, as well documented, that if the Jew could be destroyed, Paganism would return to Europe. This is the mantra of the Hitler youth songs and well documented in his final solution. 90 percent of my family became Martyrs from his plan but we live on since the beginning. We have the same intention...to bring knowledge of the the thue G-d to the world till the day when the whole world will know "He is one and his name is One". True about Tel Aviv, but rest assured, we will see the day when a Rabbi will take the role of the rightgeous Mashiach and the rightgeous Goyem will know what they have to do and have been fighting for so well. Zacharia 14 clearly states the Goyem will have a monument in the final Temple for their efforts..search Messiah on chabad.org and stop waisting so much of your efforts on a lefty secular newspaper site best regards Chiam

In addition to being a descendant of Jacob/Israel or marrying or being adopted by one, to be a true Israelite, one must worship the God of Israel and the One, who is the only True God of the Universe, in truth and spirit. I understand that Tel a Viv is full of Jews who do not either believe or worship Him. Speaking the Hebrew that neither David nor Jacob spoke will give any Israeli including you an advantage over me with this Israelite God. "The Lord looketh upon the heart." I am sure that your Bible says that same exact thing with different symbols. Shalom, Peace be with you. JI 5-22-06.

Your best expert and "Mother Law" says that the former Miss Shekelgrubber and her very nice son Adolph [Hitler] are "Jews" [sic:Israelites], and that I'm not. No wonder you didn't hear Herzl's call to return to Israel before it was too late. You were too busy telling yourselves how smart you are. Pompous ass, 6,000,000 people died because of that mentality, and my Dad had to be wounded 5 times for you, to say nothing of the thousands who died for you. An Israelite is a descendant of Jacob [Israel]. "Jew" is a Biblical dirty word for the top leadership of Judah who were carried away captive into Babylon. The word didn't exist until then, or are you too illiterate about the Bible to know that?. When you have Jew/Israelite and Herzl right, I will teach you what the Bible really says. Until then, try reading what it really says and kiss the experts good bye. JI 5-22-06.

Israelite not Jew Israelite not Jew Religious did not follow Herlz and paid. Religious did not follow Herlz and paid. Shows religious not so religious. Shows religious not so religious.

The Persian Jewish communities in America have strong family and community values. That same sense of community does not exist in Israel because of integration- a positive and neccessary phenomenon in Israel. When the American Jews finally all assimilate, it will probably be a Persian Jew who turns off the lights.

The only true G-d is with all people who let him. But we have always been the miners canary as his firstborn and eternal peoiple "until the heavens and the earth exist no more". The holocost was the biproduct of Eurpeans going almost back to their pagan origins, which necessitates the ellimination of the Jew who imposed morality on the world. We may be fighting for the same G-d, but dont claim you know Aleph Bet about Judaism, because its clear that you dont. Believe it or not, Best Regards Chaim

Anyone who knows anything about the 12 basic principles of faith as detailed by the Rambam (the greatest religious scholor of the last 1000 years) knows that it will be an orthodox Jew who becomes the Messiah and all nations will again acknoledge the Jews (the Cohens, specifically) as G-ds preists and that temple service will be restored. A 6 year old studying the true Bible also knows that if your mother is not a Jew, you are not part of the people unless you convert. I dont have the time to eductate the completely illiterate. I can recommend some books, if you wish. Sincerely Chiam

It is nothing but sheer arrogance that can state that "only Israel and not religion, could ensure the survival of the Jewish people". Religion has proven itself against all odds (including the lack of our holy State) for two thousand years. It is sadly obvious to the naked eye, that so many of our Israeli patriots who didn't understand the value of religion have now given up on the State and even live elsewhere. It is only the combination of both religion and the State that will make us a whole and healthy people.

Hi Chiam, are we friends now (cousins?). The Israelites are God's eternal people, and not using vowels will not save you, today or eternally, regardless of what the non-Levi/Aaron Rabbis have to say about it. The Gathering is for all the tribes. The reason you (Judah) lost the kingdom(s) in the first place was this xenophobic "innishness" (Jews are the only Israelite, etc). Here's a brief glimpse of what my Israelite descended family has already done for you. The General saved the remnant of the European Jews from utter destruction. My Dad, an associate of his, marched and fought from the shores of France, across Belgium, across Czechoslovakia to the Russian border walking most of the way, was wounded 5 times, patched up 5 times and returned, was taken POW and escaped and fought the Nazi dogs til they could not fight anymore. The God of Israel was with my Dad and the General, not those who refused His call thru Herzl to return earlier. You're right, Respect is important. JI 5-21-06.

Chiam. I love it when a Jew tells me how little I know. Tells me I have Mr Insecure on the line. I love my people, Israelites (KNOW, Jew does not equal Israelite--a descendant of Jacob). Jews are 1/12 of Israel, if you add in Benjamin and the handful of Levites you are 1/6 of Israel. The reason the "Jews" switched from Priests to Rabbis just before Christ's time is that most of those eligible to be real Priests went to the other side. Unless there is some miracle from on high, the "Jews" [Yehuda-Judah] cannot miraculously tranform itself into Levi/Aaron, your "Nation of Priests", at least if you respect the Bible. Marrying "in" Judah to Judah, etc, did not become the tradition until after the end of the Babylonian Captivity. This tradition is in large part responsible for the paranoia that keeps modern Israel strapped. Israelites should marry Israelites for the most part. If one wants to marry outside of Israel, the incomer should worship the God of Israel. JI 5-21-06.

she's the one who thinks about it and talks about it all the time--this must be a projection. what do you say sigmund? (to the other person). I never personally observed any LAB experiments by/on her. I think she was being helped then. I saw that. Not by (quack) LAB personnel, but by professionals. JI 5-21-06.

As an immigrant from Iran to Israel I constantly looked for normalcy in Israel and I have yet to find it. After years of feeling a stranger and an outsider in a country that I dearly loved so much I decided to leave Israel to the U.S. where most of my immediate and distant family lived. I must say, it hurts me that I feel more belonged and productive in the U.S. than I ever did in Israel. I still love my little precious country and I hope one day I can go back and live a normal life, but I do not see it happening anytime soon, at least in my life time. The buttom line is that people have an innate need to feel belonged and secure, I simply do not think Israel is ready to provide it to most jews immigrating Israel(for raeson not clear to me); and until Israel is ready to treat all immigrants equally with understanding and respect, diaspora jews will continue their support of Isreal from "ha golah", but never from Israel as its righful citizens.

In California there are quickies. The more you pay, the shorter they are. Of course, there are debates in synagogues etc. but in Israel the challenges to your beliefs and values are ubiquitous and intense . Regarding Passover in Sinai- I have nothing to say in their defense. We too have infidels, but they are usually honest enough to admit it. AB was right.If he wasn't, there wouldn't have been such an outrage.

Major R, there is no such thing as "quickie" consversion. I don't know of anybody who took less than at least a year and usually it takes longer than a year to get a converted by a Reform Rabbi. I don't know where you get the idea that American Jews rarely get their views challenged. That is just not true. I realize that there are American Jews who care nothing about being Jewish, but for Jews who do that is a stereotype. I participate in discussions and debates at my synagogue and in classes all the time. How many Israelis spend their Passover in Egypt on a beach in the Sinai?

kFew things in Israel are automatic. Our Jewish values are continually challenged. Our holidays are often emotionally loaded: Yom Kippur is associated with the '73 war, which threatened Israel's existence. Passover reminds many of the exodus of Jews from Arab countries, and more recently from Russia and Ethiopia. Independence Day follows Memorial Day, a day when many of us visit our fallen comrades and relatives. The issue of separating church and state is a daily discussion- living as Jews in a Jewish culture while respecting the rights of others who are not Jewish or who wish to express their Jewishness in their own way. American Jews (in America) rarely have their values challenged- it's not politically correct. How many hours does a "quicky" conversion take? Israeli soldiers constantly face a dilemma serving in the occupied territories- many of the "enemy" there are the product of oppression and appartheid. It ayn't so easy!

kFew things in Israel are automatic. Our Jewish values are continually challenged. Our holidays are often emotionally loaded: Yom Kippur is associated with the '73 war, which threatened Israel's existence. Passover reminds many of the exodus of Jews from Arab countries, and more recently from Russia and Ethiopia. Independence Day follows Memorial Day, a day when many of us visit our fallen comrades and relatives. The issue of separating church and state is a daily discussion- living as Jews in a Jewish culture while respecting the rights of others who are not Jewish or who wish to express their Jewishness in their own way. American Jews (in America) rarely have their values challenged- it's not politically correct. How many hours does a "quicky" conversion take? Israeli soldiers constantly face a dilemma serving in the occupied territories- many of the "enemy" there are the product of oppression and appartheid. It ayn't so easy!

Major R, you missed my point entirely. Yes, I know that most Israelis are secular. My point was that it is easy for even a secular Jew to keep kosher in Israel, because generally that is all that is easily available. Secular Jews keep Jewish holdiays because they are national holidays and everything is closed. This can make for a more complete Jewish life, but it also can make for a life where one if just following the easiest option. It is much eaiser to be Jewish in Israel. Indeed one can keep kosher and observe the Jewish holidays without much thought or effort. This has a good and a bad side. The bad side is that Judaism becomes automatic, thoughtless, and routine. In America, unless you live in a very Jewish community, this is almost never true. You always have to plan and think about what you are doing and decide what your position is on so many options. This may sound like an argument for moving to Israel, but I think that it has a good side as well.

The majority of Israelis define themselves as secular- not atheist. Many of the secular families keep kosher, observe the holidays and frequent synagogues ( called "chapels" by some Americans) - many California families like them define themselves as "orthodox". Most of the remaining secular Jews in Israel observe the holidays and live by Jewish values- in America they would be called "conservative" Jews. At the bottom of the chain in Israel are those who would be considered "reform" Jews in America. Regarding the orthodox in Israel, perhaps excluding many of the ultra-orthodox- they seem to adapt very well to the modern egalitarian world.

You obviously have little knowledge of Judaism. 2 of the 12 principles of faith are specifically regarding the messiah and it makes up much of our prayers that we perform 3 times daily. Be careful, because when the Messiah does come (speedily in our days) he will be an orthodox Jew and you'd better learn to respect what he has to teach or else (see Zacharia 14). We are the nation of priests whos duty will soon be restored. Telling us to marry out shows your complete ignorance to what is truly going on. We are G-ds eternal people and those who observe G-ds Mitzvot are multipling and are growing with G-ds help. Learn what you can do to help.

If we don't believe that the BIBLE promised Israel that Canaan will be the state of Israel forever, then what right does Israel belong to us? Who else gave us the right retake Israel after 2000 years?

I also did not have much choice. when my family was expelled from Egypt, we could not go to neighboor Libia, nor to Jordan, Siria or iraq maybe. they were all expelling jews and stealing our properties. Israel opened its doors for us, diferent of your arab "brothers" did with the palestinians.

I can live in America because Israel exists. It is true that in Israel it would be easier because I could easily eat kosher and all the Jewish holidays are national holidays. However, it seems to me that it could very easily become an automatic kind of Judaism that one never need think about or examine what it means on a personal level. I see Judaism as spiritual path that I can apply to my daily life in the modern world. I see very little support for that kind of Jewish life in Israel. I may be wrong. Mostly what I see is Israeli Jews who are atheists or ultra-Orthodox. I don't see much effort put into adapting Judaism for a modern egalitarian world.

Most Americans, Jew and non Jew alike, identify Jews with lay down and die Judaism of the 1st half of the 20th Century. A new identity was needed to sucessfully repopulate Israel, but once again, the dead end Rabbis with their anti-Israelite anti-Messiah religion demanded the dead end name Jew. Israelite, Israelite, Israelite! Yehuda, embrace your proper tribal name and stop substituting it for Israelite. You lost the Kingdom in part because of it. Try learning a lesson almost 2500 years later. Talk about a learning curve. JI 5-17-06.

Neither Judaism nor Jewish identity can save Israel. For all intents and purposes, Judaism has lost the Messianic character it had in David's time and is therefore a religion without its original root. There is a Messiah. He is Coming. Read your Bibles and tell the Rabbis to take a hike unless they preach and practice Messianism. Jewish identity could not save the Jews in Europe. It will not save Israel. The right word, the right identity is Israelite (not Israeli). Israeli is to Israelite as Jew is to Judah, insufficent. Marry-out.

in america the jewish population (counting anyone who wants to declare themselves jewish even if their mother isnt jewish) went down 300,000 even though 300,000 entered the country. The reason ...600,000 assimilated in the last 10 years in america alone and are no longer identify themselves as jews. Isreal has the only growing population of Jews in the world.

What a large measure of self-centered malarky (to borrow from the Irish). If Judaism were right, the Holocaust would not have happened and everyone would have followed Herzl back to Irael before it was too late. God does not massively punish His people except for disobedience and massive sin, not in Egypt,not in Assyria, not in Babylon and not in the Holocaust. Judah is 1/12 of Israel (the country is rightly called Israel, not Judea). If you add in your fellows the Benjamites, that gives you 1/6 of Israel. The right of Israel come from God and the Bible, not from Judah. Yehoshua is a Joseph/Ephraim name. His inferior counterpart was your tribesman Caleb, a smart boy, but not in Joshua's league--so saith Moses. When you figure out how to identify members of the other Ten Tribes and integrate them into Israeli society, you will then be on God's "Gathering" path, no longer singing the one note samba, "Me me me me".

Yehoshua - move to Uganda! Without Judaism, there is no basis for the State of Israel to exist.

I've been living in Jerusalem for the past 3 years. I was raised as a traditionalist Jew in the Americas. I attended a Jewish day school, was a member of a Zionist youth movement, etc., and always felt strongly identified with Israel and its fundamental role in the survival of the Jewish people in the contemporary world. However, in these last 3 years I've only managed to become alienated from (and by any means identified with) Israeli society. And from my own experience, I've come to the conclusion that Israel isn't fit for every Jew, whereas there are some fine places around the world which might prove more suitable. Thus, I don't think there's a reason to feel offended by this great Israeli author. We should in fact be thankful that we can still be Jews in many different ways, and not only as potential or actual "israelis".

Even though, I descend from Rabbis on both sides of my family, the state of Israel hesitated to give me citizenship. Now they are prepared to send me back to America in chains. This is not the Jewish homeland.

it is not the future of the jewish people that a b refers to but that of the israelis. his distorted view of the lives of jews is not unique .one would hope that the israelis realize that they are in the game for themselves and they should find ways to live not, levadd ishkon, but not levadad ishkon, that will give them better options.

MY PALESTINIAN FATHER DIED 3 YEARS AGO WITHOUT BEING ALLOWED TO RETURN TO HAIFA, THE CITY HE WAS BORN IN AND GREW UP IN. HE ALONG WITH HIS WHOLE FAMILY WERE TERRORIZED OUT OF THEIR HOME IN 1948 BY JEWISH TERRORIST GANGS. WHILE YOU ARE PICKING AND CHOOSING WHETHER TO LIVE INSIDE ISRAEL OR OUTSIDE, GIVE THAT A LITTLE THOUGHT. IT HAS TO DO A LOT WITH WHY AT LEAST PALESTINIANS HAVE THAT ANIMOSITY TOWARDS THE JEWS. "KNOWING" IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS RECONCILIATION !

Israel is very important, but the survival of the Jewish people is not dependent on Israel. The survival of the Jewish people depends on the Jewish people identifying as Jews which means adhering and practicing some form of Judaism.

Judiasm has nothing to do with religion.The name comes from an independant nation state that exisited 2000 years ago.The country was called Judea and its citizens were thus called Judians or Jews.Just like Italians come from Italy,Frenchmen from France etc.The the very term Jew or Judiasm is thus a nationalistic term not a religion.When the Nation State was destroyed by the Romans the term was corrupted to mean religion only and not the nation state.Zionisms aim,path and goal is to correct this oddity by reclaiming Judiasm and restoring it to its original role as a nation state with the huge diversity of behaviour found in all nation states.This would free Judiasm from its trapped narrow definition of itsself as areligion only. Israel should have been called Judea in 1948 then all Jews would have been connected to Judea[whether they liked it or not] in the same way that all Irish Americans etc are connected to Ireland.All Israeli Palestinians too would today be "Jews"..conflict solved?

maybe Ab should fulfill herzel zionist dream and make a state in uganda and take yossi sarid and tommy lapid with him. he might even become prime minister. nobody will miss any of these guys. happy lag bomer

"At the first AJC centennial symposium on the future of the Jewish people, Yehoshua declared that only Israel, and not religion, could ensure the survival of the Jewish people". By Shmuel Rosner (05/05/2006) well, it is kind of both - Judaism survives for 3,000 years through three states on and off, but the religion is the common denominator that unites us from wherever we are. The secular upbringing makes sure that trouble lies ahead even in Israel (see the Helenizers during the Maccabi period).

Jew can be a Jew in any part of the world - but a Zionist can live only in the State of Israel. A.B.Yehoshua is nothing more than a professional muckraker - advertising himself with ignorant and rude jabering.

So, it was the Jewish lobby that won the Yom Kippur War for Israel? Not Koach Zvika, a kibbutznik, whose tank took on a Syrian armored battalion.And not the thousands of Israeli warriors who fought on the front lines, greatly outnumbered. While many American Jews are decorating their Hannukah bushes, they should keep in mind that many Israelis are on (or behind)the front lines, putting their lives on the line. A little perspective, please!

Another indirect response to Yehoshua anachronism could be learned from the Newsweek magazine analysis of the latest trends within wealthy families around the world. Living in transit and owning three houses in different countries.Nowadays this is an elititist trend. In the future, however, it will be a trend of the middle classes. Israel will be no different. Some examples can be seen in the Israeli academy.( half and half nominations) In this post modern world, whatwill be the meaning of to "make aliah" . It will be to own a house in Israel,serve three years in the army and afterwards, divide out time in wherever. ( How many French jews do that?? In other words, this will the country of the Jews, in where a lot of Jews live part time, and contribute to its development, not necessarily living all the time in it. Whether we like it or not, this will be the new type of normality.

I fully and completely agree with you. The trouble of the Jewish people is this thing about them that makes us so frustrating for the whole rest of the world. What the hell are we, a religion, a people, a nation, a group of people with the same pastime?! These are tough questions that I think almost every Diaspora Jew has asked himself at least once in his life.Imagine what the rest of society must think.This only serves as fuel for anti-semitism.Israelis have none of these problems.They are confronted with their Jewishness in exactly the same way as a Frenchman with his Catholicism, a Kuwaiti with his Islam and a Thai with his Buddhism.I'm really happy for Woody Allen and all the other Jews that have brought us creativeness and make us the most wellrepresented group among Nobel Prize Laureates.To hell with it!I want us to be a people with 1000 lower level administrative workers and 3 doctors and 2 lawyers for every 100.000 factory workers and farmers, like the Dutch and the Russians!

An unfortunately personal comment ... there are posts here that I agree with or not, that are better written or not, but who is this Isenhower character? There is no rhyme or reason to your posts and you seem frankly unbalanced mentally! What say you listen for a while to the adults and keep your ravings to yourself? Do us a favour, ok?

Zionists will become Israelites when they believe in the God of Israel Shiloh (the despised Mashiyach), YHWH who spoke to Moses from the burning bush. Jews will become Israelites when they cast-off the nasty pre-Babylonian Capitivity moniker "Jew", and say proudly, "I am a son or daughter of Jacob", not of the people who Lost the nation because of unbelief, the "Jews". They then both can rise up united and say: "El elohe Israel, and El eloi Israel", God is the God of Israel and God, my God is the God of Israel. King David, the uniter of all twelve tribes said these words and won. Say them til you believe them and you will win too, not just Israel, but the whole world to the God who gave the Ten Commandments, the basis of all Law and civilization. JI 5-13-06.

I was fortunate enough to be at the AJC meeting where AB Yehoshua made his remarks. I think that he is both a bit childish (sounds funny, but I believe he is so) and also really passionate in his "mission" of not "losing" Diaspora Jews due to assimilation. The Jews in China in 50 years time, will not be Jewish anymore, they will be global businessmen and their enlarged families.. I remember my grandma a black and white photo from the turn of the 20th century Shanghai - of some distant relatives.. they looked Chinese and that's not because they ate too much Rice! :) So, AB Yeshoshua tried to make a positive shock..and he hopefully made one!

If it had not been for pressure during the 1973 War by the Jewish lobby on the US Administration to immediately implement the arms airlift to replenish the IDF which was fighting on two fronts for Israel's life, Israel would possibly have been destroyed, unless it had used the nuclear option as a last resort. Mr Yehoshua and his ilk should remember that, next time they insult the US Jewish community with their arrogant bad manners.

The opinion of mr. Yehoshua is correct without any doubts about "moledet concept" but I think only about this topic. Are all Catholics living definitely in State of Vatican , the real nation and state representing Christian faith ? or are all Muslims inhabiting in Mecca to belong to Islam ? All goym are far from their spiritual Jerusalem ( Rome ) - if they believe - dislocated in all over Europe. Israel is the saint nation and a dream of justice and peace but now is a less dream and more nation ; a simple moledet like all other nations in the world . Who's out of it can however have umbilical cord linked with the heart of his/her own spirituality mother and not abandoning identity. In the dyaspora I try to be what I'm but according with Talmud I respect my nation even if my heart and my mind is found in other site of this little ,mad and conflicting world.

without immigration israel cannotsurvive ;without religion jews indiaspora disapear in one or two generations ;there is no transmission in sionism instead of religion ;diaspora need israel and support it; no doubt we are tied!

without immigration israel cannotsurvive ;without religion jews indiaspora disapear in one or two generations ;there is no transmission in sionism instead of religion ;diaspora need israel and support it; no doubt we are tied!

DONT TRUST THE US JEWS OR US IN GENERAL. THEY ARE USING ISRAEL FOR OWN SELFISH PURPOSES

So...This is the functional role of the state of Israel for the Jewish people. I agree with you in one point. We need statehood. Leivobitch put it very simple.Zionism is "We dont want to be rule by the goim." Others added I want to participate in the only practical self-defense of the Jewish people. That is extremely important especially after the Holocaust. But what is all this about the jewishness of life. You can realize a fully jewish life in West Up Manhattan.As fully or even more than in Tel Aviv. Youshua's israeli jewishness is one type of jewish life and very important without doubt. But you can be a proud and fully Jew in Manhattan as well. Moreover, it seems that the schizofrenia of Jewish life in the diaspora sparks creativity. Not so great as "to compare with Youshua", but still, some important writers, scholars etc etc do not need any inspiration from Israel's Jewish normalicy.

That's funny, Arik, you say Israel is a trancedental utility to American Jews. Like an electronic appliance. That would be intresting coming from a "neurotic" (your words) Jew from US, from an Isreali it is truly cynical. I agree it must be cool being a Jew in America nowdays, but I am sure it was cool to be Jew in Berlin before Hitler and in Spain around the year 1000. Theoretically, I also think the nationalist pathos is outdated and embarassing and people are first individuals before being nations and it should be their unquestioned decision where and how to live. But to afford this luxury you need to go over the nationalist phase in a normal country as a normal people to apply it properly and safely in a postmodern world.

It's a very simple line of thought, "exceptionalism was forced on us". I beg to differ. Jews choosing time after time to live abroad instead of remaining in their country or to return in times when this was absolutely possible did help build this exceptionalism that seems hard to swallow by the world. Need to correct something: yerida is not undertaken by the most Jewish of the Jews. It has to do with political dissent in its most secular form, or to economical interests, also very secular. It is however very disturbing for the people who repeat year after year "beshana haba baYerushalaim" not to make the effort to respect this commitment of Judaism.

sad to say vi cousin. CZR got her job. not qualified in the normal sense. qualified in the CZR sense (able to spy on j). sick puppy girls. says minister but refused to help with grandchildren. Medina has good AC, low rent, free computers, close to downtown, friends, good staff. :):):)AGIF is a great organization. I am an American. I like that. Later in life God has told me of a mission there. Presumes very long life. Land, titles, crowns in the resurrection. Be good! Me too! was not n, someone de organized. not ET after the bank. JI 5-1306.

Israel is faltering in part because it is a Jewish not Israelite nation. The "Jews" (Yehuda), and the few Benjamites and Levites who have been brow beaten into calling themselves Jews constitute 1/6 of Israel, thus they are always sapped, tired, overworked, doubting. Failure to "Gather" the other Tribes is the largest single human error of the "Israelis". I will tell you plainly, if King David were leading this, he would make sure that all of those who could be called Israelites, including those like himself with foreign blood, were "Gathered-in". JI 5-13-06

What separated and saved the "Jews" from other Israelites before and after the Assyrian Captivity was love of the God of Israel. This protection from on High served them well until the leaders started faltering, then they suffered the same fate as the Lost Ten Tribes, having Lost God also. Such a simple facts as these seems to be Lost in an ocean of intellectual drivvle. I pray that it is soon found, and that this generation does not suffer Egypt, Assyria, Babylon and the Holocaust all over again as a result of religious ignorance. JI 5-13-06.

AB Yoshua is simple oudated, part of the intellectual phanteon of nationalist normalcy. What does it me to be normal? Miss Adina what is good about it? What's wrong with being neurotic and even more than that. The Jewishness of the diaspora is richer in all senses than the one here in the "normal" Israel. What diaspora jews should have answer is simple that. You are right A.B Joshua, but we have a an interesting, full and neurotic life here. Ask Woody Allen, B H Levy, Jorge Dresler, and the rest of great Jewish minds producing at least "not less than israelies" The only trascendental addition that Israel can provide to Jewish life is the possibility of making pay with high currency any attempt to split Jewish blood. Israel does not even deter its enemies, and that is the reason the most dangerous place for Jews in the world is Israel. Yet, Israel is the only Jewish political organization that can retaliate. It is not bad,...but.......

First of all Israel will never be a completely normal country or nation, whatever that might be? Western, eastern, or a mix of both. Exceptionalism is heaped upon us even if we don't want it. Zionism tries to fight GOD's will that is why Zionism is failing. Judaism is also failing for a variety of reasons namely having to do with human weakness. If you want Israel to be the center and vanguard of the Jewish people, it first has to be a JEWISH COUNTRY, wether it is, is beginning to be questionable. if it no longer is a Jewish country you will find many people abandoning her. MYSELF included. Why fight for a euro-trash prostitute nation???

I read the articles here and some of Yehoshua's books in translation over the years and I am familiar with his views on Israel and Jewish identity. As an outsider to this debate (I'm an Italian Catholic living in Canada) with a keen knowledge of Jewish history and contemporary life, I feel that Yehoshua articultes something fundamental. Israelis may or may not be religious (or likeable, as some of the posters assert) but they are themselves. When I talk to an American Jew, a French Jew, a British Jew, an Italian Jew ... I get a lot more America, France, England or Italy than Jewish culture! Yehoshua is right: when the centre of power moves elsewhere, diaspora Jews will migrate there. Israelis will keep coming up with Israeli answers to life's problems, whether we like them for it or not! This is what he is saying. If you want to locate Jewish identity somewhere else--in books, in some kind of ethical discourse based on sacred texts--it will become disembodied and finally, empty.

Uniting the Israelites begins by ending self-identification as "Jews", and replacing it with the proper word Israelite. Calling Israelites "Jews" (whether from the tribe of Judah or not)is akin to calling black people n---ers. "Jew" was a dirty word in the Bible, and the fact that Rabbis continue to use it shows the lack of leadership we are under. When unbelief led to lack of Priests, we got "Rabbis" (the word is not in the Bible). When we got Rabbis, we got the "Jew" identity. Missionary Davidic Israelites devoted to the Messiah are what we need. This will regenerate the Priesthood. The Messiah will come, and "David will be our Prince", and Israel will return to its rightful place as the center of the Kingdom of God on the Earth.

The proper posing of this question is: How will the Israelites become united. Anti-semites love Judaism vs Zionism. By itself, Judaism is insufficient for Israelites because it lost with the publication of the Septuagint its Davidic Messianic Mission. Zionism fails because it rejects the God of Israel. Herzl heard God's call, he just didn't know who it was from. The Rabbis knew this was God's call but were too proud to follow a leftist agnostic--so the "Jews" suffered Holocaust and the world suffered WWII, as a result of this blind leading the deaf, so speak. JI 5-12-06.

His book "Israel, un examen moral" (French title) is so eye opening and such an argumented cry for normalcy. I take it the whole debate is a reflection of the thesis of this book and it amazes me no one makes any reference to it. For the ones who are against his words - I just can't understand! Isn't the Jewish people thirsty of normalcy? Wouldn't be everybody happy with an Israel which would contain the overwhelming majority of its people? Wouldn't it be more dignified to have less wealth, but not to rely on anyone, than to depend on US on every breath and every step? Israel will not gain legitimacy and acceptance in this world until it becomes a normal country among the countries. Not a light upon the nations, not a darling of a super power with dubious motivations, but just a normal country. It's the only thing that will make Jewish people a normal people. Isn't the Jewish people tired of exceptionalism? Haven't it hurt enough already? Please read the book!

Those questions would be answered in person to her. Yes, I want to be her husband. She has told friends that she is going to marry me.The sons of God in Berestith tried the impossible, to make themselves immortal during mortality at the expense of young women and girls, and set into motion an evil current in "humanity" that contiues with us today. I have no desire to live in mortality til I am 900 years old.

What could be more normal than to associate Jews with the state of Israel? Are not the Jews of the Diaspora often seen as aliens, outsiders, or perhaps even as Israeli citizens taking a long holiday far from ?home?? Such insinuations have always been dear to anti-Semites, for whom a world Jewish conspiracy is an incontrovertible fact. But the linkage of Jews with the State of Israel is also a theme popular with the Zionists who, ever since the creation of the political movement known as Zionism more than a century ago, have claimed to be the vanguard of the entire Jewish people. Reality, in the event, is far more complex. The book A Threat From Within: A Century of Jewish Opposition to Zionism by Yakov Rabkin invites questions like What is Jewish about Zionism? What is Zionist about Judaism? In expanding our horizons in the manner, Professor Rabkin illuminates issues easily overlooked yet crucial to understand the Israeli identity and Judaism in the Diaspora.

What could be more normal than to associate Jews with the state of Israel? Are not the Jews of the Diaspora often seen as aliens, outsiders, or perhaps even as Israeli citizens taking a long holiday far from ?home?? Such insinuations have always been dear to anti-Semites, for whom a world Jewish conspiracy is an incontrovertible fact. But the linkage of Jews with the State of Israel is also a theme popular with the Zionists who, ever since the creation of the political movement known as Zionism more than a century ago, have claimed to be the vanguard of the entire Jewish people. Reality, in the event, is far more complex. The book A Threat From Within: A Century of Jewish Opposition to Zionism by Yakov Rabkin invites questions like What is Jewish about Zionism? What is Zionist about Judaism? In expanding our horizons in the manner, Professor Rabkin illuminates issues easily overlooked yet crucial to understand the Israeli identity and Judaism in the Diaspora.

What could be more normal than to associate Jews with the state of Israel? Are not the Jews of the Diaspora often seen as aliens, outsiders, or perhaps even as Israeli citizens taking a long holiday far from ?home?? Such insinuations have always been dear to anti-Semites, for whom a world Jewish conspiracy is an incontrovertible fact. But the linkage of Jews with the State of Israel is also a theme popular with the Zionists who, ever since the creation of the political movement known as Zionism more than a century ago, have claimed to be the vanguard of the entire Jewish people. Reality, in the event, is far more complex. The book A Threat From Within: A Century of Jewish Opposition to Zionism by Yakov Rabkin invites questions like What is Jewish about Zionism? What is Zionist about Judaism? In expanding our horizons in the manner, Professor Rabkin illuminates issues easily overlooked yet crucial to understand the Israeli identity and Judaism in the Diaspora.

I never heard so much rubbish. This is like saying a catholic can't be a true catholic unless he lives in Rome and speaks Latin. Israel has relied on support from outside the country, and the most loyal and effective support has come from Jews of the gola.

Its amazing how the writers refuse to confront AB Yehoshua's argument that Israel is at the core of a national identity and as such is where the national action is.

how come you didn`t include zeev bielski`s piece which appeared in hebrew on may 8th. he is the chairman of the jewish agency after all!

I think that Yehoshua has a quite simple point of view... he refuses to accept an identity with more components, that of course is harder... anybody denies the central role of Israel for the jewish people, but if jewish people survived thousend years without israel, why should they end WITH Israel?

Those who are meant to remain jews will remain jews those who are meant to vanish withthe wind will vanish. Israelis and diaspora jews included.