'U.S. Jews concerned over state of pluralism in Israel'

There are lots of American Jews who are right leaning and who think Israel is doing just fine.

Sir - you can not use "6 million" reasons to feel the same way. What to you expact to do? Try to wipe out a country and expect them to walk gently into the night? Of course they will fight. Maybe if that conflict didnt't exist there would be an issure. 2nd - dont flatter yourself - if there is a terrorist attack - its not because 'its Jew hunting time' - its because some idiot feels he is proving a point. For Jews to call themselves the "chosen people" to be so anti human is ridiculous. The whole religion thing is over exagarated these days anyways. But i'm not here to discuss religion - Why should the U.s. support you? They support you enough as it is. You make your bed - you sleep in it. If there is a problem you should be askiing the UN for help. Who do you think the US is? Your private pitbull that you can just terrorize people with if they don't play nice? Get real.

When the State was established the "founders" expected that all the Haredim as well as the other Halachically Observant Jews would disappear and there would be a secular Jewish State that resembled . . . okay, let's say somewhere in Scandanavia. Trouble is that we are in the Mediteranean. In spite of the "kidnappings", of the culture and the Yemenite infants, the way Zahal kept religion "out of bounds", and other tactics it didn't work. Heck, the State was so modern it cut back the school day so that Shas found a way to get back to full days, and enable women to work, creating two income families, fuelling the economy with houses and durable goods. The real money liked that even if Rabbi Ovadia's picture was involved. It's my guess the good rabbi thought more two income families was a good idea, too. You have to wonder why the Secularist haven't got it yet--the Jews who aren't hooked on Secularism know a few things, too.

Dr. Brnrd is correct in that core support for Israel's survival is solid amongst all streams and political opinions, but Dr. Brnrd doesn't go to or like the B'Nai Peace Nows, and I wonder how he's so confident that the Women of the Wall question doesn't exist? It's part of a much larger issue of women's role in Judaism, and you better believe that if my synagogue were not egalitarian, we wouldn't be there. We disdain sheitals, mochitzas, women's balconies, separate seating, and no women on the bima or reading Torah. If you want to confine my daughter in a physical and spiritual burqua, you'll find that I will be all over you, and so will many people in my congregation and in other congregations.

This book to which I refer, Torah Hamelech, was authored by Rabbi Yitzhak Schapira of the colony near to nablus, Yizhar. His interpretation, which is shared by many of the rabbis in the colonies and received a commendation from the son of the former Rishon L'Tzion, Ovadia Yosef, sanctions the killing og Arab (non-Jew) babies if they pose a potential threat to the lives of Jews. He contends that gentiles by their nature lack the quality of compassion which he apparently feels is givne to Jews alone. Hence, all non-Jews, in their heart of hearts, have a natural inclination to kill Jews. This so called rabbi Shapira has been involved in terrorism against Palestinians but was recently released for "lack of evidence".

Jews in the Diaspora who read Israeli newspapers regularly on the Internet scratch their heads in wonder and disbelief. On one end of the extreme Israel looks like a corrupt gangster state where the rule of law depends on who you are and who you know (bribery, Katsav the serial sexual predator, Olmert's problems,and so on) At the other end we see rabbis interfering with issues of your national security and we hear about ultra-orthodox women not being allowed to walk on the same side of the street as men, and of course the incident at the Wall. It all makes me and the people I know cringe. Are the people like Rabbi Melamed any better than the mullahs who were in Fallujah or in Tehran today? The damage the Rabbi is causing rip at the social fabric at home and seriously damage Israel abroad. It is all shameful, it is a sin.

Here's the quote from the King's Bible, written by Rabbi Yitzak Shamir and taught as a valid Halachic commentary in Israel's religious schools. "It is permissible to kill gentile children who will grow up and be trained to harm Jews." "It is permissible during war to kill gentiles who harm Jews." "It is permissible to kill a gentile who has harmed Jews in the past and may harm them in the future, even if at the time they are killed, they are not harming Jews." Here's the link (and yes it is to an Al Jazerra broadcast, but look at it anyway. It condemns radical Islamic incitement as well.) http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/insidestory/2009/11/20091111141817912970.html

Women of the Wall are conducting a monologue. They are talking to themselves because there's no-one here willing to listen to them. Edelstein is saying the same for organizations like J-Street. They are not allowed to call themselves a lobby if they are not pro all Israeli Prime Ministers. They have to be much, much holier than all of us here and be totally uncritical of Israel. So they represent no-one, just like Women of the Wall.

Thats a big part of the problem. Israel is managed by a corrupt cabal of backroom brokers who use government agencies and politicians to their own ends. They are careful to make sure no-one capable of shaking their ground becomes too powerful. Now they are trying to drag all Israelis down with them. Israel has a messy future ahead, next few months.

Israel, wake up. You get billions of dollars per year from the U.S. government. Why? Because American Jews strongly, strongly lobby the U.S. government. But it is a fact that American Jews' attachment to Israel is weakening with each succeeding generation. As the Baby Boomers die off, Generations X and Y will not have same knee-jerk loyalty and will want to know why Israel, a country they were taught to love, rejects their Judaism. They won't put their own hands in the political fire for you any more. If you still want the billions and the political cover, you had better make nice.

The kings Torah.."? what in heck is that. We Jews gave up Kings a long time ago and good riddence. There is hardly a good king in all of history! Even our "David" was a better sheppard boy than a King! Killing babies of any race is abhorant to all Jews and others!

"I have never treated the Goldstone report as anti-Semetic, but it de-legitimized Israel in a very dangerous way, and we can see the result that while the UN praises Israel for its rescue work in Haiti, the internet is filled with stories of IDF soldiers harvesting organs there." At this point maybe the reporter could have bothered with a follow-up question? One that comes to mind is how a member of a government can come to the highly illogical conclusion that the Haiti-stories mentioned are in any way connected with the Goldstone-report... If aliens attack Israel tomorrow will it be because of Goldstone?

The Muslims of Gaza and the West Bank (men and women) would also like to travel to their religious shrine in Jerusalem, and pray at the Al Aqsa mosque. Even now, only Jerusalem Arab men over the age of 50 may pray there. From Israel's Declaration of Independence (which has absolutely no force of law in Israel and is a dead letter): *Israel will ensure COMPLETE EQUALITY of social and POLITICAL RIGHTS to ALL ITS INHABITANTS irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.* [Emphasis added.] http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace+Process/Guide+to+the+Peace+Process/Declaration+of+Establishment+of+State+of+Israel.htm

You are correct that J Street is a lobby, but pro-Israel or pro-peace, not a chance. They constantly lobby against Israel's interests, against the decisions of the democratically elected government of my country - they came out against Israel's right to defend ourselves from attack - and considering every failed policy they continue to push has lead to 3 wars and thousands of deaths since Oslo, Peace must not be on their mind.

Wants the voice of only one lobby in the US and that is the lobby that does Israel's bidding and does not deviate:AIPAC. They do not want to have a counter opnion from another group that is a lobby and will have a voice in Congress. One wonders if Edelstein's call for greater tolerance would include acceptance of his brother in Israel as a Jew since his brother converted to Russian Orthodoxy and is a priest in that denomination.

This is how the Haredim would argue: 1. Jewish tradition, codified in law, has ruled that a woman cannot put on a tallit, and hold public prayer where their voice is heard by men praying. 2. The Wall is under the authority of the Rabbinate and the police there fore are obliged to carry out the law set down by the Cheif Rabbi of the Wall. 3. Women are permitted to pray at the Wall but in their own section, apart from men, and not publically since this is not in accord with Jewish law. 4. If the Haredim were not serving in the military, their prayers were just as effective in regaining the Kotel than was military action.

At the moment the direction seems to be Iran.Segregated buses etc,Army service .Power of the Rabbinate etc.Israel is not a democracy in the western sense[no separation of state and religion]and is moving in a direction that will be increasingly unattractive to most westerners.

There is no place anywhere in the US where you can find 200 women wrapped in tallit worshipping in any synagogue on any given Shabbat, even in a Jews-for-Jesus congragation! I don't know who this guy was talking to, but it wasn't representative of "the US Jewish community", and Women of the Wall (average US Jew never heard of them, I assure you) isn't on our minds and wouldn't even make the "page 8" in a US paper that he says he sees in Israel. Crass, noisy attention-grabbing protests like this have no place at Judiasm's holiest shrine, and you won't find any genuine representative of the US Jewish community (including leftist Rabbi Eric Whatshisname of Reform's HUC) who says it does. What synagogue in the US did he visit where he found this "concern" expressed? Bnai Peace Now? Tifereth J-Street? He is badly mistaken. And the "pluralism" issue is NEVER linked here to Jewish support of Israel's survival, as the headline claimed. NEVER. Even at Bnai Peace Now.

J-Street is buying support of democrats in Congress. Do you need a list of names? I will send it to you. mbernadiner@mail.ru

"As a loud group trying to get attention and to provoke, they don`t enjoy my support because they create tension and not compromise." Concerned Israeli An American slave said, "You don't get a crop unless you have thunder and rain. You must plow the ground." The Women at the Wall are now planting the seeds. "Sometimes we Jews do stupid things" Theo I have to agree. The Jewish people are at the extemes of high intellect and imbecility. Idiot/Savants. My best to you and Concerned Israeli. Salaam/Shalom

Great article, but does Minister Edelstein understand what a lobby is? Lobby: a group of people seeking to influence politicians or public officials on a particular issue. J Street doesn't have to support every prime minister to be a Pro-Israel/Pro-Peace LOBBY!! - Rabbi Howie

to whom does the Wall belong? 1- who decided that a woman can not put on a talit and pray at the Wall? 2- How did the police dare to intervene in the case of the talited woman at the Wall? 3- Who had the authority to prevent a group of wemen from prayins at the Wall? 4- How many Hredis fell in 1967 liberating "THE WALL" and the rest of Jerusalem, all of which pretended to be their proprty now?

Of course they must be provocative. That is the only way they can bring about change. Do you think blacks in the southern US would have desegregated lunch counters or schools by playing nice and taking individual action? Contrary to what you are saying the haredim are moving into more fundamentalism regarding woemn, as their reaction to the jots and tittles of change they see in more open Orthodox circles in Israel. Ovadia Yosef ruled that it is permissible for religious women in the army to wear trousers since the skirts were more immodest, yet his son, has sanctioned the "King's Torah" which condones the killing of gnetile babies.

I would love to see Israel as a proper secular multi-cultural democracy where all citizens are always equal, no matter whether they're Jew or Arab, man or woman, hetero or gay, black or white. And I know there is a strong part of Israeli society that wants that too. However, there is another strong part of Israeli society pulling in a completely different direction, towards an ethnocratic, dogmatic, religious state where people are separated and defined by Bronze Age religious laws and attitudes. It's too early to say which aspect of Israeli society will prevail, but the signs aren't good, and that's pretty much what America's Jews seem to be saying as well. I can't imagine anyone in Bibi's coalition of extremists and opportunists is very interested though in low-level criticism from US Jews. They'll have to shout a lot louder if they want Bibi to listen.

Granted, Jewish religious law is "screwier" than many (although the Shi'a are working hard on theirs, apparently)... but I am convinced that the problem is endemic to all of us afflicted with the Y chromosome.

"I have never treated the Goldstone report as anti-Semetic, but it de-legitimized Israel in a very dangerous way, and we can see the result that while the UN praises Israel for its rescue work in Haiti, the internet is filled with stories of IDF soldiers harvesting organs there." Anything in the Goldstone report on organs? If not, stop trying to connect his name to these nutcase stories.

Women should be at the wall..what is wrong with that! A women wants to pray or say Kaddish..Of Course. We men (and i am a man) drive people nuts with our screwy laws.. Where would we Jews be without women..It is they who pass on the heritage! Sometimes we Jews do stupid things and keeping women from parying as we do is rediculous!

Actions and policies either give substance to or remove it from an image. Minister Edelstein and his colleagues need to stop acting as though all would be well if only PR were a bit better. On the other hand, much as I admire J Street, I have to agree with what he says about them. They do have an image problem; rebranding would be useful ("an independent voice for Jews in the US"?) You have to wonder how a man who sounds so reasonable and intelligent got to a ministerial post in THIS Government.

Of course we can critize Israel, but as long as there are those Jew haters all around them that want to destroy the Jewish state..I dont care if they go "over the line" in humanity..Are we in the USA so pure? Everyday some mammzer terrorist is trying to kill a Jew! Until that stops, I done give a damn about how Israel acts! They have to defend themselves from crocodiles every second! NEVER AGAIN..and I have 6 million reasons to feel that way!

A dozen years ago, when my father passed away, I said Kaddish and most of the people who heard it thought it was very strange for a daughter to do it (although I have no brothers). Less than four years ago my mother passed away and less people thought it was weird I said Kaddish for her. In 2010 Rabbi Ovadia Yosef said it was ok for daughters to say kaddish if there are no brothers. I believe the Israeli population is more and more open and what used to be considered extreme Reform twenty years ago, slowly becomes mainstram today. I am glad to see that since I have been Reform my entire adult life. Still, I think it is a problem that the "Women of the wall" create provocations. I don't have anything against them praying the way they want, but they should not do it on purpose in order to offend people. Each one of them, praying alone, has my support. As a loud group trying to get attention and to provoke, they don't enjoy my support because they create tension and not compromise.