Dear Helen Thomas, we Jews aren't getting the hell out of anywhere anymore
Anti-Semitism is just the way it is, like a natural law; none of our efforts will absolve us of our real sin: existing and overcoming.
By Sara K. Eisen Tags: Israel news Jewish worldHere’s the thing. I’ve been thinking about poor Helen Thomas, who I believe was probably just saying what everyone thinks and has therefore been made a scapegoat. Not that I really care, because we ought to share the scapegoat status once in a while. It’s the least we can do to dispel the stereotype that we are stingy, us irritating Jews.
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Helen Thomas. |
| Photo by: Reuters |
Irritating enough, apparently - like the too-talented and too-bossy fame-hog Rachel Berry on Glee - in our discovery of the written word, monotheism, modern physics, psychology, vaccinations, and the film industry, that every country that has ever “hosted” us has found it necessary to tell us to get the hell out, like Thomas did. (Ironically, the aforementioned Jewish Glee character Rachel, in a particularly annoying moment in one episode, was told by classmates to move to Israel. I doubt the writers coordinated this telling joke with the State Department - sorry J Street, Jews do equal Israel in the eyes of the world.)
Helen, you know why we were in Germany and much of Eastern Europe in the first place? And by the way, if I follow your advice, do you think the nice old ladies who got my grandmothers’ large houses and farms from the Nazis in what was once Czechoslovakia will kick the property back two generations? That would be cool because I’d love a vineyard and an agricultural estate.
Well, we were in Germany and Hungary and Czechoslovakia and Russia (where we were regularly just plain killed by Cossacks), and also, for many centuries, Poland (ditto), because we were told to get the hell out of England, France, and Spain. Or, you know, just plain killed by handsome and heroic fairytale knights.
And you know why we were in Western Europe to begin with? Because we were told by the Greeks and the Romans - wait for it - to get the hell out of “Palestine,” where we had been living since the beginning of recorded history.
We also ended up in Babylonia (Iraq) and other Middle Eastern and North African countries, where we stayed as second class citizens for hundreds and hundreds of years, till the Arab world finally caught up with the pagans and the Christians in their hatred of the Jews. But I digress.
By the way, I am aware that the Arab narrative has us Ashkenazi Jews as descendants of the Khazars, but the actual facts have it different. See this new DNA study linking European Jews with their Middle Eastern counterparts, all stemming from one original population of Holy Land Jews predating Roman times. Never mind our own texts that say the same thing; I know they are inadmissible in the international high courts of justice of the mind.
In any event, there is no way around it: Jews being asked, usually not by old ladies on the White House lawn, to get the hell out of everywhere is just the way it goes.
So it came to pass that about 200 BCE the Maccabees got sick of it and established a Jewish state in Palestine, within the Roman Empire, which lasted till about the time of Jesus (another pesky Jew) and the destruction of the Second Temple.
And it also came to pass that Jews began arriving in Ottoman Palestine in the late 1800s, after the Russians and the Poles made it clear that they were persona non grata in Eastern Europe. Palestine was as good a place as any to flee to, since it was the last place, about 2,000 years before, in which the Jews had a sovereign state (see above). Never mind Jewish liturgy and texts pining for Jerusalem, since I know these, too, are inadmissible in those international mental courts.
Anyway, nowhere else wanted European Jews any more than Russia did, not even America really, where there were very strict quotas, although the Americans, again politely, refrained from all the messy European killing, which was apparently in vogue until after Adolf. Besides, those Ottoman Turks, then as now, were known around the world for their amazing human rights activism and the Jews were excited to see it first hand. No, not really. But…they were better than the Polish peasants. Unless you were Armenian.
It is true that there were people in Palestine before the Jews arrived en masse (for there was always a handful of Jews here), not "A People" per se, but rather a group of assorted regional Arabs (think Native American tribes in North America) who had settled the area with not much agricultural success and had endured various rulers over the millennia.
But when the Jews came back, it was suddenly necessary, once again, to tell them to get the hell out. There was no living side by side, even though that was an express Jewish desire right up until 1947/8, when the Partition Plan was summarily rejected by the Arab League, who started the war that Israel won. If keeping land you win in a war others provoke (when you wanted to make peace) is called occupation, dear Helen, the world’s axis of furious justice has a lot bigger fish to fry than Israel.
The Arab desire to kick the Jews the hell out of Palestine did not begin in 1967, and not in 1948. It began the moment the first groups of Jews arrived and started to make the land flower and produce crops. That’s when the attacks on Jews began, and when the Arab world decided a new Jewish presence in the land would not do, back when there were about half a million Arabs and just under 100,000 Jews in the Holy Land, in the early 1900’s. Twenty percent was too much, apparently, to bear. (The Hebron Massacre of 1929, in which dozens of Jews were killed and wounded, took place long before a single house was built over the Green Line)
I can only imagine how awful it was - probably for both the Arabs and the British - when it became clear we were here to stay and grow to much further percentages. We are that annoying, what with trying to get rid of malaria and swamps and tuberculosis and all that.
At any rate, it seems that every time a Jewish minority starts to make a society too successful, the indigenous people start to feel very uncomfortable, and tells them one way or another to get the hell out.
But now, alas, there is nowhere left for us to go, except the eternal place Ahmadinejad wants us to go, and Haniyeh and Nasrallah, and Hitler before them, and Chemilniki before him, and Haman before him, and so on.
I know that Israel has made mistakes during its 62 years, some clumsy and inept, and some borderline immoral. But none worse than every other democracy on earth has also done, and most much better than the large majority of the UN rogue nations which condemn Israel daily have done, daily.
There is much to improve in the way we govern, I will be the first to say it. I will also be the first to say that Jews of the Bernie Madoff ilk make me want to crawl under a rock. I know that the world is only waiting for these guys to pop up in order to pin their crimes on all of us, even though everything they do is in direct contradiction of actual Jewish values.
But let’s be honest, the international community’s human rights crusades on behalf of the Palestinians are just the latest Crusades, and the ones who really suffer are not the Jews or the Israelis, but the poor occupants of the Third World who are ignored while the enlightened First World castigates the Jews.
So here’s the thing: We are not going anywhere this time, Helen. We totally get it: Ya’ll pretty much hate us. It’s just the way it is, like a natural law. Nothing we can do - not giving away pieces of the land, not donating billions to charity, nor discovering a cure for polio or the Theory of Relativity, or writing revered legal and religious texts, or founding Google and Facebook, or manufacturing the microprocessor in the majority of laptops that spew Jew hatred onto the Internet, or founding Christianity itself, or championing women’s rights and gay rights in the U.S. and helping to bring about a human rights revolution in America in the '60s. None of those things will absolve us of our real sin: Existing and overcoming.
But this time, seriously. Getting the hell out is not in the cards. We’re just sick of moving all the time. I know. Irritating.
I’m really sorry they told you to get the hell out of the White House, Helen. It really wasn’t your fault that you thought you could say what you said. It’s not like it’s a secret: That’s what people think.
(Read Sara K. Eisen's full post here)
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And you wonder why you are not liked. Or is this the response you wanted to provoke so you could perversely prove your case? Not all your problems are other people's fault.
the entire piece is a quick gloss over the facts, but one statement stands out as the key to what is wrong with this - that Israel has not done any more wrong than other democracies. Thats false in a big way. No other country overlords a private minority group in beseiged ghettos, and kill at will as Israel does. Some 5,000 Palestinians have died since 2000 - people just wishing for the same things you got - your own land - but in this case they actually have the deeds. Please sue those euros who took your family land. Jews have been very successful in suing for lost riches.
Why doesn't she tell Arabs to go back to Arabia?
There is no single greater power in Washington DC than the Jews/Zionists. Sorry, Sara, that doesn't rate as antisemtism; in Washington, it hardly rates as news. And do you know what the number one priority of those Jews is right now? What they spend every breathing moment trying to do? Trying to get the United States, their country and home, ostenmsibly, to attack Iran for the sake of Israel, for the sake of a state which for the last 62 years has only proved that the only thing they like beter than mistyreating Palestinians and flouting international law is ridiculnig Americans. And yet they are eagerly trying to get the United States to basically undergo and action which would, in essence, be the deathblow to the United States. Now you see why all those other countries wanted the Jews to leave?
brilliant, witty and spot on! what a refreshing change from the usual negative posts that Haaretz publishes. all the anti's are here. Let me sum my own feelings, I am Jewish and I am proud. and in the USA we are considered it's most successful minority.
Go at it Israel, take all the Arab’s land, but please leave America out of it. We can't afford the blood and treasure it costs to prop up your theocratic/apartheid state.
It's a real shame that some stupid things like these are still remain in this "plural" world. Hope the whole of civil international community takes into account of this particular incident, in regards to respect the human right of free press and opinion. It’s ridiculous that someone like Helen Thomas (with her prestigious and colossal pedigree as journalist) at the age of 89, has being made to pay the price for expressing her opinions with her “resignation“.
Thats what the French Colonists in Algeria thought....anyways, the arc of justice will pervail and Zionism will end, Israel will be replaced with a Secular One Democratic State, and those who do not agree should leave. Good Times.
I hope it makes the NY times....
And you wonder why you are not liked.
Dear Sara Eisen... It isn't just intellectually dishonest but patently absurd to pretend that Israel somehow deserves credit for Einstien's great discoveries (simply because he was Jewish) or for those of his Jewish scientific contemporaries. Most of these discoveries, particularly those marvelous, breathtaking advances in physics, originated while these great men resided and studied in pre-Hitler Germany. Many of them were later developed and refined in the United States. The state of Israel had nothing to do with it.
"But let’s be honest: the international community’s human rights crusades on behalf of the Palestinians are just the latest Crusades, and the ones who REALLY suffer are not the Jews or the Israelis but the poor occupants of the Third World who are ignored while the enlightened First World castigates the Jews… and yes, of course, the Palestinians, who are kept in misery *by their own leadership* in order to provide the polite Jew haters with a media club to beat them with." So even when it comes to treatment of the Palestinians, the checkpoints, the humiliations, the raids, the 1000s wasting away in prisions, etc. ad infinitum, Israel not perpetrator, heck no "Ya’ll", she's a poor victim! Personally I find the "Might is Right, go F' Off" crowd to be a great deal more honest.
since he heard similar remarks for tens of years at sunday chapel. wright?
or Assyrian. and they are still killing the Assyrians in Iraq.
or Greek
Us Jews will eventually get out of the earth and go to another planet to establish a new civilisation.When the rest of the human race cannot pore their venom on the Jews anymore ,they will attack each other and annihilate the human race with nuclear weapons.The Jews will be too far to be affected and will watch from a distance.
Nor should you by force take over what's not yours......enough of killing ,destroying homes,and pulling out olive trees so you Jews can build on others land ,your mighty power will never last for ever....so try live peacefully with your neighbors.
That it is normal political discourse in Israel to call for the expulsion of the Palestinians back from whence it is claimed they came, yet when one calls for the same treatment of Israeli jews, the person is shunned. Why is that?
as to whether anyone has asked Helen Thomas if her remarks referred to Israel or to Palestine. If Israel, she was dead wrong to say something so nasty. If, however, she was referring to Palestine as in the West Bank and Gaza, she was well within her rights. There are many who object to European and Russian Jews moving into settlements in what is legally disputed territory. I also find it interesting that the response is a recitation of the persecution Jews have suffered throughout history, with the culminating thesis that everyone hates the Jews. There is no denying history, but the world has moved ahead in many ways. There is no reason to assume that anti-Israel sentiment is more than that. Such paranoia and victimhood is unwarranted and unattractive.
long time, even as a Lebanese American, those folks feel that way today, the US state dept was a huge problem for Jews. thanks to Pres Truman and his Jewish partner in the failed clothing business Israel is born, and the Wasps are being replaced
You have no right to say a word about Israel. Helen Thomas as an ass whose own words condemned her for anti semitism. Words have impact, and Helen Thomas knows there is no palestine. Now, thankfully, there's no more Helen Thomas to worry about.
The truth always hurts? right?
If you don't know the disinhibition and inappropriate speaking of dementia, rent the move from a few years ago "Iris" and get acquainted. It is not Helen Thomas with her years of star ability and experience who said these things, it is a demented Helen Thomas, in early stages. We need to regret our loss of her and stop punishing her.
If you don't know the disinhibition and inappropriate speaking of dementia, rent the move from a few years ago "Iris" and get acquainted. It is not Helen Thomas with her years of star ability and experience who said these things, it is a demented Helen Thomas, in early stages. We need to regret our loss of her and stop punishing her.
...but stop stealing land for those who can today live perfectly well anywhere in Europe, in USA, in Russia ...
I can't leave next to peple like you, the only olace for me is Aretz Israel. And if you read the article, nobody is steeling anybody's land. we didn't started this wars.
Thank you, Haaretz, for publishing this magnificently honest piece. The arguments for Israel are as powerful as our nation is small. Thank you.
Maybe Helen Thomas meant that we Israelis/Jews should get out of Palestinian's lands that we now occupy. If so, she is absolutly right in making this comment, because Israel is now occupying Palestinian lands and have no right to occupy them. The lands that Israel is occupying, belong to the Palestinian people and must be returned to them if we ever want to achieve peace. So, it is right to say that we Israeli/Jews will have to get the hell out of these lands. The same way that Jews and Palestinians demanded that the British should get the hell out of Palestine when Britain was occupying Palestine.
That is obviously NOT what she meant. If she answered the question of where they should go with: "Back inside the green line", that would be an understandable statement (though one I personally disagree with). She didn't say that. She basically said that the nation of Israel should pick up and leave - go back to all the nations that murdered us. Plus it showed a complete lack of knowledge - that the majority of Israeli's are Sabra's or of Mizrahi descent. If was a good old fashioned anti-Semitic statement.
WE Israelis seem to also have the lack of knowledge when it comes to the Palestinian people. We seem to forget that Palestine existed way before Israel ever came to be. We seem to forget that a UN decision was to divide PALESTINE into two states, one for the Jews and the other for the Palestinains, yet we occupy all of the lands that was designated for the two states. We seem to forget that the Palestinians deserve the same rights that we have. The right to be free, the right to create a state of their own and the right to self determination. We seem to forget that the Palestinians lived on these lands just as long if not longer than our people have, yet we seem to insist that we have more rightsd to these lands than they do. By occupying these lands and denyind the Palestinians their rights, we Israelis can also be regarded as anti-Semitic, because the Arabs/Palestinians are also semites.
Moshe, maybe you need to read Helen Thomas' comments more carefully. She didn't say go to ISRAEL. She said go to Gemany and Poland ... you know ... the countries that were burning Jews 65 years ago. Moshe, with all of the Jewish land taken over by the Palestinians and other countries throughout the world, the least of your problems are a few settlers living on land historically Jewish. I think you need to wake up to the fact that there are many haters that want your country anihilated altogether (and you with it).
Unfortunately she made no mention of the right wing fanatical Americans who emigrate to Israel in their droves. Sorry, but she's just another sorry excuse for a human being. Pure Anti semite.
Wonderful job Sara Eisen; both intellegent, accurate and funny at the same time. Ms. Eisen stated the obvious; the thought so many non-Jews harbor inside, Helen Thomas said loudly. She is a relic from a different era and and being as arrogant as she is did not realize realize it was no longer politically correct to be an anti-Semite.
Come on, people! She's 89 years old. Let's cut her a little slack. Helen Thomas is an Arab-American. While her words may have been ill-advised, it is perhaps understandable for an Arab-American to be angry these days, no? While her words may have hurt some people's feelings, she has done no real harm. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are still being colonized after 43 years, despite repeated Arab offers for a comprehensive peace, we have an environmental disaster of epic proportions in the Gulf of Mexico, Obama and Clinton are preparing to set the world on fire by invading Iran in order to improve Hillary Clinton's chances of becoming President in 2014, and the greatest threat to civilization the world has ever faced is ... Helen Thomas? The hysteria over Helen Thomas is disgusting and shameful. She has apologized for her insensitive words. What has been done to her is far, far worse than what she did. Now it is she who is owed an apology. Mark Marshall Toronto, Canada
she said it at 89, but felt that way since she was 9
What is especially sad is that I have always had a lot of admiration for Helen Thomas and the fact that she spoke truth to power for many years. This makes this whole episode especially sad. I am also very angry with people that I consider on the left as friends--they manage to drag out all the false assumptions about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. This is very disheartening. There is an especially upsetting op-ed in today's NYTimes. Good for you, Sara. I think that the world conveniently forgets the history of the Jews in this world--especially the fact that many Jews came to Israel, not from Europe but from the Middle East itself. They fled because of persecution, especially after the State of Israel was founded. Until the Arab world recognizes the right of Israel to exist there can be no peaceful negotiation to end the conflict.
Israel should get the hell outta Palestine for once.
and to hell with the Helen Thomas s of the world
"if I follow your advice, do you think the nice old ladies who got my grandmothers’ large houses and farms from the Nazis in what was once Czechoslovakia will kick the property back two generations?" Well, you're so strong that you managed to kick hundred of thousands of Palestinian properties back tens of generations. It's even a specialty of yours.
BTW Germany has liberal ROR legislation which many Jewish folk have taken advantage of, rather than live in Israel.
Its all semanticxs CJ. She might not have said Jews but that is what she meant. You are really grasping at straws in your crusade of hate. Not quoting some old UN resolution today CJ or some old map that shows that the whole state of Israel still belongs to the arabs. Things must be slow down under in Oz.
She was asked about ISRAEL. Israel is not 'Jews'. Anyone can speculate on what was not said. It means absolutely NOTHING. You have not said you hate Arabs. I could speculate that you hate Arabs. As for your stupid speculation on my alleged hate, please show some evidence of hatred to my fellow Jews.....thx
Oh. OK. By what you've not said, you hate Arabs and believe they'd all be better dead, you're not fond of brunettes, prefer black shoes, like eating prunes. Right? ANY idiot can speculate on what is not said, it's endless twaddle 101. \ The FACT is, she did not say Jews. Her comment was specific to being asked about "Israel" The word "Jews" was an interjection by the Rabbi. The Rabbi's MO was abolished July 15, 1834
Funny and in some cases on point, but you cannot escape the 'persecution complex which continues to blind Jews to their own failings. "Everyone hates us!" "Everyone is picking on us because we are special!" What you article fails to address is under what pretext, European and American Jews confiscate Arab lands and occupy others? Is it because you are special? Is it because others (European Christians) have persecuted you? Please explain? If Jews had a right to colonize Palestine in the early 20th Century - when they were only 3% of the indigenous population - because Jews had lived there 2000 years before, how do you deny Palestinians the right to return to a land where they were the other 97%? Let's not let logic intrude into our self-indulgent back patting here. The fact is that if Jews had merely wanted to live among the Arabs there would have been no problem. They did so as minorities for centuries. The Moors gave shelter to the Jews when both were booted across the Straights of Gibraltar by the Spanish Inquisition. Jew thrived in Syria and Iraq before the advent of Zionism. Helen Thomas was wrong to say that Jews have no place in Palestine. They do and always have. However, so do the Palestinians. Maybe that is where the name came from.
JP!!! You're totally missing her point. Completely and utterly. You say that she "cannot escape the persecution complex which continues to blind Jews to their own failings." But if you read her post she's not trying to escape anything. She specifically admits, and makes allowance for, the fact that Israel is not perfect and has done immoral things. But she is pointing out, and rightly so, that a double standard exists, by which Jews are expected to be perfect, while others are not. Jews routinely see that their various historical and moral claims are fully negated every time they are less than perfect. Others don't suffer the same judgment. She makes her case well, but instead of considering her case, you and others simply respond with the usual "Stop complaining that everyone hates you!" Her post does not try to address the legalities, or illegalities, of settlements, land seizure, etc. There is a time and place for that, and Israel's detractors do not need her help pushing for it. At the same time, there should be a time and a place to evaluate other nations in the Mid East, and determine how worthy, or perfect, they are. There should be a time and a place to evaluate Hamas and Hezbollah. It is only fair and right to have a single standard. And every time a pro-Israeli person tries to point this out, all they get back is "you can't hide from the truth!" So, indeed, let's have the truth. But let's have the whole truth. Not just the portion of it that serves some pre-ordained, politically motivated (if not hate-motivated) agenda. It's you who is trying to escape something JP. Not this blogger. And if you need a further illustration, try comparing Haaretz to Al Jazeera sometime. Tell me what you think about the relative level of debate on the two posts. I don't think your post is meant to be prejudice or unfair because you acknowledge in your opening that she is, in some cases, on point. But in the end, you are looking through her merits and allowing the same old double standard to prevail, and it's just not fair. And, by the way, when you say things like "jews are blinded to their own failings," it is prejudice. You're grouping together a whole ethnicity. It's like saying all Arabs are terrorists. I don't think you meant it that way, but it should kinda make you think.
Sara, If a 90 year old lady is Israel's problem it has no problems. Just what Israel needs after the flotilla slaughter --- a sideshow, a mouthy journalist, so that friends of Israel can cloak themselves once again in the guise of victim, of the persecuted one. Victim of what, now, in 2010? A racist old Lebanese lady? Does Helen Thomas really scare you? Your version of history makes it sound as if the Arabs refused to share the land with the Jews. The way things have turned out, it is the Jews that do not want to share the land with anybody except Jews. Israelis don't want to go back to Europe. Fair enough. The Europeans certainly did little to make Jews feel welcome. But why did you have to conquer the Holy Land, and then drive out so many of the Muslims and the Christians, and destroy their cities and villages? Why was it necessary for you to pretend that only Jews had ever been there? In 1935 your biggest threat was Hitler, but the Brits and the Americans were not much help either. Today ... Helen Thomas. If we can snap our fingers and punish every nasty old critic of Jews, are you willing to do the same thing and silence all the Jewish journalists, and Jewish politicians who continuously say nasty things about Palestinians and Arabs and Muslims?
Correct and clever comment. Bravo.
Dear Sara, being a Pole I admire the Jewish as a diaspora that is so united in pursuing and defending their interests. That is an example to be followed. I myself am fond of Jews if only for the "pesky Jew" whom I consider to be divine. Of course the Israeli cannot expect to be popular with other nations for storming flotillas even though there was an ultimatum given by Israeli Government beforehand (not to enter Israeli waters). I understand the security considerations and perhaps it was an inevitable lesser evil for Israel to use force aboard rather than face more complex situation in Gaza being flooded with multiple flotillas. Let me however corect you on the role of Poland in the late 1800s. Do not put the Russians and the Poles side by side in making your argument simply because you are not fond of Eastern Europeans. At that moment of history Poland was wiped out of the map of Europe as it was partitioned between the Russian Empire, Prussia and Austria-Hungary. Do not attribute too much hatred to any nationality simply to justify and support your point. Poles might not have liked the Jewish minority (which is the fate of any minorities anywhere anytime) but even if Poles wanted the Jews out of Poland, they could not have had any say on it as they struggled themselves to preserve their identity. It is well-worthy noticing finally that the sympathy for the Jews nowadays stemms mainly from conviction of a common cultural-religious heritage as well as concerns about intensifying progressive islamism. One can see, there is still much to do on either side of the M.East conflict if the two states (Israel and Palestine) are to exist separately. So take your time. Israel, I wish you well. Shalom
and return to europe. But why should a semitic tribe, speaking a semitic language and practicising a semitic religion leave the m.east to go to europe ? how stupid would that be ?
I am no ones historical victim! In the land of Caanon, Judah, Israel, Judea, we were just a people who fought over land, money, resources, power etc as did and do all people. When we lost a war we suffered the same fate as any defeated nation of the time. Even after 70 BCE, the Romans did what they did to any defeated nation, they exiled us and changed the name of the country, in our case from Judea to Palestine. It wasn't anti-Jewish it was just SOP. The difference came about with the rise of Christianity. Antisemitism came about in the late 19th C when converting wasn't enough and there was the "taint" of blood. As to Helen Thomas, she did indeed say what most people are thinking. Bigotry, historical ignorance, and damn good PR from our Arab cousins, have all combined to issure that all of the above are endemic in the modern world. final word, WE ARE GOING NOWHERE! We are home and will stay home. LET THE ARABS MOVE TO JORDAN WHERE THEY BELONG.
Sara, why is it that you and so many other Israelis feel compelled to label those who tell the truth about Israel anti-semites? Can't you muster up a cogent, resonable argument? I despise the nation of Israel but not Jews. There is a difference.
'I despise the nation of Israel' - what the whole bunch? in total? big ones and small ones? fat one and thin ones? the whole nation? - Sir, makes you a racist.
Today you say it is Israel you despise and not the Jews; how convenient and politically correct. Ms. Eisner presented to you a 2000 years of hatred of Jews without Israel, full of persecution and jenocide, but you want to pretend you only "despise Israel
You DESPISE the nation of Israel - but not Jews. Er, what exactly do you think Israelis are? The real truth is that you despite a nation that just won't take its punishment lying down. It's incredible how you feel so self-justified to hate an entire nation but still not consider THAT to be irrational.
I clearly said the NATION of Israel, not the PEOPLE of Israel. There is a difference but you and other defenders of Israel's indefensible policies conflate the two while charging critics with anti-Semitism, racism or worse. Israel's harsh and unjust policies against Palestinians cannot be justified by recalling past atrocities - by others - against Jews.
Long over due. Finally, she can end her career in disgrace. Her hatred made her uglier than homemade sin. Helen, 'get the hell out' And, she did, gotta love it! Face it, Helen sucked.
Well, minds can get frail with time and Helen Thomas's mind is just that. The woman is just an insignificant, babbling columnist. For anyone to come out with this kind of remark is just incomprehensible and can only ascribed to a malfunction of the common sense.
as an armenian with great jewish friends....stay strong like always dont take crap from no one see you guys in jerusalem!!!!!!
founding Christianity itself, or championing women’s rights and gay rights in the U.S. and helping to bring about a human rights revolution in America in the '60s Founding christianity? I just feel sorry for your lies ,just reading this I can tell how Pittiful U are?founding religion? U are soooooooooooooo pittiful to found a religion?thats the Joke of the day and lies after lies of you pittiful
You are a complete idiot!!!!
this wicked witch of the west has criticized every administration since Eisenhower for their views about Israel and the rites of the Palestinians in the end her true feelings came out she is simply a Jew hating Arab bigot. as a Jew all i can say is" there s no place like home"
"we Jews aren't getting the hell out of anywhere anymore", u said, but i am afraid that u r choosing to do it, even faster than many things, the world is fed up, it hurt....
Colonialism has done and over cooked, no biblical or otherwise spin can justify the throwing out the indigenous people of Palestine, whether Mrs. Thomas said the truth due to her hatred to the Jews (indeed, the Zionists) or not, that is not my issue, after all I am an Arab and we have nothing to do with the Holocaust nor with the pogroms. History, geography, demography, archeology, civility and future had taught the world, indeed us, but not the Zionists though, that we will reclaim our lands, all of it, from river Jordan to the sea, you simply can not and will not be permitted to squatter in the midst of the Arab lands of 300 million Arabs, and another layer of 200 million Muslims. you are not welcome, nor liked, neither will ever be accepted as a colonial bridgehead in the Arab east. Hence (please spare me with the Anti-Semitic rhetoric) you have one of the two choices: 1-dismantle Zion-stan and allow for one state for all, then, you are right, will not go anywhere. or 2-stay like this and, eventually, accedpt the defeat where there is no room for you, indeed, making Mrs Thomas wish come true. Sword that made you, can dis-make you.
silly billy.
Hi Ahmad, Where do we come from ? where should we go back to? Over 50% of Israels are of middle eastern origin can they they stay ? What about the Armenians ? or the Circassians (Cherkessim) can they stay ?
"...you simply can not and will not be permitted to squatter in the midst of the Arab lands of 300 million Arabs, and another layer of 200 million Muslims. you are not welcome, nor liked, neither will ever be accepted as a colonial bridgehead in the Arab east." Helen couldn't have said it better herself. You expose yourself as someone who simply doesn't want Jews around because we are Jews.
So if happened to be a Jew born in Israel would you give up your Nuclear weapons faced with millions of nutters like yourself, ready to put our heads on sticks. damn right you wouldn't. Tough isn't it? We go...you go.
Or do you propose ethnic cleansing of non Jews from israel and the occupied territories? You see, Sara, most of the world, including Helen Thomas, have no problem with the state of Israel within the Green Line....Well, not quite, let me say, the main problem we have with Israel is their refusal to accept a FIXED PERMANENT BORDER. It does not go unnoticed that Israel avoids the topic of borders ... I understand your need to feel hated. We know it goes along with the entire Jewish identity pathology. But this does not absolve Israel from making peace with her neighbors.
So, Ibhaim, now you talk about thwo States? Have your heard about Peel Commission? Have you heard about Partition vote? Have you heard about Cartoon Conference? Well, for 60 years you have been saying NO TO ISRAEL. If there is a change in the mentality, you have to say to your brothers in Gaza and Hizbullah that you will get nothing through Qasans and Katiyushas, but trough negotiations. The economic growth of West Bank is the answer that will reasure the Israeli Jews that there is a change not armed resistence.
Israel ought to make peace. With partners it has - Egypt and Jordan. But now, with whom should Israel make peace?. Fatah - not representative of the whole. Hamas - not wanting Israel to exist at all. The picture needs to be presented from all sides.
Very good article, indeed. Zionism was a brilliant answer to an organized people that suffered discrimination for two thousand years. If today, we accept that black people and women and gays were subjected to humilliantion and discrimination (and even created quotas to answer to that fatct) , why not accept that also Jews were victims? Think about the poor Jewish population and not about six or seven Rotchilds. This is the root of the creation of a State for them. Were not for discrimination and persecution, Jews would be living completely integrated in their societies like Iran, Brazil, the US, UK, India, etc. But, instead, what did Arab countries? Expelled their Jewish citizens to Israel. What did Nazi German to the ^creme de la creme^ of their Jewry? Sent them to death. Any normal group of people, organized, with resources, with means would do the same as the Jews. Those who came to Israel were those who needed to find a place to be free and fullfill its identity. When will people understand that Zionism is not different from other human displacements along History that took place only for necessity and not for a capricious adventure. Jews, in 60 years you´ve created a wonderful country for you Just allow Palestinians to also have their State and you always will be honored as one of the most brilliant peoples ever.
I do believe that Theodore Herzl's vision of Zionism was both just and necessary for many of the reasons stated in this article. However, Herzl never intended there to be a 'Jewish State' where the indiginous people were forcefully expelled and the few who remained were subject to double standards of justice, and in many cases, discrimination, harassment, and murder - similar to the treatment of the Jews throughout history. No, instead Herzl's zionism urged the creation of a homeland for the Jewish people where they would be free from persecution, and not the establishment of a religious nationalist state, where some guy from New York with no ties to the land can arrive and settle in the West Bank legally just because he's Jewish, while the Palestinian refugee cannot even enter Israel to visit the place of his/her birth, where their families lived for hundreds if not thousands of years! "Religious Nationalism is to Nationalism as National Socialism is to Socialism." Herzl would be ashamed of how his vision has been hijacked by right-wing extremist terrorists, beginning with the Irgun and Lehi and progressing to the 'settlers' of today. "History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, then as a comedy"
Thank you Sara. I have been echoing your comments for years. It is true that we have no friends and the misdirected Jews who jump on the anti-Israel bandwagon better realize that fact.
The problem with you, jews, is that for almost 2000 years being "hosted" around the globe is that you never, never acted like a real "native national". You always acted and still act as "foreigners" being there far from homeland and willing all the time "return" to the land. Which land? The land of Palestine where there is a people living there with other jews that stayed there before 1948. The indians in North America have lost their lands for white conquerors from Europe, most of the jews. They lost their beloved lands for centuries. DO YOU BELIEVE THER CA STILL COME BACK TO THE ISLAND OF MANHATTAN AND EXPELL all people there, inclusive the 2 million jews that live in the city??? Because you did and still do the same for millions of Palestinians that lived and still live in Palestine, you came and expelled them from teir lands, exactly as europeans (many jews) did in North America for the natives livinf there.
Do you think the nice jews who live in my grandmothers’ large houses and farms in what was once Palestine will kick the property back two generations to Palestinians? That would be cool because Palestinians kiked out from Acre, Jafa and Haaifa would love that my dear Sarah.
Do you think the nice jews who live in my grandmothers’ large houses and farms in what was once Palestine will kick the property back two generations to Palestinians? That would be cool because Palestinians kiked out from Acre, Jafa and Haaifa would love that my dear Sarah.
Jews never fought against the Germans or Poles etc, and yet their property was taken away from them (including my mother's parents') .As we know ,their lives were "taken away", too.. Arabs fought against us. Unfortunately, it was them or us. To this day, they haven't come to terms (like Helen) with the existence of a Jewish state here.
Of course it will be totally lost on Helen and her friends, but some of us appreciate your ability to state the truth clearly and with humour. Thank you for one of the best articles I've read here in a long time :)
Thank you ms.Isen. Great article.
I certainly think Helen's remarks were crude and bigoted. What I am thinking is, aren't the non-jewish population of the holy land human beings? Why Israel treats them "borderline immoral"? I do not think the treatment of the jews by anti-semites is an excuse for Israel to treat others the same way.
Do catholics have a country of their own? The answer is no, nowadays they share they countries. UN constantly says to muslim countries not to discriminate nor to act in a xenophobic way with other religions. May Israel say that it is not a xenophobic country? In which way is Israel better than Helen Thomas
...since we actually HAVE a country of our own. It's called the Vatican, remember? However, not even 1% of us would find a place there, so that's different from Israel, which can offer a place for all Jews.
The Irish, Seamus, have Ireland. The Jews tried the 'pic and mix' variety of living within national borders and, in every case Seamus, as Sarah points out, they were persecuted. So finally after 2000 years and the final straw 6million (jewish poles, jewish germans, jewish dutch, jewish serbs, jewish greeks, etc) dead, they said 'enough already!!!' Lets go home!
Spain, Italy and Portugal just to mention a few. They are places where Catholics make up the overwhelming majority of the people who live there. Catholic culture, food, holidays, etc are a vital part of how these countries function, and how the people live there daily lives. And you know what, that fine, good for then. I've been to Spain during Semana Santa, and it was beautiful. Why is it too much for the world to handle, that there is on tiny, small little country where the Jews can have that?
It is persecution and oppression of Palestinians (and routine destruction of Lebanon every few years) that is not so easily handled.
it's an ethnicity. If your mother is jewish, you're jewish, if you officially convert to judaism, you are jewish. Israel is a state for the jews, not Judaism. Just like Italy is a state for italians or Japan for the japanese. And for the record there are dozens of muslim states and dozens of christian states on the planet. Yet you're obsessed with one tiny jewish state and you don't even understand what it means to be a jew.
Excuse me, Jews discovery of the written word? Evidence for that? Modern physics? Are you talking about the last centure only, if not what about Isaac Newton, Blaise Pascal, Gallileo? Vaccinations. What about Louis Pasteur? Give me a break. Those poor, dumb, gentiles, what have they ever done? Get over yourself.
...the Palestinians with the ancient Hebrews and Israelites. The promise to the seed of Jacob also entails them. So better Jews and Pals get along. Google: Tsvi Misinai and find out the strong links not to be hidden anymore !
You are not Jews, but Semite's. How else can people be antisemitic. A Jew is someone of the Judaism religion which is a religion of love. Not the hate spewing venomous person who recoils and strikes at an;y criticism of the Jew..
That's basic courtesy, and good journalistic ethics. Well, I can't wait for her response. This will be interesting...
Most Americans, aside from the Red Indians, know where the hell their ancestors came from -- possibly the British Isles, Africa, Germany, Italy , Poland, China, Lebanon etc. Would Helen suggest that all Americans get the hell out of America and go back to wherever their forefathers came from? Should President Obama go back to Nigeria and Helen back to Lebanon? If so, perhaps I'll book a flight to Vilna -- and then on to Israel, where we Jews ultimately all came from!
They are already in their land. All they have to do is get a State. In peace and negotiation with Israel
with its israeli neighbour - but it can't. Their leadership is split. Iran funds two militias on two israeli borders.
Jordan, that's why it was created.
now that this anti semitic old bag is gone. Other than Muslims, does she have any friends?
Christians who hate your guts, she is a Christian from Syria by the way.
When you display such crude racism towards Arabs and Muslims, who are "semetic", you display anti-semitism as well. hypocrit. PS: I am not muslim and consider Helen Thomas a great great American journalist.
Lebanon, get your facts straight.
She kept her statement in her heart for more than 50 years and now she said it and retired. We American going to miss you Helen.
Jewish people has ther own country now, ISRAEL.. they was wainting more than 2000 years to return, than the jewish people mut live in Israel, .. why living in USA and EU ? go to live in Israel than,, Please.
For this non-Jewish Brit, if British Jews want to leave that's fine with me. But I am very happy that we have the benefit here of so many talented Jews helping to build our common society, along with Muslims, Christians and agnostics like me - variety is great!
is yours "Brit" the rest may learn
yeah especially to see the arabs there shove and push the brit cops in to fleeing for their lives at demonstrations there as seen all over on youtube. get a life.