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Posted: May 25, 2008

5 questions about Pastor Hagee and the Holocaust

David Brog (short bio here) is Executive Director of Christians United for Israel, the organization founded by Pastor John Hagee (A dialogue I had with Brog two years ago is here).

Last week, Hagee was involved in a controversy - not for the first time - that resulted in a decision by presidential candidate John McCain to publicly reject Hagee's endorsement. McCain did this after is was revealed that Hagee "once described Adolf Hitler as a divine agent sent to force the Jews back to Israel" (more about this story here). In a written interview, Brog tries to explain Hagee's remarks.

Here is the interview:

1. The first question is an obvious one. Can you explain this quote in a way that will resonate with the readers:

"Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says - Jeremiah writing ? 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."


The theological exercise in which Pastor Hagee was engaged is so common that they have a fancy name for it: theodicy. This is the struggle to explain how a loving God could permit evil in the world. Religious thinkers have been debating this most difficult of questions for centuries and, of course, no one has come up with an answer that "resonates" with everyone. We just need to agree to disagree.

Pastor Hagee's view that an omnipotent God must sanction the evil in our world actually has deep roots in Jewish thought. To cite just one example, the Talmud teaches us that the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed because of "sinat hinam," or baseless hatred. In other words, our own Talmud teaches that God used the Romans to perpetrate the greatest tragedy in the history of the Jewish people (until the Holocaust) because of Jewish sins.

We are certainly free to disagree with both the Talmud and Pastor Hagee on why God permits such atrocities. But I don't think it's fair to single out Pastor Hagee and act as if his approach is so unusual, unique, or foreign. Those who are shocked by Pastor Hagee's theodicy demonstrate only that they are unfamiliar with centuries of Judeo-Christian theodicy.

2. Pastor Hagee was saying that people were "grossly misrepresenting my position on issues most near and dear to my heart". How was he misinterpreted?

Pastor Hagee was struggling to find an explanation for why a loving God would permit the horror of the Holocaust. But the search for an explanation for evil must never be confused with an effort to excuse that evil. Most in the media missed this very crucial distinction and suggested that Pastor Hagee actually thinks the Holocaust was a good thing. Nothing could be further from the truth. Let's face it, blogs and sound bites are not exactly the best place to discuss such difficult theological questions.

3. In a speech a couple of months ago, rabbi Eric Yoffie of the Jewish Reform movement has said this: "By what right do we expect others to walk away from those who make anti-Jewish or anti-Israel statements when we will not walk away from those who make anti-Islam or anti-Catholic statements?" Some might say that Hagee's statements vindicated his claim - one can't expect others to reject anti-Semitism while one embraces a Pastor that see Hitler as a messenger of god. How will you convince them that these are two diferent cases?

I will convince them that they are different by pointing out the enormous and obvious differences. Pastor Hagee is a devoted friend of the Jews. The man has literally devoted his life to fighting anti-Semitism and supporting the State of Israel. Only a moral myopic could confuse this stalwart friend with an anti-Semite.

When trying to distinguish friend from foe, we would be wise to judge people by their actions. We would be making a terrible mistake to permit a few controversial comments to obscure our recognition of Pastor Hagee?s lifetime of work on our behalf. We have too many enemies, and too few friends, to be so cavalier in our judgment.

I must also point out that Rabbi Yoffie was far too quick to accuse Pastor Hagee of anti-Catholicism. Pastor Hagee never called the Catholic Church the ugly names reported in the media, and his criticism of the Catholic Church was limited to past anti-Semitism. Pastor Hagee has since expressed his deep regret for any hurt caused or misimpressions created in his zeal to combat anti-Semitism. He and Bill Donahue, the head of the Catholic League, are now friends. In fact, Bill Donahue said the following of Pastor Hagee on Thursday:

One week ago today, I met with Pastor Hagee in my office. I found him to be sincere, apologetic and friendly. I also found him to be the strongest Christian defender of Israel I have ever met, and that is why attempts to portray him as anything but a genuine friend to Jews - one for whom the Holocaust is the horror of horrors - is despicable.

4. If Pasor Hagee was merely saying that the sovereignty of the Lord operated over Hitler - was it a mistake on the part of candidate John McCain to reject his endorsement?

I regret Senator McCain's decision. But I can't say that I don't understand it. There is great hostility out there towards people who take the Bible literally. This is in many ways the last acceptable prejudice in America today. People who believe in an omnipotent God and who search the Bible for answers explanations of current events or history are subjected to the ugliest ridicule and derision. It may well be too much to ask a public figure to take on this kind of uphill battle.

In trying to create a more tolerant America, we should strive to extend ours tolerance to Orthodox Jews and Catholics and evangelical Christians. We need to ask ourselves, how would the faith of our grandparents fare in the current climate?

5. Two years ago, you wrote this (in a dialogue we had here): "you are right that many American Jews are uncomfortable joining evangelicals in support of Israel because they believe that evangelicals are too conservative when it comes to American social policy, Israeli foreign policy, or both. I think that this discomfort is largely misplaced." Don't you think the this recent controversy might make not just American Jews - but also Israelis - uncomfortable with the support they get from Christian Evangelicals?

I'm certain that this controversy will make some Jews uncomfortable. But the discomfort would still be misplaced. We as Jews are supposed to judge men not by what they believe, but by what they do. For Jews, actions are what matter.

What is far more important than how Pastor Hagee explains the past Holocaust is what he is doing to prevent a second Holocaust. Pastor Hagee has done more to defend Israel and the Jewish people than anyone else I know. He has literally devoted his adult life to the effort to combat anti-Semitism and build support for the Jewish State. Despite death threats from anti-Semites, despite protest marches from neo-Nazis, and despite the shrill complaints of suspicious Jews, Pastor Hagee has persevered in his work on our behalf.

Do we really want to treat our friends like this? Do we really want to ignore years of devoted labor on our behalf because of a few controversial statements? I, for one, do not.


An interview I had with Pastor Hagee back in 2006 is here

  1.   Pastor Hagee`s Remarks 06:03  |  Issa Dadoush 25/05/08
  2.   Pastor Hagee 08:30  |  M. Delphia Block 25/05/08
  3.   Hagee non-Christian teachings 08:35  |  sherry 25/05/08
  4.   to Issa 08:35  |  Stan 25/05/08
  5.   Why publish Hagee`s apologist? 08:40  |  Jason 25/05/08
  6.   How much more "humiliation" are the Jewish people able to bear ?? 09:43  |  Swiss (Dino) 25/05/08
  7.   In part, pastor Hagee is correct 09:44  |  Binyamin Dissen 25/05/08
  8.   Why Did Haaretz... 10:27  |  Yosemite 25/05/08
  9.   evangelicals ARE antisemites 10:36  |  raymond deane 25/05/08
  10.   familiar tune faced by many of israels prophets 10:55  |  Psalms 83 25/05/08
  11.   Does G.d really sanction Evil? 11:24  |  Chris 25/05/08
  12.   Hagee is NOT an anti-Semite 11:39  |  Paul Henzen 25/05/08
  13.   EXCUSE ME?! about this "christians united for israel" thing 11:44  |  eric 25/05/08
  14.   # 9 Evangelicals are NOT anti-Semites 11:59  |  Paul Henzen 25/05/08
  15.   not only anti-jewish bigotry 12:02  |  aron 25/05/08
  16.   Hagee (aqnd his ilk) 12:03  |  Natallie Durson 25/05/08
  17.   # 13 Excuse me?! Why Islamists want to destroy Israel 12:11  |  Paul Henzen 25/05/08
  18.   Just whom are the anti-semites 12:22  |  Binyamin Dissen 25/05/08
  19.   Hagee`s supporters are Kapos! 12:27  |  Proudest Zionist 25/05/08
  20.   No mention at all of Hagee`s anti-Muslim hatred 12:36  |  Tarik 25/05/08
  21.   Just hang on a minute - The apology makes sense ... 12:40  |  Elihu 25/05/08
  22.   # 19 `Evangelical Psycho Pigs` saved Jewish lives! 13:04  |  Paul Henzen 25/05/08
  23.   By definition, Hagee is an Anti-Semite 13:32  |  El-Birawi 25/05/08
  24.   Sensative issue 14:02  |  Dennis Slapo 25/05/08
  25.   # 3 YOU`RE A PALESTINIAN NO WONDER YOU SLAM HIM. 14:05  |  petra 25/05/08
  26.   # 7 SO TRUE HE IS A FRIEND TO ISRAEL. 14:05  |  petra 25/05/08
  27.   # 17 PAUL THANK YOU. 14:10  |  petra 25/05/08
  28.   # 6 Swiss...you are quickly becoming redundant 14:19  |  Lynn 25/05/08
  29.   # 19 YOU`RE WRONG 100%. 14:25  |  petra 25/05/08
  30.   # 13 eric....Carter is a fundamentalist 14:33  |  Lynn 25/05/08
  31.   Do you know what the word "jibe" means? 14:37  |  Rowan 25/05/08
  32.   Re:familiar tune faced by many of israels prophets 14:46  |  Roy 25/05/08
  33.   # 17 well then paul henzen in guetersloh, germany 15:00  |  eric 25/05/08
  34.   What Hagee "Does": Write Best Sellers on Strange Theories 15:04  |  Ovadiah ben Avraham 25/05/08
  35.   Many Israelis are very naive about Hagee & Co. 15:12  |  David 25/05/08
  36.   Amen Elihu @ 21. Would be real interested to hear the "end-game" 15:18  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  37.   Quick a CAT scan 15:21  |  Mark Lincoln 25/05/08
  38.   Remember folks 15:23  |  Mark Lincoln 25/05/08
  39.   # 33 eric - Evangelicals never persecuted or killed Jews 15:34  |  Paul Henzen 25/05/08
  40.   Paul Henzon # 39 Amen!! You`re right on the mark. 15:56  |  petra 25/05/08
  41.   Disrespectful, indecent and Hypocrite Evangelicals 15:56  |  j weigland 25/05/08
  42.   Jews and Christians have 3 choices 16:00  |  Bj 25/05/08
  43.   That`s right Paul. However, Scripture does tell us what will 16:05  |  happen when He comes 25/05/08
  44.   3 42 Bj.....evil in the world 16:10  |  Lynn 25/05/08
  45.   # 19 Proudest Zionist...lover of humanity? 16:15  |  Lynn 25/05/08
  46.   # 13 eric...BTW, 85% of all Americans 16:19  |  Lynn 25/05/08
  47.   HITLER WAS A REINCARNATION OF JENGIS KHAN 16:19  |  indrajaya 25/05/08
  48.   questions about Pastor Hagee and the Holocaust 16:20  |  FAIR-MINDED 25/05/08
  49.   Bj, those 3 choices are by far the saddest I`ve ever read. 16:23  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  50.   Holocaust in the Prophets: Isaiah 3:17-24 16:24  |  AliciaYasmeen 25/05/08
  51.   Hagee and his remark 16:26  |  Brod 25/05/08
  52.   The doers of the will of God 16:27  |  j weigland 25/05/08
  53.   Thank you Brod. Yes, there is a WAR taking place between the 16:44  |  Powers that be. 25/05/08
  54.   Children Hear and Obey 16:49  |  albert paul ortiz 25/05/08
  55.   militias, christian identity, and bigots 16:53  |  Anonymous 25/05/08
  56.   Hagee: Peace with Syria not the will of God 16:58  |  j weigland 25/05/08
  57.   Hagee is not an anti-semite 16:59  |  Anonymous 25/05/08
  58.   fools despise instruction 17:07  |  albert paul ortiz 25/05/08
  59.   Anonymous, Tell me how the KKK is a "Christian idenity" group. 17:07  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  60.   McCain?s Defense of Hagee 17:08  |  Gary Wiram 25/05/08
  61.   OH PASTOR PASTOR HAGEE 17:23  |  THE TEACHER/INSTRUCT 25/05/08
  62.   Virginia, about Nativist groups 17:29  |  Anonymous 25/05/08
  63.   Real good point Gary. And I wonder if Hagee will admit his error? 17:29  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  64.   Love 17:30  |  Clay Rowe 25/05/08
  65.   State of confusion 17:36  |  Anonymous 25/05/08
  66.   Hagee`s ultimate holocaust - Armageddon 17:38  |  Chelemer 25/05/08
  67.   #56 Weigland: "you know the tree by its fruit" 17:38  |  AliciaYasmeen 25/05/08
  68.   PAUL HENZEN, Germany 17:43  |  Jew by choice 25/05/08
  69.   The Jews wrote of it Teacher/Instruct. The world as we know it 17:46  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  70.   Okay # 62, just so we`re clear, "Christian Identity Movements" 17:56  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  71.   Insert (admit his mistake) after, "and if he does" in post 62 18:03  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  72.   Make that #63, not 62. 18:04  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  73.   Oh, I just read # 65, and completely agree. 18:09  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  74.   # 68 Jew by Choice - `Evangelical` 18:10  |  Paul Henzen 25/05/08
  75.   Oh please Chelemer, Pastor Hagee is NOT out to destroy the Jews!! 18:20  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  76.   Hagee`s predicament 18:22  |  Chelemer 25/05/08
  77.   real peace is based on compassion and logic not myth or religion 18:23  |  anti-racist 25/05/08
  78.   #16 natallia 18:33  |  wh 25/05/08
  79.   # 64-"Y`shua ADORES Israel and the Jews!" He must, because 18:35  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  80.   Hagee and Holocausts 18:37  |  Colin Wright 25/05/08
  81.   Chelemer, I must have missed that one. Where is it written? 18:40  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  82.   Bottom Line Is No Holocaust... 18:40  |  Nick 25/05/08
  83.   # 77, Where is the "logic" in God`s compassion? 18:42  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  84.   Rev Hagee 18:54  |  carl covington 25/05/08
  85.   What I find disturbing 18:56  |  KUTW 25/05/08
  86.   Hagee, scapegoated, like Jews. 18:57  |  Nathaniel 25/05/08
  87.   RE: #43 19:00  |  Nick 25/05/08
  88.   #16, Truer words were never written 19:06  |  Chelemer 25/05/08
  89.   Pastor Hagee`s Beliefs 19:20  |  Nick 25/05/08
  90.   Raymond Deane 19:21  |  Avi 25/05/08
  91.   Talkback Monitor 19:28  |  Nick 25/05/08
  92.   Hagee`s Via Dolorosa 19:28  |  Chelemer 25/05/08
  93.   Hagee the theoidiot 19:42  |  Boycott 25/05/08
  94.   Here comes Apophis 19:49  |  hala 25/05/08
  95.   to #16 &88 19:53  |  elsie. 25/05/08
  96.   Hagees Referance Jeremiah 16 19:56  |  Psalms 83 25/05/08
  97.   Pastor 19:58  |  Shmuelshachor 25/05/08
  98.   To Petra 20:13  |  Issa 25/05/08
  99.   Nicky, Nicky, Nicky - Could God have gathered His people some 20:19  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  100.   Pastor Hagee 20:25  |  Victor Styrsky 25/05/08
  101.   # 87, My message? And what were Messiah`s Words from the cross? 20:26  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  102.   Issa 20:48  |  Psalms 83 25/05/08
  103.   WOW! FIRST TIME ROSNER WROTE SOMETHING SMART!!! 20:57  |  Bella Goldman 25/05/08
  104.   # 96, for His purpose, read on to verse 21 21:03  |  Virginia 25/05/08
  105.   paz para #97 21:09  |  elsie 25/05/08
  106.   #99 Virginia: you hit the nail on the head! 21:10  |  AliciaYasmeen 25/05/08
  107.   mark lincoln and chinese engineers 21:11  |  yair 25/05/08
  108.   with friends like these who needs enemies.... 00:59  |  lennybruce 26/05/08
  109.   virginia 01:04  |  Psalms 83 26/05/08
  110.   Thank you Alicia, Let us pray that God will mold and 02:45  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  111.   A question for KUTW. 03:10  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  112.   Rosner. you are an obsequious fool 03:44  |  examiner 26/05/08
  113.   Too funny to comment, Rsoner! what a piece of work! HA HA 04:48  |  Victor 26/05/08
  114.   Please, FIRE ROSNER! 06:09  |  Mark 26/05/08
  115.   Evangelicals and Pre Millenarians 06:39  |  CCB 26/05/08
  116.   # 39 mr. henzen 07:21  |  eric 26/05/08
  117.   # 46 to lynn 07:28  |  eric 26/05/08
  118.   # 28 Lynn 10:04  |  Swiss (Dino) 26/05/08
  119.   G-D in His Wisdom turn men`s evil into goods for His children 10:23  |  mary for jews 26/05/08
  120.   Mark, no one is forcing you into Rosner`s Domain! 12:13  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  121.   Hagee 15:54  |  psi 26/05/08
  122.   VIRGINIA 16:50  |  Jew by Choice 26/05/08
  123.   a Jewish state with no Jews 17:15  |  Susan 26/05/08
  124.   Jeremiah 25:I send Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, My servant 17:24  |  Joseph 26/05/08
  125.   Jew by choice, not by birth? Sh`ma inturpreted means listen 17:38  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  126.   VIRGINIA and the other PROSELYZERS 18:33  |  Jew by Choice 26/05/08
  127.   HAGEE 18:36  |  alan cohen 26/05/08
  128.   Many Jewish Zionists have said the same as Rev. Hagee 18:50  |  DJStahl 26/05/08
  129.   # 126, proselyzing, a new word for you? 19:14  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  130.   # 128 "Sensitively chosen" or not, I pray that he, Pat Robertson 19:23  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  131.   Same old story... 19:26  |  Nick 26/05/08
  132.   Joseph #124 Hitler is not Nebuchadnezzar 20:06  |  Brod 26/05/08
  133.   5 questions about haaretz newspaper 20:18  |  Gaby 26/05/08
  134.   Re: #1 - Hagee`s comment was not hateful. 20:25  |  Steven 26/05/08
  135.   John Hagee and Israel 21:20  |  MJ Hoeber 26/05/08
  136.   I am glad Pastor Hagee has David Brog at his side! 22:34  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  137.   re :134 23:13  |  Psalms 83 26/05/08
  138.   MJ Hoeber, my neighbor. I agree 100%. Hostility has no place in 23:26  |  Virginia 26/05/08
  139.   Re 126-Could you please stick to Hagee and his Holocaust remarks 23:51  |  Psalms 83 26/05/08
  140.   Psalms83, I posted a response to your #109 also that didn`t post 00:05  |  Virginia 27/05/08
  141.   #122 Good on you, Jew by choice! 00:33  |  hala 27/05/08
  142.   Testing, testing. Haaretz, could you please post at least 1 of my 00:41  |  2 replies to Psalms 27/05/08
  143.   Hagee`s opinions sounds like a little bit Jewish 01:15  |  Yechiel 27/05/08
  144.   Yechiel, great contrast in beliefs! Although I wouldn`t entirely 03:11  |  Virginia 27/05/08
  145.   Hagee 04:08  |  julie 27/05/08
  146.   Evangelical Need for Israel to Exist 04:32  |  julie 27/05/08
  147.   Statement by Pastor Hagee 04:49  |  Hagee Fan 27/05/08
  148.   Statement by Rabbi Scheinberg 04:50  |  Hagee Fan 27/05/08
  149.   Sis Virginia. keep up the good work 04:59  |  mary for jews 27/05/08
  150.   re 140 Psalms83, I posted a response to your #109 10:56  |  Psalms 83 27/05/08
  151.   Weak Mind, Weak History 14:17  |  G. Jolte 27/05/08
  152.   #98 your opinion mine differs.Have you spoken w/ hagee? 15:21  |  petra 27/05/08
  153.   #1 As a `christian` what`s your point? 15:28  |  petra 27/05/08
  154.   # 3 Sherry your pals have killed any peace talks 15:42  |  petra 27/05/08
  155.   # 19 No Zionist but, a perfect JOHNNY JIHAD. 15:47  |  petra 27/05/08
  156.   # 57 AMEN!!!! 15:58  |  petra 27/05/08
  157.   # 84 CARL YOU`RE A NUT JOB! 16:01  |  petra 27/05/08
  158.   Re 84. Rev Hagee 21:14  |  Psalms 83 27/05/08
  159.   Hagee Fan - what?!?!?! 22:07  |  Greg 27/05/08
  160.   RE 159 :Greg 23:31  |  Psalms 83 27/05/08
  161.   In part, pastor Hagee is correct 03:10  |  Longeen 28/05/08
  162.   PSALM83 WAKE UP, THERE IS NO "OLD TESTAMENT` FOR JEWS 03:36  |  Jew by Choice 28/05/08
  163.   Psalms 83 #160 08:00  |  Greg 28/05/08
  164.   Re:162-PSALM83 WAKE UP, THERE IS NO "OLD TESTAMENT` FOR JEWS 10:25  |  Psalms 83 28/05/08
  165.   Re:Psalms 83 #160 10:55  |  Psalms 83 28/05/08
  166.   Why publish Hagee`s apologist? 13:23  |  Augo Knoke 28/05/08
  167.   Pastor Hagee and the Holocaust 19:40  |  Steve Gure 28/05/08
  168.   Hagee 22:23  |  Mayola Gettelfinger 28/05/08
  169.   Job, Satan, and the Almighty 00:12  |  Reality Check 29/05/08
  170.   Joseph sold into slavery 00:20  |  Reality Check 29/05/08
  171.   The Prophets and the Scriptures 00:30  |  Reality Check 29/05/08
  172.   To Pedra; a lunatic or what? 08:23  |  sherry 29/05/08
  173.   Reality Check, That`s putting it clearly, Bravo!!! 13:39  |  Virginia 29/05/08
  174.   167# Ben Gurion did no more 17:23  |  Yechiel 29/05/08
  175.   Paul Henzen, you?ve misunderstood me 16:19  |  Proudest Zionist 30/05/08
  176.   #155, would you prefer JOHNNY JEW? 17:17  |  Proudest Zionist 30/05/08
  177.   REFORMAT OF #175 W/ FIXING FORMAT AND TYPOS 17:50  |  Proudest Zionist 30/05/08
  178.   The Great Day of the Lord 00:22  |  Friend of Jews 31/05/08
  179.   Friends of Jews 00:47  |  Concerned 31/05/08
  180.   re:176 21:22  |  Psalms 83 31/05/08
  181.   Re 175 youve misunderstood me 00:11  |  Psalms 83 01/06/08
  182.   if pastor haghee is wrong then what is right 19:25  |  George Duraisingh 02/06/08
  183.   An Evangelical Responds... 01:28  |  Tom Connolly 03/06/08
  184.   Jeremiah 16:14-18 00:56  |  Jim Byers 07/06/08
  185.   pastor hagee 06:00  |  charlotte 10/07/08
  186.   war land 06:08  |  charlotte 10/07/08
  187.   Russia/Iran 04:54  |  Paul 15/08/08
  188.   Faith 03:50  |  Paul 16/08/08


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