5 questions about Pastor Hagee and the Holocaust

David Brog (short bio here) is Executive Director of Christians United for Israel, the organization founded by Pastor John Hagee (A dialogue I had with Brog two years ago is here).

Last week, Hagee was involved in a controversy - not for the first time - that resulted in a decision by presidential candidate John McCain to publicly reject Hagee's endorsement. McCain did this after is was revealed that Hagee "once described Adolf Hitler as a divine agent sent to force the Jews back to Israel" (more about this story here). In a written interview, Brog tries to explain Hagee's remarks.

Here is the interview:

1. The first question is an obvious one. Can you explain this quote in a way that will resonate with the readers:

"Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says - Jeremiah writing ? 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."

The theological exercise in which Pastor Hagee was engaged is so common that they have a fancy name for it: theodicy. This is the struggle to explain how a loving God could permit evil in the world. Religious thinkers have been debating this most difficult of questions for centuries and, of course, no one has come up with an answer that "resonates" with everyone. We just need to agree to disagree.

Pastor Hagee's view that an omnipotent God must sanction the evil in our world actually has deep roots in Jewish thought. To cite just one example, the Talmud teaches us that the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed because of "sinat hinam," or baseless hatred. In other words, our own Talmud teaches that God used the Romans to perpetrate the greatest tragedy in the history of the Jewish people (until the Holocaust) because of Jewish sins.

We are certainly free to disagree with both the Talmud and Pastor Hagee on why God permits such atrocities. But I don't think it's fair to single out Pastor Hagee and act as if his approach is so unusual, unique, or foreign. Those who are shocked by Pastor Hagee's theodicy demonstrate only that they are unfamiliar with centuries of Judeo-Christian theodicy.

2. Pastor Hagee was saying that people were "grossly misrepresenting my position on issues most near and dear to my heart". How was he misinterpreted?

Pastor Hagee was struggling to find an explanation for why a loving God would permit the horror of the Holocaust. But the search for an explanation for evil must never be confused with an effort to excuse that evil. Most in the media missed this very crucial distinction and suggested that Pastor Hagee actually thinks the Holocaust was a good thing. Nothing could be further from the truth. Let's face it, blogs and sound bites are not exactly the best place to discuss such difficult theological questions.

3. In a speech a couple of months ago, rabbi Eric Yoffie of the Jewish Reform movement has said this: "By what right do we expect others to walk away from those who make anti-Jewish or anti-Israel statements when we will not walk away from those who make anti-Islam or anti-Catholic statements?" Some might say that Hagee's statements vindicated his claim - one can't expect others to reject anti-Semitism while one embraces a Pastor that see Hitler as a messenger of god. How will you convince them that these are two diferent cases?

I will convince them that they are different by pointing out the enormous and obvious differences. Pastor Hagee is a devoted friend of the Jews. The man has literally devoted his life to fighting anti-Semitism and supporting the State of Israel. Only a moral myopic could confuse this stalwart friend with an anti-Semite.

When trying to distinguish friend from foe, we would be wise to judge people by their actions. We would be making a terrible mistake to permit a few controversial comments to obscure our recognition of Pastor Hagee?s lifetime of work on our behalf. We have too many enemies, and too few friends, to be so cavalier in our judgment.

I must also point out that Rabbi Yoffie was far too quick to accuse Pastor Hagee of anti-Catholicism. Pastor Hagee never called the Catholic Church the ugly names reported in the media, and his criticism of the Catholic Church was limited to past anti-Semitism. Pastor Hagee has since expressed his deep regret for any hurt caused or misimpressions created in his zeal to combat anti-Semitism. He and Bill Donahue, the head of the Catholic League, are now friends. In fact, Bill Donahue said the following of Pastor Hagee on Thursday:

One week ago today, I met with Pastor Hagee in my office. I found him to be sincere, apologetic and friendly. I also found him to be the strongest Christian defender of Israel I have ever met, and that is why attempts to portray him as anything but a genuine friend to Jews - one for whom the Holocaust is the horror of horrors - is despicable.

4. If Pasor Hagee was merely saying that the sovereignty of the Lord operated over Hitler - was it a mistake on the part of candidate John McCain to reject his endorsement?

I regret Senator McCain's decision. But I can't say that I don't understand it. There is great hostility out there towards people who take the Bible literally. This is in many ways the last acceptable prejudice in America today. People who believe in an omnipotent God and who search the Bible for answers explanations of current events or history are subjected to the ugliest ridicule and derision. It may well be too much to ask a public figure to take on this kind of uphill battle.

In trying to create a more tolerant America, we should strive to extend ours tolerance to Orthodox Jews and Catholics and evangelical Christians. We need to ask ourselves, how would the faith of our grandparents fare in the current climate?

5. Two years ago, you wrote this (in a dialogue we had here): "you are right that many American Jews are uncomfortable joining evangelicals in support of Israel because they believe that evangelicals are too conservative when it comes to American social policy, Israeli foreign policy, or both. I think that this discomfort is largely misplaced." Don't you think the this recent controversy might make not just American Jews - but also Israelis - uncomfortable with the support they get from Christian Evangelicals?

I'm certain that this controversy will make some Jews uncomfortable. But the discomfort would still be misplaced. We as Jews are supposed to judge men not by what they believe, but by what they do. For Jews, actions are what matter.

What is far more important than how Pastor Hagee explains the past Holocaust is what he is doing to prevent a second Holocaust. Pastor Hagee has done more to defend Israel and the Jewish people than anyone else I know. He has literally devoted his adult life to the effort to combat anti-Semitism and build support for the Jewish State. Despite death threats from anti-Semites, despite protest marches from neo-Nazis, and despite the shrill complaints of suspicious Jews, Pastor Hagee has persevered in his work on our behalf.

Do we really want to treat our friends like this? Do we really want to ignore years of devoted labor on our behalf because of a few controversial statements? I, for one, do not.


An interview I had with Pastor Hagee back in 2006 is here