Interview with President Bush: the transcript

I met with President Bush Monday morning, with three Israeli colleagues, and you can read the article describing it here. A photo of this meeting can be found here. However, I thought some of you might be interested in reading a fuller transcript of this interview, and you can do it here (I did edit it, because it was very long, but you can still get the sense of what was going on). It starts with the president talking about his daughter?s wedding:

THE PRESIDENT: It was a big deal. I didn't realize how big a deal it was until the moment came, and then I realized how blessed a man I am that my little girl found such a good guy. But it was -- she looked beautiful and stunning, the ranch looked great, the sun set just at the right time.

Q. Then you came back, right, to the rain --

THE PRESIDENT: Came the rain. Yes, then I'm heading over, going to your country. I'm looking forward to my trip to Israel and Saudi and Egypt. You know, I've been given an honor of speaking in the Knesset and I'm looking forward to it. It's -- working on my speech right now. There's no better place to talk about democracy and the history of democracies and the challenge of democracies in dealing with existential threats of terrorists and state-sponsored terrorists than in the Knesset. And I'm not sure how long I'm going to go on for, but I'd like your advice -- long or short? Either way, I'm looking forward, it's going to be a good deal.

And every time -- I'm not going to anticipate -- okay, I am anticipating your questions, but every time I've come to the Middle East it's always the same questions: Can you succeed? And I'll wait for your questions, but my only point is, this is a very complex part of the world.

Anyway, we'll go around the corner here. Fire away. I could wax poetically forever.

Q Mr. President, Prime Minister Olmert is under a corruption probe and is basically almost on the verge of being forced out from office. And his counterpart, Abu Abbas, is also very weak. So really the question is, do you still think that you can achieve peace until the end of 2008?

THE PRESIDENT: I do, yes. Look, I -- first of all, let me say something about Prime Minister Olmert. It's a legal matter inside the system, the system will deal with it. Israel is -- believes in rule of law, and I understand that; believes in fair hearings and giving a person a chance. And having said that, my relations with the Prime Minister have been nothing but excellent. I found him to be an honest guy. He loves his family, he's easy to talk to, he's a strategic thinker. And so we'll see what happens.

But the vision of a state is such a powerful notion and such an important notion for Israel's very existence, that I do believe that we have a chance to get something defined. There is a -- this is not an Olmert plan; this is a plan of a government. Tzipi Livni is handling the negotiations -- I'm not telling you anything you don't know -- Barak is involved. And on the Palestinian side, there's more than one person involved.
See, the interesting thing that's happened during my presidency is twofold: One, there's been clarity for people to see the world the way it really is -- a failed leadership of Hamas in Gaza, for example, or the true aims of these extremist killers -- plus the emergence of thought in Israel that the only way to exist in the long term is for there to be a Palestinian state. And it's a powerful idea. And therefore, I believe in powerful ideas, and I believe with U.S. help that the negotiators can come up with the definition of a state.

The state won't exist until certain obligations are met, but it's the definition itself which becomes a powerful engine for the marginalization of people who murder innocent to achieve their objectives. And that's really what the struggle is about. And it's the same struggle in Iraq and it's the same struggle in Lebanon. And an effective Bush foreign policy is to put the focus of the United States squarely in the middle of the Middle East. That's like our top priority. And it should be. And it should be the top priority -- it is the top priority of this government. I'm talking about subsequent governments. I'm not checking out of here yet, but I'm beginning to --

Q How troubled are you by Iran's expansion of influence in Gaza and Lebanon? And most importantly, are you confident that you can stop Iran's drive to a nuclear capability?

THE PRESIDENT: Iran is an incredibly negative influence. They are sending weapons into Iraq. And we're pushing back hard, and will continue to do so. As you mentioned, they are -- Hezbollah now has -- no longer the great force against Israel, all of a sudden, they've turned against they're own people.

You know, on all these issues, just so you know, there needs -- I'm going to say the word several times -- maybe this is like the word of the day -- clarity. In my time as President, it's easy to excuse people until there's just kind of moments where it's so obvious that the skeptics can't see reality. It's one of the reasons I supported the elections in Gaza, because there had to be a moment for everybody to be able to express themselves, and the expression, by the way, was we're sick and tired of corrupt government. We were tired of Arafat's false promises; we want to live in peace.

But instead, what they got was a government of war. It's not what they campaigned on, but that's what they got. And all of a sudden people now see the truth. And the truth is Hamas is not a passive, political party trying to embetter people's lives; they are trying to destroy Israel. That's the truth. Well, the other truth is, is that Iran is involved in funding Hamas and Hezbollah, and it's that Iranian influence which I'm deeply concerned about, but there needs to be more than just the United States concerned about it.

One of the interesting strategic shifts that has taken place in the Middle East is that no longer is Israel being blamed for the problems of the Middle East in a lot of quarters. All of a sudden it's a shift of strategic thought because of the Iranian influence, so it's a positive development.

Q Anything that can yet be done before you leave office [about the nuclearization of Iran]?

THE PRESIDENT: I think what definitely will be done is a structure on how to deal with this -- to try to resolve this diplomatically; in other words, sanctions, pressures, financial sanctions; a history of pressure that will serve as a framework to make sure other countries are involved. As I told you, all options are on the table.

Q I would like to ask about recent events in Lebanon, Mr. President, and about the fact that we do have in place U.N. resolutions, Security Council resolutions, that were meant to deal with the problem of Hezbollah. Nevertheless, it has not seemed to help. So what kind of framework would you advise for dealing with the problem of Hezbollah in the future?

THE PRESIDENT: I'd advise the world backing Siniora. He's a good guy; he's tough and he's in a really tough situation. I admire him. And we're doing that by support of the Lebanese armed forces. We believe that he needs to have a modern force behind him that's capable of responding. Remember, when he went in the northern part of Lebanon, he went after some camps when they had radicals inside his country that were destabilizing. That was a positive signal. It was a hopeful moment. And it inspired me to then send one of our top military people to Siniora to ask, what do you need? If this is your attitude, if this is your will, then we want to help you.

See, I have found you can't make people have courage. That's -- it's a wellspring inside their soul. But you can support courageous people. And so that's our attitude. And then to remind countries like France and others that, one, the Lebanese democracy is vital for a peaceful Middle East, it's a part of the vision -- and that there are U.N. Security Council resolutions that need to be upheld.

Look, you're looking at a guy who made the case early in my presidency that if you're going to pass a resolution, you better mean it. I don't know how many resolutions that were on Iraq, 16 or 17, you know? And you can't have a world where people are held to account unless there are consequences.

Q Back to the Palestinian question. In your meeting this week in Israel, are you going to demand from Israel certain things, such as settlements removal, or getting to a more concrete agreement in writing about borders?

THE PRESIDENT: I will come not as somebody who demands, but somebody who encourages. I've said from the beginning of my presidency the United States cannot impose peace. It's tempting to say to the United States, go make it happen. That's what happens all the time, you know -- you go in there. And lasting peace happens when people understand that in this case, the definition of a state is the first step toward peace. And it's hard work.

And as I told you, I'm not running for the Nobel Peace Prize; I'm just trying to be a guy to use the influence of the United States to move the process along.

People say to me, aren't you a little slow on the draw? Where have you been, man? Well, they just forget that when I showed up there was an intifada, and there was an Iraq -- then I made the decision on Iraq. We had an event like Lebanon. I mean, there's a certain course of history that sometimes makes it easier, sometimes makes it more difficult to use -- and we've got a lot of influence, I readily concede that -- but to use it in a proper way so that the peace is lasting, so we don't create false hopes, so that there's -- and I think one of the very hopeful things that's happened on this issue is that Palestinians -- some Palestinians -- are beginning to get a sense for there is a better future.

I don't see how -- I just don't see how the Middle East evolves without a Palestinian state that's free and democratic. I don't see how the Middle East can evolve without a democratic Lebanon, or the Middle East -- evolve into a peaceful, kind of normal place without an Iraq that succeeds. And by the way, Iraq is succeeding. And that ought to make a lot of people in Israel comfortable -- more comfortable than what the status quo could have been.

Q Are you convinced that Abbas is a viable partner, specifically --

THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

Q Mr. President, there's been a lot of talk recently about the possibility of new negotiations between Israel and Syria, and about the assumed reluctance of the United States administration about such talks.

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, first of all, I have made some very clear conditions for the United States talking with them. We said, look, you're housing Hamas. You're enabling transit of materials to Hezbollah in Lebanon -- at this moment they were also trying to control and run Lebanon. They've made life miserable for the young democracy in Iraq, and that -- it's easy to get our attention, and that has actually become a constructive force, a positive force, a force for peace, not a force that continually uses these extremist groups to destabilize the neighborhood. That's the position of the United States, separated from Syria by an ocean.

Israeli politicians, responsible to the people and responsive to the people, got to come up with their own vision of security. And I have never told Olmert one thing or another about what to do with his security. That's not what friends do. I expect an explanation, but I'm -- he made a decision that he made -- or no decisions have been made except the idea of trying to get some dialogue moving, which is -- and I know him well, and know that he is as concerned about Israeli security as any other person that's ever been the Prime Minister of Israel. And so I presume the decision is made.

My hope, of course, is that a decision is made with Israel's interests at heart. And my -- one of the things I try to do is think strategically, and the biggest long-term threat to peace in the Middle East is Iran. The Iranian connection with Syria is very troubling for not only the United States, but Israel, as well as other Arab nations. And anything done should be -- keep that strategic vision in mind. And of all the people who understand the existential threat that the Iranians pose, it's the Israelis.

Q I have more of a general question. Looking back at your seven last years here, do you think there was a point of time that you have -- should have maybe made different decisions from the one you took, pertaining to the Israeli original conflict and other --

THE PRESIDENT: Yes, that's an interesting question. They always ask me, would you have done things different? I probably would have toned my rhetoric down at times. And I think it's important to speak clearly and then do what you say you're going to do. But in terms of the -- in terms of Israel, I would hope that history would say, from everybody's perspective, including the Israeli perspective, that this is a guy who clearly saw the world the way it is.

And the temptation in this world is to be an isolationist and a protectionist. It's just too hard, you know? It's -- we'd much rather be judged by the latest Gallup poll than making the necessary decisions to keep the peace, to do the hard things now to confront the realities of the world in order to make sure our children grow up in peace.

And I can assure you that al Qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah don't think about the comforts of life. They are driven. And the fundamental challenge facing this world is, will countries like the United States be prepared to continue to stand and lead?

And so you asked about legacy and all that business -- which I don't worry about, by the way. I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office. But one of them has got to be, he clearly saw the threat and he did something about it.