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Peres: I didn't imagine Qassams would be fired from Gaza after pullout
By Lily Galili, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Gaza, peace, Shimon Peres 

On the eve of Israel's 60th Independence Day, President Shimon Peres cites the country's achievements but he is also aware of the public's sense of cautious joy, and how that feeling exists despite the government, not because of it.

"So what?" he says in an interview this week at the President's Residence. "It's not terrible that there is no rejoicing at the government. Governments all over the world are losing their strength. Besides, the Jews gave the world dissatisfaction. Celebration is not a Jewish thing. Still, I'm optimistic, though I'm not satisfied."

Such an expression uses the plays on words Peres enjoys so much, but it does not mask the deep change in his rhetoric and of his world view. The past decade has handed him some disappointments.
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"Although in '98 everything seemed dark because of Rabin's murder, I believed we could still move the peace process ahead more quickly. I did not think we'd have so many problems. I believed the separation between the West Bank and Gaza would make things easier, not harder. I did not imagine that we would leave Gaza and they would fire Qassams from there; I did not imagine that Hamas would show so strongly in the elections.

This admission of disappointment, though not of despair, is not the only change in the man. He never used words like "revenge" or "destruction" before in a national sense. But he did use them in his speeches in Poland marking 65 years since the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. He described Israel's success after the Holocaust as "revenge," and the two intifadas as attempts to destroy Israel. It might be assumed that the rhetoric stemmed from the fact that this was Peres' first visit to Poland as president. However, Peres said, "It's not because I am president, it's because of Ahmadinejad," the president told Haaretz. "I identify a phenomenon similar to Hitler, and the world is once again indifferent. I can't say for sure he would behave like Hitler, but the world is taking him lightly. Not only we are isolated. The world has changed. We have become both more global and more individualistic."

If you had spoken like this in the past, you might still be prime minister.

"That could be, but I'm not sure it would be a good thing if I were prime minister. I can't say I did things this way on purpose, but the result allowed me to focus on things that were really important to me, and not on the need to govern. My record while I was not prime minister is richer than my record as prime minister, even though others were sometimes luckier than I was. Apparently history has its own wisdom."

We asked Peres to name what he thought were his greatest achievements. His response: relations with France, Operation Kadesh, Israel Aerospace Industries, the Dimona nuclear reactor, defense research, Entebbe, rehabilitation of the army after the Yom Kippur War, overcoming the inflation of the 1980s, peace with Jordan, Oslo, and the establishment of cities like Upper Nazareth.

Peres carefully skirts his contribution to the establishment of the settlement of Ofra, authorized when he was defense minister in 1975.

Peres sees Israel's biggest missed opportunity as the blocking of the London agreement in 1987 to transfer the West Bank to Jordanian control.

"I thought the option should be Jordanian, although that, too, was not without its problems," he recalls. "The question was, who would rule, Arafat or Hussein. To this day I have no doubt it was our biggest diplomatic mistake."

But Peres did not give up entirely. He continued to promote the Israeli-Jordanian-Palestinian economic initiative. Its map is a world away from the colonial division of the Sykes-Picot agreement dividing the country between the French and the British in 1916. "You can have economic and ethnic relationships, and not only political border," he says.

Experience, in our region too, actually shows that national interests outstrip economic ones.

"That may be, but national priorities change when a person goes from being poor to being middle class. I'm talking about economics not only in terms of money, but in a wider social sense."

On the assumption that we cannot proceed on two tracks simultaneously, is the Palestinian track preferable over the Syrian track?

"Without a doubt. Even if we have to speak to everyone who wants to talk to us, and although the Syrian issue seems easier, the Palestinian issue comes first. Even if only because the Syrian situation is static and the Palestinian is dynamic. Without Arafat, for example, we would not have gotten to Oslo. What influenced him, among other things, was that the Europeans embraced him."

Perhaps the lesson is to embrace Hamas, or at least not to choke it?

"There's no comparison. They managed to bend Arafat. In any case, the Fatah option must not be weakened."

That sounds depressing.

"Not at all. We only need to suit ourselves to changing circumstances, for good and for bad. To promote economic peace, which changes societies and at the same time suit our means of warfare to new threats. There's no point for an F16 to run after one terrorist. There must be other means and we have them. At this very moment there are 30 or 40 scientists creating innovative means of warfare. You have no idea of the IDF's strength. We chose not to use it, but it exists."

It seems that you are blaming the Palestinians more than in the past.

That's true. We became more flexible and they became more extreme. From this starting point I want to create good will toward Israel, to make friends."

It seems that the Jew in you was born after you were left last of your generation of giants.

Indeed, I have a feeling of responsibility to future heritage. I love this burden. Life should have significance."

Related articles:
  • Peres, at Warsaw uprising memorial: Israel will avenge Holocaust through peace
  • Peres: Fight terror - reduce global dependence on oil
  • Peres in Poland: Israel ready to forgo land to achieve real peace
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      1.   PERES WRONG ON EVERY SINGLE COUNT... 04:13  |  Joel Stern 07/05/08
      2.   Peres always says the obvious and does the unexpected. 04:21  |  Akram Zekaria 07/05/08
      3.   Peres and Olmert are defeatists and fools 04:22  |  Rachel 07/05/08
      4.   Did he think? 04:28  |  Mark Lincoln 07/05/08
      5.   Shimon Perez is an interesting man 04:29  |  Mark Lincoln 07/05/08
      6.   another dumb israeli... 04:42  |  kivi 07/05/08
      7.   Hypocrit ! 05:22  |  Pete 07/05/08
      8.   What world view can be so aberrant 05:22  |  Johnson 07/05/08
      9.   The Truth is no leader can fix ME crisis 05:34  |  Shimon Cleopas 07/05/08
      10.   PERES,REBBE SHNEERSON WARNED,AUTONOMY TALKS WILL COST CASUALTIES 05:53  |  VOICE of MOSHIACH))) 07/05/08
      11.   Really? 06:01  |  JJ 07/05/08
      12.   Peres - Too Often Surprised 06:13  |  Tod Zuckerman 07/05/08
      13.   Mr Peres as a highly literate man this must have slippped by you. 06:13  |  PETER SM 07/05/08
      14.   orthodox jews 06:40  |  zichron 07/05/08
      15.   "never imagined" 06:42  |  ron 07/05/08
      16.   "Didn`t think"..."Didn`t know" ... "Didn`t imagine" 06:50  |  Sima 07/05/08
      17.   Shows from Peres to Olmert to Kadima all have been a failure 06:52  |  THE WARRIOR 07/05/08
      18.   Peres also thinks we shouldn`t attack Iran. 07:36  |  Jerusalem Jew 07/05/08
      19.   Even A Child can see it 07:56  |  GA 07/05/08
      20.   Peres 08:09  |  disgusted 07/05/08
      21.   Simple Common Sense 08:13  |  A Non-US-Ally 07/05/08
      22.   Peres, you are a pipe dreamer. 08:20  |  Rafi 07/05/08
      23.   a lack of imagination 08:47  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 07/05/08
      24.   He though that the issue was the occupation. 08:50  |  Bartley Kulp 07/05/08
      25.   Peres was Surprised 08:52  |  Dr. David Feigenbaum 07/05/08
      26.   What is the reason that Palestinians shoot at us (question) 08:52  |  Bartley Kulp 07/05/08
      27.   Is Peres admitting that he made a mistake?? 09:17  |  Zev 07/05/08
      28.   The two Intifadas meant to destroy Israel !! 09:22  |  Steve the Pals. 07/05/08
      29.   What a pathetic person 09:30  |  Alex 07/05/08
      30.   Instead of a welcome mat: Hamas says KILL ALL JEWS 09:32  |  x-ray 07/05/08
      31.   Peres:"I didn`t imagine ......" 09:32  |  I.Kemp 07/05/08
      32.   YOU BETTER ASK SHARON WHY 09:33  |  indrajaya 07/05/08
      33.   A terrible quote from Peres: Israel in a nutshell 09:34  |  Clickfool 07/05/08
      34.   Qassams and Oslo 09:36  |  Gilad 07/05/08
      35.   it only proves 09:45  |  jojo 07/05/08
      36.   Peres is full of crap... What is going to say when he decides 09:45  |  a 07/05/08
      37.   Peres is from Mars 09:45  |  Dan Shapira 07/05/08
      38.   No illusion any more. 10:01  |  Vital 07/05/08
      39.   Leftists stupid and naive as usual 10:07  |  maurice 07/05/08
      40.   shameless hypocrisy 10:08  |  www.kibush.co.il 07/05/08
      41.   A hollow laugh is heard around the world 10:12  |  Clickfool 07/05/08
      42.   How could he have been PM, never mind president? 10:12  |  Harvey (Chaim) 07/05/08
      43.   Perez should read Gazan`s version of "Anne Frank" 10:14  |  Lisa 07/05/08
      44.   And why fire Pal. Qassams from Gaza? 10:15  |  Dav 07/05/08
      45.   Hubris unlimited 10:15  |  Elihu 07/05/08
      46.   One Must Question the Pal Goals 10:16  |  FOX 07/05/08
      47.   Warsaw Ghetto Freedom Fighters would have used Qassam Rockets 10:17  |  Adam 07/05/08
      48.   PERES didn`t imagine LOTS OF THINGS! 10:26  |  PADDY 07/05/08
      49.   OT: Bushco`s yearning for a pretext for attacking Iran 10:36  |  Clickfool 07/05/08
      50.   CFOOL"Re " -ARIEL SHARON said so" Where? When 10:39  |  PETER SM 07/05/08
      51.   #33 Click the village Idiot: Terrible quotes by Peres 10:42  |  Maxthe Horoscope 07/05/08
      52.   Your Right Adam, #47 10:45  |  FOX 07/05/08
      53.   CFOOL.Laughter around the world.Really Where has it been reported 10:46  |  PETER SM 07/05/08
      54.   Peres making peace 10:46  |  Voldemar Rifmovich 07/05/08
      55.   PADDY Your imagination is in full swing"rockets into open fields" 10:52  |  PETER SM 07/05/08
      56.   MORE concessions will NOT bring more peace 10:53  |  Lori 07/05/08
      57.   A proposal for Peter SM # 50 10:57  |  Clickfool 07/05/08
      58.   Don`t make same mistake on West Bank 10:57  |  Sam 07/05/08
      59.   peres didn`t imagine 10:58  |  habilp 07/05/08
      60.   You`re getting a bit pathetic, Peter SM # 53 11:01  |  Clickfool 07/05/08
      61.   West Bank and Jordan 11:09  |  Yossi 07/05/08
      62.   #47, Adam, if you were Warsaw Ghetto freedom fighters 11:09  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 07/05/08
      63.   Apparently Peres doesn`t do his homework 11:12  |  ARA 07/05/08
      64.   Israel, it`s time to get out of your (self-chosen) isolation..... 11:14  |  Swiss (Dino) 07/05/08
      65.   JUST like Warsaw Ghetto?1.UN relief agency&World media on site 11:19  |  PETER SM 07/05/08
      66.   IT WAS IRAN ENTERING THE EQUATION 11:28  |  Fortuna Benmayor 07/05/08
      67.   CFOO. If you have the quote present it.My postings threaten you? 11:29  |  PETER SM 07/05/08
      68.   Peres is a domestic Existential Threat to Israel 11:32  |  Joseph.E 07/05/08
      69.