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Secular and Zionist - Interview with Aharon Barak
By Ari Shavit
Tags: Israel, Supreme Court 

It is alleged against you that you are a secular person who promoted secular causes in court and did not show sufficient sensitivity toward the religious beliefs and traditionalist sensibilities of a large proportion of Israel's citizens.

I am a secular person. I do not believe that God exists. In my view the Holocaust is irreconcilable with the existence of God. Like Haim Cohn, I do not think that God created man, but that man created God. At the same time, I consider myself a Jew, and not only because my mother and father were Jews. I am a Jew in the national sense, a secular Jew.

It is clear to me that if we are to live here together, secular with religious, we must compromise. I am ready to compromise. I do not demand my hundred percent. I proposed a compromise on the issue of Bar-Ilan Street [in Jersualem]. I am not very rigid in the matter of drafting yeshiva students. I understand that both the Sabbath and yeshiva study are the most cherished values of the religious public. But I expect that just as I acknowledge what they hold precious, they must acknowledge what I hold precious.
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Regrettably, many of them believe that [according to an old parable] their cart is full and mine is empty, so my cart has to make way for theirs on the bridge. I cannot accept that. My cart is not empty.

I endorse the state's support for religion, for example, as long as it is on the basis of equality. It does not bother me if the public space possesses a certain religious cast. But I insist that in exchange, the religious public recognize my most cherished values: equality, freedom of the individual. A striving for that balance characterized my judgments in all my years on the Supreme Court.

It is alleged against you that you are a post-Zionist, that your rulings in the Kaadan case [which enabled an Arab family to build a home in a Jewish community] and on the Citizenship Law were post-Zionist in character.

To the best of my knowledge, there is not one post-Zionist justice on the Supreme Court. Of myself I can attest that I am a Zionist with all my 248 organs and 365 sinews. And not a Zionist of the Ahad Ha?am school [cultural Zionism]. A Herzlian Zionist. A Zionist who believes in a Jewish nation-state that is intended to solve the Jewish problem. A Zionist who thinks that a binational state would be a disaster. A Zionist who thinks that the Law of Return is not discriminatory, but a just law that provides an answer to the historic outcry of the Jewish people. To pogroms, to suppression, to the Holocaust.

I am a Zionist at the personal level as well. Believe me, I had many opportunities not to reside in this country. The best universities, a salary of millions, even a judgeship. I rejected all those offers without even considering them, because I am a Zionist. I have four children. One of the greatest calamities that could befall me is for a child of mine to emigrate. And they are all here. All of them absorbed their mother's and my Zionism.

But the question is what Zionism is. My lesson from the Holocaust is that Israel has to be the state of the Jewish people but also the state of all its citizens. Israel is a home to which a Jew, as a Jew, is given a special key with which to enter. A golden key, which is not given to others. But once you enter the home, all those who reside in it are equal. Non-Jews, too. That is why the Kaadan judgment is not post-Zionist but Zionist. The principle of equality is obligatory not only because we are a democratic state but also because we are a Jewish state.

I also believe that an agreement can be reached with the Palestinians on most of the issues. An agreement can be reached. Already in 1978, at Camp David, I proposed to [prime minister Menachem] Begin to resolve the conflict in a confederation. A Jewish Israel with an Arab minority as one state, the Palestinians as a second state and Jordan as a third state. Each of the three would be an independent state and a member of the United Nations, but the three together would also be a state. In this way, majority-minority and internal-external relations could be better ordered
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