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Weighing their words with care By Ruta Kupfer Tags: debra winger It's not by chance that at the bilingual school in Jerusalem, where a conversation took place on Wednesday between film actress Debra Winger, who is on a visit to Israel, and writer and journalist Sayed Kashua, language is of central importance. The actress seems to be weighing her words, as if she's hearing them for the first time, absorbing her own words as if she is her own listener. Every word, however routine, suddenly acquires symbolic import, every metaphor a literal quality. A case in point: She wonders, perfectly naturally, whether Kashua has continued on his path. She uses the term "soldiering on" but then, abruptly, is uncertain whether the martial term is appropriate. She then talks about her visit to the Jerusalem International Film Festival two years ago, where she first met and befriended Kashua - "and then the war broke out," she says, adding quickly, "if you can put it that way." Asking him about the Israeli sitcom he wrote, "Arab Labor," she wants to know if it was "groundbreaking," and immediately is sorry, as the expression sounds violent to her. Winger also tries to grasp the imprecation inherent in the program's name, but finally makes do with noting that it doesn't translate outside Israel. All this happens in one conversation of an hour and a half and in one language - English - hinting vividly at how difficult it must be to run a school in the two languages of two nations living together and locked in conflict. Winger, who is known not only as a fine actress ("An Officer and a Gentleman," "Terms of Endearment," among many others), but also for her decision to turn her back on the film industry (captured well in Rosanna Arquette's 2002 documentary "Searching for Debra Winger"), volunteers for a variety of organizations. During her last visit to Israel, in 2006, she promoted charitable organizations that support blind people, as she was partially and temporary blinded herself years ago in a serious road accident. Now she has taken up the cause of Yad Beyad (Hand in Hand), which supports bilingual schools. Advertisement Winger, 53, arranged the meeting with Kashua and this interview to draw public attention to such schools. The above description of her carefully weighed speech should not lead anyone to think that she is hesitant or inhibited when she talks. On the contrary: Winger - vibrant, lovely, dressed with chic nonchalance - is quick on the uptake. She prompts her partner in the conversation, filling the air with talk and ideas while he weighs each word. Yet she also manages to reflect on the meaning and essence of her words even as she utters them. The actress - who can be seen in Jonathan Demme's new film, "Dancing with Shiva," scheduled for release this year - wanted to talk with Kashua because "we have the same attitude to the truth. We identified this in each other immediately," as she puts it, referring to their encounter at the film festival. That may well be the entire list of what they have in common. With his introverted temperament, and undoubtedly because of the foreign language, Kashua replies to her questions slowly and tersely. He leaves his sarcastic jibes at himself and at others for his weekly column in Haaretz Magazine. He is also surprised at the fact that their conversation will become the subject of a newspaper article. At a later stage in the conversation, when she chides him for having been in New York and not calling her, he asks her whether she is sure she would arrange a conversation like this there, which, he says, "could become a long magazine article illustrated with color photos." 'I'm pretty tough' After visiting the school that day, and visiting similar institutions in Sakhnin and Kfar Kara, Winger informs Kashua that she has decided "to dedicate the next bit of my life to these schools." She was impressed by the diversity of the teachers and students, and by their approach. "We do not leave our differences at the door, but bring them in," she was told. "I'm simplifying it. I'm pretty tough, but everyone moved me. Anyway, I've got to gather myself up and get my cynicism up and running, because I'm in Israel now. That's why I wanted to see you," she tells Kashua. She adds that her hair stood on end when she heard the teachers tell jokes about the various religions, although she understands that that is one way to respect differences. "Yes, but from my point of view there is no need to respect the differences between the religions. There is no need to respect religions at all," says Kashua, whose holds his son Emil on his lap throughout the entire conversation. "I am in favor of full integration; I am not interested in identities. From the moment you are born you are supposed to belong to one side, and this can be confusing." He understands Winger's enthusiasm about the school, and he, too, is thrilled to see that his daughter, Na'i, a student there, is friends with "Yuval and Michal," and that the relationships between them are natural and positive. He is concerned, though, that he is confusing his daughter, that one day she will encounter offensive behavior. Therefore, he is encouraging her education at the school, and investing in piano lessons for her. He is a bit worried about a person choosing a language that is not his or her own, "because it is the dominant language." This reminds him of Isaac Bashevis Singer's novel "Shosha," which he read a month ago: "There is a passage there where the Jew goes into the street and encounters a Pole, and is careful not to use words that will give him away as a Jew. The Pole says he has no problem with Jews, only with the fact that 'they are trying to speak our language, go to our theater.' I don't think we are meant to project our culture, and obviously I do not accept people who refuse to let me into their institutions or who object to mixed marriages." Winger: "We all have to deal with extremists." Kashua: "I'm talking about the mainstream." Winger: "Okay, I have to apologize to all my relatives [here] who are going to read this, but it comes from ignorance and lack of exposure. I'm always shocked when I come to Israel to find that I have more exposure to different people than the people who live here." She has not seen Kashua's television program, which for many Jews opened doors into the homes of local Arabs. "From my acquaintance with you and from reading your stuff," she tells Kashua, "you will not bring in your worldview incidentally, but by a side entrance via a tunnel and then drop it from the roof." Winger takes the opportunity to show him her first book, "Undiscovered," which is being published in the U.S. this spring. "It is sort of about all my conflicts. Maybe not as funny as your books, but I try to look at being a celebrity so young and trying to have a normal life. It also has to do with my being Jewish, and how I had to walk away from that and kind of come back, finding the way back slowly. You know how it is, you're free to feel and believe whatever you want, and then you have children and have to begin thinking again." Like thinking about who should be the next president of the United States. "There is so much happening now with Barack Obama, I mean the racism is flying both ways, it's pretty incredible," Winger observes. Who will she vote for, Kashua wants to know. Probably not for John McCain, who she notes described Purim this week as "the Jewish Halloween." But she doesn't want to say who she will vote for. "I'm actually one of those people who decides as things go by. The election is out of control, but I am hoping - and as we've established here I'm a bit too hopeful for my own good." Kashua says he likes the new governor of New York, who admits to a new vice in his past every day: "He gives me hope that one day I will also be able to be governor." "You just hate knee-jerk liberals," Winger says on another occasion. "I also hate that part in me. I want to think things through, but sometimes after thinking about it I arrive at the same conclusion as the knee-jerk reaction. Still, I guess it counts for something that I thought it over." She suggests to Kashua that he write her into the second season of his series - as a knee-jerk liberal. She is not the only one with such reactions. Two years ago she got into a tiff with a good friend, who sent her texts containing the epithet "Zionist entity" instead of "Israel." "I apologize here to everyone who is not capable of using the word 'Israel,'" she comments dryly, but says she prefers that it be used. Kashua: "You know, it is a philosophical question whether, if you ignore something, it still continues to exist." "My answer is no," she says, kicking the ball of sarcasm back into Kashua's court. "I was once on a camping trip and I stuck my head out of the tent and just then a tree fell. Not many people get to see a sight like that, and I want to solve this riddle for many people: A tree that falls in the forest makes a whole lot of noise." Bookmark to del.icio.us   Devil's weed New campaign equates smoking pot with terrorism. Bad company A BBC poll says Israel world's most hated country after Iran.

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