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Last update - 10:21 08/06/2007
Why Israel does not engage with the Saudi initiative
By Carlo Strenger

One of the most puzzling aspects of Israeli policy over the last five years is that neither the Sharon nor the Olmert governments have given the Saudi peace initiative any serious consideration. For most of its existence, Israel could only dream of an offer that explicitly includes peace, recognition of Israel's right to exist and normalization of its relationship with the Arab world. Why, then, has Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered nothing but lip service to the Saudi initiative, and why did former prime minister Ariel Sharon never even indicate that he took it seriously at all?

There are good reasons to believe that the Saudi initiative, ratified by the Arab League, stems from solid and tangible interests on the Arab side. The Saudis and other regimes in the area are afraid that the Middle East could disintegrate into chaotic disarray if the tide of sectarianism and the surge of Islamist movements are not hemmed in. They believe that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the most powerful destabilizing factors in the area, and they have good reasons to think that it fuels Islamic extremism. The Arab world has come to a point where it is joining the international legitimizing of Israel provided by the 1947 UN resolution that endorsed the partition plan, because it no longer believes that it is in its interest to reject Israel's existence.

Why, then, does Israel not engage with the Saudi peace initiative? This initiative, like any Arab proposal that will ever come up, demands a "just solution of the refugee problem." The deep-seated fear in Israel is that the Arab insistence on a solution for the Palestinian refugee problem is ultimately a ploy to wipe Israel as a Jewish state off the map, not through military means, but through demographic means, by flooding Israel with millions of Palestinians.

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But there are models for the resolution of the problem. In private conversations, influential Palestinians often say that for them, an acceptance of the Palestinian right of return is far more about Israel accepting moral responsibility for the Nakba (literally, "catastrophe," the Palestinian term for Israel's establishment and the subsequent refugee crisis) than it is about the physical return of Palestinians to their homes within the 1967 borders, and the Beilin-Abu Mazen agreement of 1995 has given semi-official expression to this view.

Here, I believe, resides the deepest reason for Israel's reluctance to actively engage with the Saudi initiative. Israeli public discourse and national consciousness have never come to terms with the idea, accepted by historians of all venues today, that Israel actively drove 750,000 Palestinians from their homes in 1947/8 and hence has at least partial responsibility for the Palestinian Nakba.

This has not happened to this very day because this idea is seen as undermining the foundation of the Zionist enterprise and the legitimacy of Israel's existence. It is as if we were locked into an insoluble dilemma: Either we deny responsibility for the Nakba, or we need to accept that we have no right to be here.

This is the source of the deep fear that prevents Israel from meeting the Arab world face to face and saying "we are here, and we believe that you accept our existence." Since Israel has not come to terms with its part in the historical responsibility for the Palestinian Nakba, it cannot truly believe that Arabs could accept our presence in the Middle East. We are locked into a vacillation between self-images of either all-good or all-bad, and hence continue the occupation of the territories, with all the horrors it includes, because the idea of Israel being guilty of anything is still equated with the denial of our right to be here.

The only way out of this deadlock is to raise the question of how Israel can live with its responsibility for the Nakba into public discourse. The dilemma of "either we are morally impeccable, or we have no right to be here" needs to be replaced with a narrative that accepts that Israel's moral, historical and political reality is as complex and multilayered as that of most nations.

In the best of all possible worlds, an Israeli statesman (a rare commodity in an age of mere politicians) would arise and tell the Palestinians: "Israel came into existence in tragic circumstances that inflicted great suffering and injustice on your people. We accept responsibility for our part in this tragedy, even though we cannot fully rectify it. Let us sit together and see how we can end the vicious cycle of violence and suffering and live side by side."

This is not likely to happen in the immediate future. A Jewish Israeli politician who would say such a thing would become unelectable. Hence it is up to the citizenry to bring this issue into the public consciousness. Otherwise, Israeli policies will continue to be devoid of any creativity and political horizon, and we will miss historic opportunities that may not return.

The author is a professor of psychology at Tel Aviv University.

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  1.   RABIN SAID THE SIMILAR THING 10:29  |  indrajaya 08/06/07
  2.   The Arabs are knocking timidly on the peace door 10:40  |  Swiss (Dino) 08/06/07
  3.   Carlo Strenger, you should show more respect for the Arabs by 10:43  |  Uzi 08/06/07
  4.   Israel is becoming a Talmudic fascism 11:12  |  Anti-Zionist 08/06/07
  5.   There is Another Option 11:18  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  6.   TODAYS COMIC COLUMN , MORE OF THE BLAME GAME 11:19  |  paul harris 08/06/07
  7.   A WINNER TAKES ALL SYNDROME 11:26  |  indrajaya 08/06/07
  8.   Arabs must accept responsibility for rejecting 47 resolution 11:52  |  Yosef 08/06/07
  9.   Living with our imperfections 11:54  |  Tzfonit 08/06/07
  10.   Wars for lines on maps 11:55  |  Citizen of the world 08/06/07
  11.   Why is it allways... 12:01  |  Olof 08/06/07
  12.   It`s the Arabs that refuse 12:03  |  Jack 08/06/07
  13.   Double talk? 12:04  |  NW 08/06/07
  14.   have the left gone WACKO in israel!!!!! 12:11  |  Ben Uziel 08/06/07
  15.   Every Single Arab ... 12:13  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  16.   A WINNER TAKES ALL SYNDROME 12:17  |  NW 08/06/07
  17.   Simple Truths 12:39  |  Ronnie Wolman 08/06/07
  18.   The Naqba was caused by Arabs 12:44  |  Jonathan S 08/06/07
  19.   A raw nerve is touched - our mythology challenged 12:53  |  thru-other-eyes 08/06/07
  20.   To Mr Carlo Strenger 13:15  |  Monica Lewis 08/06/07
  21.   Tzfonit, there are no "Rights", only facts 13:17  |  Rowan Berkeley 08/06/07
  22.   Israel must never lie to bring peace about 13:21  |  Steven 08/06/07
  23.   Anti-Zionist (4) is not an-anti-zionist, he is an anti-semite 13:25  |  Steven 08/06/07
  24.   Carlo Strenger & his nakba ! 13:28  |  Shlomo M 08/06/07
  25.   ISRAEL FACES 3 REMEDIES, CARLO`S SUGGESTION IS NOT ONE OF THEM ! 13:33  |  MG 08/06/07
  26.   ISRAEL`S ROLE IS BEING ON THE RECEIVING END OF A MULTIARAB ATTACK 13:33  |  Ben 08/06/07
  27.   This is nonsense 13:35  |  Nechama 08/06/07
  28.   A good article,and (19)thro`others eyes, it started even earlier 13:35  |  lakshmi 08/06/07
  29.   Olof, You`re so right.. 13:44  |  Boozaglow 08/06/07
  30.   Naqba 13:45  |  Israel Zwick 08/06/07
  31.   Naqba - result of 1936-1939 (1) 13:54  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  32.   To EveryOne 13:54  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  33.   Naqba - result of 1936-1939 (2) 13:55  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  34.   Naqba - result of 1936-1939 (3) 13:56  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  35.   Naqba - result of 1936-1939 (4) 13:57  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  36.   Naqba - result of 1936-1939 (5) 13:57  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  37.   Steven the Problem Between Semite/Zionist 13:58  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  38.   That`s Not What Najadi Said Shlomo 14:04  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  39.   That`s a Good Start Nechama 14:07  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  40.   lakshmi, Israel can keep what they bought 14:11  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  41.   Boozaglow, the Reason the Mizrahim ... 14:15  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  42.   an perceptive article 14:15  |  jana 08/06/07
  43.   No Statement needed on Israel`s legitimacy and right to exist 14:19  |  Dennis M Starkman 08/06/07
  44.   Naqba Shlomo 14:22  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  45.   SAUDI "PEACE" PLAN, DE-ORWELLIZED 14:24  |  MG 08/06/07
  46.   A test of Palestinian national identity and inner strength 14:25  |  Dennis M Starkman 08/06/07
  47.   The logic of the illogical 14:38  |  thru-other-eyes 08/06/07
  48.   Bernie you really speak too much and know too little. 14:47  |  Steven 08/06/07
  49.   Who benefits from delaying peace? 14:48  |  Natallie Durson 08/06/07
  50.   Strenger` thesis: Israel is guilty of winning Milhemet Atzmaut! 14:54  |  Dudu 08/06/07
  51.   Bernie, 14:55  |  Boozaglow 08/06/07
  52.   To Bernie 14:58  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  53.   The anti-semite Natallie Durson has spoken 14:59  |  Steven 08/06/07
  54.   to natallie durston - read very carefully 15:01  |  adam 08/06/07
  55.   More to Natallie Durson 15:03  |  Steven 08/06/07
  56.   Shlomo from TA Naqba Posts 15:06  |  Avi Yerushalmi 08/06/07
  57.   natallie durson is a supplicant 15:07  |  harzion 08/06/07
  58.   Bernie and his lies 15:11  |  Steven 08/06/07
  59.   lakshmi you waste your time 15:15  |  amitabh bachchan 08/06/07
  60.   Get Out! - Reverse Aliyah - Godd Ridance 15:16  |  M. Fox 08/06/07
  61.   lakshmi you have not answered the question 15:20  |  raj babbar 08/06/07
  62.   We All Have Our Crosses to Bear 15:24  |  Jane 08/06/07
  63.   to nr 4# 15:27  |  Sami 08/06/07
  64.   Anti-semite 15:29  |  John 08/06/07
  65.   Wars are wars 15:29  |  I. Barr 08/06/07
  66.   Fallacious argument 15:37  |  Brod 08/06/07
  67.   In Natallie`s defense 15:40  |  thru-other-eyes 08/06/07
  68.   Jewish refugees from Arab lands 15:45  |  Jeremy Woolf 08/06/07
  69.   Maybe cause the Saudi initiative is a recipe for Israel`s demise 15:47  |  Chaim 08/06/07
  70.   #8 Well, Gosh, Yosef 15:49  |  Johnboy 08/06/07
  71.   Jews from Arab Countries also Refugees 15:50  |  Semsem 08/06/07
  72.   1 million Jewish Refugees from Arab lands 15:54  |  Liliane 08/06/07
  73.   40Bernie,check (47) the post explains my own point very well,all 15:55  |  lakshmi 08/06/07
  74.   The Attack by 5 Arab Armies Had Nothing to Do With It?! 15:59  |  Ben 08/06/07
  75.   Jonathan S, Yusof, Olaf, etc 16:00  |  Angela 08/06/07
  76.   Bernie, clarification needed 16:02  |  Angela 08/06/07
  77.   Did the US apologize for the Indians, the Aussies for the Abos? 16:03  |  P.M. Sorensen 08/06/07
  78.   #49 Natallie - you go girl! 16:04  |  Johnboy 08/06/07
  79.   Bernie, you know much Mizrahi history? 16:29  |  Olof 08/06/07
  80.   Steven the Moroccan Jews 16:31  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  81.   Allies should accept responsibility for the German Naqba too? 16:31  |  Absolute Sweden 08/06/07
  82.   gee whiz johnboy 16:34  |  coz 08/06/07
  83.   Boozaglow, I am Not an Expert 16:38  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  84.   Swiss #2 16:38  |  Polybios 08/06/07
  85.   Israel and Saudi Initive 16:40  |  Alawi Alkhabbaz 08/06/07
  86.   There was no catastrophe 16:40  |  Steven A. 08/06/07
  87.   Written By A True Psychology Professor (part 1) 16:42  |  Jeff Northridge 08/06/07
  88.   Not confusing in context 16:44  |  Inigo Montoya 08/06/07
  89.   post 39 Lebanon starting wars 16:46  |  Inigo Montoya 08/06/07
  90.   Saudi "fears," as set out in this article 16:58  |  Polybios 08/06/07
  91.   Anyone else notice . . . 16:58  |  Fred Michaelsberg 08/06/07
  92.   Negotiations 101 17:01  |  Goldie 08/06/07
  93.   Tzfonit?Bracha #9 17:04  |  DRORA 08/06/07
  94.   You`ve verified the author`s point..... 17:05  |  jake 08/06/07
  95.   # 44 Naqba 17:10  |  Avrohom Yerushalmi 08/06/07
  96.   # 44 Naqba 17:10  |  Avrohom Yerushalmi 08/06/07
  97.   Written By A True Psychology Professor (part 2) 17:12  |  Jeff Northridge 08/06/07
  98.   Hip deep in excrement 17:14  |  Yair ben Avraham 08/06/07
  99.   Silly Jews 17:16  |  Gene 08/06/07
  100.   A good, and rather well-known idea 17:18  |  Tosefta 08/06/07
  101.   ISRAEL MUST WITHDRAW TO ITS 1947 BORDERS 17:22  |  Muhammud al-Swain 08/06/07
  102.   Swiss (Dino) - What I am going to say is not politically correct, 17:24  |  Zvulun 08/06/07
  103.   #21 A truly disgusting statement, what a Joke! 17:25  |  L Gaines 08/06/07
  104.   #60 THEY ADVERTISE IN THE "NUTTERS" WEEKLY DUDU 17:28  |  paul harris 08/06/07
  105.   To Bernie(not an apologist) and to other apologists,it might be 17:28  |  lakshmi 08/06/07
  106.   Bennie - Despite your writing with what you think is much 17:30  |  Zvulun 08/06/07
  107.   #60 TULIPS FROM AMSTERDAM BUT NO FACTS OR FIGURES 17:31  |  paul harris 08/06/07
  108.   Nak ba 17:34  |  Ralph 08/06/07
  109.   Logically and Morally Valid Idea 17:36  |  Brian Freund 08/06/07
  110.   To Mr paul harris 17:38  |  Brian Freund 08/06/07
  111.   Fair is Fair 17:46  |  utagawa 08/06/07
  112.   Strenger is another "post Zionist" liar 17:51  |  David Teich 08/06/07
  113.   To steven and harzion: Natallie Durson is right 18:00  |  Mark B. 08/06/07
  114.   thru-other-eyes = vile revisionist 18:08  |  Steven 08/06/07
  115.   Strenger has been reading historical fiction 18:08  |  The Truth 08/06/07
  116.   The UNSCOP should apologize to the Palestinians 18:29  |  Swiss (Dino) 08/06/07
  117.   FRUEND IS NO FRIEND AND SAYS I HAVE NO IMAGINATION 18:31  |  paul harris 08/06/07
  118.   To Tosefta 18:33  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  119.   66Polybios,re: atrocities there was plenty to go around from the 18:44  |  lakshmi 08/06/07
  120.   Not Unlike the US 18:47  |  Jim Hurt 08/06/07
  121.   Muhammud al-Swain # 74 What Are You Talking About? 18:48  |  Jeff Northridge 08/06/07
  122.   Response to muhamed Alzwein 18:49  |  Dudu 08/06/07
  123.   Al-Swain #77 18:49  |  Polybios 08/06/07
  124.   Balancing the scales 18:50  |  John 08/06/07
  125.   Some facts (Lakshmi #86) 18:55  |  Tosefta 08/06/07
  126.   Anti Zionist 18:57  |  Tobin 08/06/07
  127.   its ok now 18:57  |  , 08/06/07
  128.   professor or a depressed and self centered sicki 19:01  |  misha 08/06/07
  129.   No Mark B, it`s you who are wrong 19:03  |  Polybios 08/06/07
  130.   # 93 Zvulun 19:10  |  Swiss (Dino) 08/06/07
  131.   Bernie, in post #38 you`re being VERY naive 19:12  |  Polybios 08/06/07
  132.   No. 23 Steven 19:12  |  Mitch Cohen 08/06/07
  133.   Dear Bernie, Zionism is the foundation of Judaism 19:14  |  Alicia 08/06/07
  134.   Carlo Strenger 19:15  |  Solly M 08/06/07
  135.   lakshmi 19:19  |  Polybios 08/06/07
  136.   # 75 Polybios 19:23  |  Swiss (Dino) 08/06/07
  137.   To Swiss (Dino) 19:28  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 08/06/07
  138.   If Jews hold Germany and Germans responsible for the Holocaust! 19:31  |  El-Birawi 08/06/07
  139.   #88 Drora/Gabe 19:32  |  Boycott 08/06/07
  140.   Angela 19:35  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  141.   Natalie and Polybios 19:40  |  Angela 08/06/07
  142.   Olof, Israel Told the South Lebanese to Leave 19:41  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  143.   Tosefta # 87 Who`s To Blame? 19:44  |  Jeff Northridge 08/06/07
  144.   Shlomo the believer #113 19:44  |  Tosefta 08/06/07
  145.   Utagawa 20:00  |  Angela 08/06/07
  146.   Yes, there was a Naqba 20:04  |  Yakov 08/06/07
  147.   To my `friends` here and your `facts` and `knowledge` 20:14  |  thru-other-eyes 08/06/07
  148.   # 137 Shlomo from Tel Aviv 20:17  |  Swiss (Dino) 08/06/07
  149.   Inigo 20:18  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  150.   A psycho Prof @ TA Univ . blind to Arabs con of Nakba 20:20  |  Joseph E . 08/06/07
  151.   Thank you Paul H. 20:22  |  Brian Freund 08/06/07
  152.   Responce to el-Birawi 20:24  |  Gene 08/06/07
  153.   Jews would rather die than...... 20:24  |  John Mackie 08/06/07
  154.   Serious Peace Initiative 20:24  |  Ron 08/06/07
  155.   Your so right! Arabs know no peace. 20:27  |  Garry 08/06/07
  156.   Typical Jewish Academic BS 20:28  |  Tod Zuckerman 08/06/07
  157.   The world call us racist , fascist , appartheid , occupier 20:30  |  Joseph E . 08/06/07
  158.   Holy Bible Avrohom? 20:30  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  159.   Dhimini Liberals will destroy the West 20:30  |  Kerry 08/06/07
  160.   Urgent Message For Steven 20:31  |  Your Psychoanalyst 08/06/07
  161.   Dudu, the Pre 6th Century Arab Borders 20:37  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  162.   Tosefta, regarding Ben Gurion 20:40  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  163.   Tosefta # 100 The UN 20:46  |  Jeff Northridge 08/06/07
  164.   Historians of which venues? 20:49  |  Gil 08/06/07
  165.   PolyBios, It is Hard For me to UnderStand 20:50  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  166.   Boycott #139 20:53  |  GABE 1 08/06/07
  167.   One More Thing PolyBios 20:55  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  168.   Saudi Plan: Israel`s Fault For Living, Die In Exchange for Peace 20:55  |  Efox 08/06/07
  169.   Israel should demand that the Arabs 20:57  |  Joseph 08/06/07
  170.   YOSEF #8, NOT THE ARABS, BUT THE UN 20:58  |  Elias Khoury 08/06/07
  171.   re: Bernie 20:58  |  Efox 08/06/07
  172.   Destroying Israel With No Loss of Life Polybios 21:00  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  173.   # 139 El-Birawa - part 1 21:02  |  Alicia 08/06/07
  174.   re: El-Birawi 21:04  |  Efox 08/06/07
  175.   Alicia 21:07  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  176.   #18 jonathan s. not the only nazi sympathizers 21:10  |  devin 08/06/07
  177.   Shlomo 21:10  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  178.   # 139 El-Birawa - part 2 21:11  |  Alicia 08/06/07
  179.   Jeff, Everyone Agrees With That 21:16  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  180.   Psychology not Politics 21:18  |  Not a Dhimmi no more 08/06/07
  181.   Muhammed al-swain -- 101 21:31  |  zionizt forever 08/06/07
  182.   135Polybios, there are enough stories of atrocities to go around, 21:36  |  lakshmi 08/06/07
  183.   It must be very hard for zionists 22:04  |  John 08/06/07
  184.   typical left wing article that blames it all on Israel 22:05  |  zionizt forever 08/06/07
  185.   A MAD, MAD ESTABLISHMENT 22:09  |  Michel Slonimski 08/06/07
  186.   Tzfonit, Living with imperfections 22:23  |  Maki 08/06/07
  187.   THANKS MG FOR YOUR POSTING 22:29  |  Leon 08/06/07
  188.   # 156 Bernie 22:34  |  Alicia 08/06/07
  189.   Israel choice 22:46  |  abdulla 08/06/07
  190.   #4 22:49  |  Moshe 08/06/07
  191.   Prof. Strenger misses key point 22:53  |  dfs 08/06/07
  192.   Facts and Fiction, I (Jeff Northridge #143) 23:11  |  Tosefta 08/06/07
  193.   Facts and Fiction, II (Jeff Northridge #143) 23:12  |  Tosefta 08/06/07
  194.   Elias Khoury # 155 You Got Your Break 23:12  |  Jeff Northridge 08/06/07
  195.   Alicia, It was OK last summer 23:15  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  196.   Maki, #186 Two suggestions 23:16  |  Tzfonit 08/06/07
  197.   What is This Jewish And Arab State Thing 23:17  |  Bernie 08/06/07
  198.   Ben Gurion was no transferrist (Bernie #162) 23:22  |  Tosefta 08/06/07
  199.   Strenger makes perfect sense 23:23  |  Ben Alofs 08/06/07
  200.   The text says more 23:31  |  Richard 08/06/07
  201.   A little context please? 23:32  |  Dyinglikeflies 08/06/07
  202.   Legality and the legally incompetent 23:37  |  Tosefta 08/06/07
  203.   182? 23:38  |  Inigo Montoya 08/06/07
  204.   182? 23:39  |  Inigo Montoya 08/06/07
  205.   # 95 Avrohom Yerushalmi. SHORT AND SWEET.. IT IS NOT THEIR... 23:42  |  KATH` 08/06/07
  206.   What responsibility?: No invasion in 48 by arabs, no refugees 23:48  |  David 08/06/07
  207.   Mohammed al Swain-the recurring Arab threat 23:59  |  Sam 08/06/07
  208.   Bernie # 179 That`s Not The Way The Arabs See It 00:13  |  Jeff Northridge 09/06/07
  209.   Rabin never backed up this lie 00:13  |  Paul Freedman 09/06/07
  210.   # 190 BERNIE: Israel did defeat Hezbollah in Leb 00:18  |  Alicia 09/06/07
  211.   #4: anti-Zionist: reality turned on its head 00:19  |  Paul Freedman 09/06/07
  212.   Lakshmi #73 00:48  |  Simba 09/06/07
  213.   Naqba 00:50  |  Michaelm 09/06/07
  214.   Elias, misleading figures 01:02  |  Not a Dhimmi no more 09/06/07
  215.   Tosefta # 187 & 188 We Might As Well Call It Even Then 01:05  |  Jeff Northridge 09/06/07
  216.   So, professor Carlos Strenger thinks Israel should accept 01:08  |  Jak 09/06/07
  217.   Assurances in private conversations? 01:16  |  B 09/06/07
  218.   Clarification on this Jewish and Arab state thing 01:19  |  Inigo Montoya 09/06/07
  219.   To Swiss (Dino) 01:20  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 09/06/07
  220.   To Tosefta 01:28  |  Shlomo from Tel Aviv 09/06/07
  221.   tosefta why this portnoy like masturbation? 01:37  |  exbengurion 09/06/07
  222.   lakshmi knows indian and pak intelligence 01:40  |  western ghats 09/06/07
  223.   Lakshmi. 01:47  |  Zebulonguy 09/06/07
  224.   tosefta "understand the other side`s point of view" 01:49  |  avrum burg 09/06/07
  225.   Israeli retreat is the main "roadblock to peace" 02:12  |  Chaim 09/06/07
  226.   Arab refugees 02:22  |  Moshe(1) 09/06/07
  227.   Jeff Northridge #189 02:25  |  Elias Khoury 09/06/07
  228.   Jeff Northride #189 P.S. 02:27  |  Elias Khoury 09/06/07
  229.   Re: There is another option 02:30  |  Charles 09/06/07
  230.   Bernie says "Zionism promotes antisemitism" 02:38  |  sg 09/06/07
  231.   Bernie: Israel can keep what they bought 02:45  |  sg 09/06/07
  232.   #87 Northridge - driven out and blocked from return is the same 02:49  |  Pablo B 09/06/07
  233.   Naqba Bernie 02:50  |  sg 09/06/07
  234.   Bernie certainly is NOT an expert 03:04  |  sg 09/06/07
  235.   The Pal cause wasn`t about building a state but destroying Israel 03:05  |  Fortuna Benmayor 09/06/07
  236.   Angela,EXACTLY 03:19  |  John 09/06/07
  237.   This is Why we Say:"Israel Doesn`t want Peace!" 03:21  |  Sharif Hafez 09/06/07
  238.   # 201 Avrohom Yesrushalmi. AND MU CONTRIBUTION. 03:21  |  KATH` 09/06/07
  239.   # 95 Avrohom Yesrushalmi.AND MY ADDENDUM 03:24  |  KATH` 09/06/07
  240.   lakshmi and this from gujarat 03:24  |  yamuna 09/06/07
  241.   Carlo, a naqba nutcase.... 03:25  |  Webster 09/06/07
  242.   Johnboy and Natallie 03:29  |  John 09/06/07
  243.   Pharaoh of False Facts (Jeff Northridge #211) 03:32  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  244.   Post #198 (posted 23:37) meant for Jeff Northridge 03:35  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  245.   El-Birawi - for pete`s sake. 03:37  |  sg 09/06/07
  246.   #199, Tosefta 03:43  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 09/06/07
  247.   Bernie and the Expansionist State 03:43  |  sg 09/06/07
  248.   Angela from Switzerland 03:46  |  sg 09/06/07
  249.   Bernie: Why the state has to be Jewish 03:53  |  sg 09/06/07
  250.   cognitive dissonance 03:54  |  ron 09/06/07
  251.   Joseph E. 03:57  |  John 09/06/07
  252.   #223 04:00  |  Moshe 09/06/07
  253.   To Shlomo 218 04:37  |  Richard 09/06/07
  254.   Tosefta # 202 05:06  |  Gina 09/06/07
  255.   in a great irony Lakshmi from India has taken 05:07  |  a Jew 09/06/07
  256.   Elias Khoury 05:11  |  Gina 09/06/07
  257.   #246 Bird from Outerspace vs. Earthly logic 05:11  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  258.   Bernie 05:27  |  Gina 09/06/07
  259.   Bernie 05:34  |  Gina 09/06/07
  260.   Elias Khoury # 227 No Lie 05:47  |  Jeff Northridge 09/06/07
  261.   Bernie 05:56  |  Gina 09/06/07
  262.   Bernie 05:58  |  Gina 09/06/07
  263.   Bernie 06:01  |  Gina 09/06/07
  264.   bernie...you have the knowledge of the Bible 06:28  |  maria 09/06/07
  265.   Pablo B # 232 It Most Certainly Does Matter 06:55  |  Jeff Northridge 09/06/07
  266.   ISRAELI DR. PHIL PSYCH OUTS PALIESTINIANS 06:59  |  tbart 09/06/07
  267.   re: ISRAEL MUST WITHDRAW TO ITS 1947 BORDERS 07:30  |  Steven 09/06/07
  268.   Tosefta # 257 So What? 07:52  |  Jeff Northridge 09/06/07
  269.   Why? Because a just peace costs too much 07:54  |  John 09/06/07
  270.   As long as there is an Israel 07:58  |  Bill 09/06/07
  271.   injustice never stand 08:02  |  saudi 09/06/07
  272.   #268, Jeff Northridge 08:26  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 09/06/07
  273.   Alicia Israel Killed Lots of Lebanese 08:50  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  274.   Carlos Strenger: you are right 08:57  |  hipolito dormal 09/06/07
  275.   Who is Paying this Guy? 09:03  |  Joe Levy 09/06/07
  276.   Israel Started as a Lie, sg 09:03  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  277.   What books sg, the torah and the talmud? 09:07  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  278.   why israel should be different? 09:08  |  arab 09/06/07
  279.   ANti-zionist=antisemitic . 10:48  |  singer 09/06/07
  280.   #93 Drora??? sounds very much like........... 11:46  |  Ari ben Yisrael 09/06/07
  281.   #139 Boycot I see you too spotted that #93 Bracha 12:01  |  Ari ben Yisrael 09/06/07
  282.   Maria, regarding the Tora/Bible/Koran 12:15  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  283.   Maria, Those Jews did Not Believe 12:18  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  284.   Did you read my Post Gina? 12:22  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  285.   Bill, Didn`t You Say Once 12:25  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  286.   Bernie 13:02  |  Gina 09/06/07
  287.   Bernie # 73 -- The Lebanese are responsible 13:06  |  Gina 09/06/07
  288.   Bernie # 283 - there are no prayers to the God of Abraham 13:09  |  Gina 09/06/07
  289.   El-Birawi -- you forgot 13:15  |  Gina 09/06/07
  290.   Zionism has ruined Judaism and its arguement 13:25  |  Nick W 09/06/07
  291.   Rice`s reading list 13:31  |  Fahmi Natour 09/06/07
  292.   sg - Jewish suffering in Arab lands 14:39  |  Angela 09/06/07
  293.   Yes, yes, but dont overestimate the sectarian things 15:22  |  Fritz 09/06/07
  294.   3 216 Professor Carlo 15:41  |  Claire G 09/06/07
  295.   To Bernie 15:42  |  Lynn 09/06/07
  296.   Gina It is not the US Christians 15:45  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  297.   # 290 Zionism is in fact Judaism 15:53  |  Mordechai B 09/06/07
  298.   lakshmi 15:53  |  Lynn 09/06/07
  299.   The Burning Bush 15:54  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  300.   # 111 Fair is fair 16:19  |  Lynn 09/06/07
  301.   A truism (Gina #254) 16:20  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  302.   Swiss 16:21  |  Lynn 09/06/07
  303.   Reading comprehension, I (Jeff Northridge #268) 16:49  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  304.   Reading comprehension, II (Jeff Northridge #268) 16:50  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  305.   Lynn? What are you Responding to? 16:52  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  306.   Real cause for the Nakba 17:04  |  Victor Kava 09/06/07
  307.   Legitimacy of Israel`s existence 17:07  |  Jacob Polak 09/06/07
  308.   RIGHT ON MAN 17:10  |  Sam Weedon 09/06/07
  309.   # 302 Lynn 17:17  |  Swiss (Dino) 09/06/07
  310.   when the arabs/pal accept, apologize stealing our land i will 17:37  |  ralph 09/06/07
  311.   Prof Carlo Strenger 17:54  |  Sassie S 09/06/07
  312.   Private statements by a few are not policy 18:23  |  Jonathan 09/06/07
  313.   Bernie # 283 & 299 Baal = Bull 18:38  |  Jeff Northridge 09/06/07
  314.   # 251 John 19:02  |  Joseph E . Post 2 09/06/07
  315.   jewish refugees 19:09  |  Steve 09/06/07
  316.   re: a Jew On India and Israel 19:22  |  Efox 09/06/07
  317.   Ralph How About When Americans Get 19:24  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  318.   Tosefta # 303 & 304 Thank God 19:27  |  Jeff Northridge 09/06/07
  319.   Sassy, you use OWN PEOPLE quite liberally 19:30  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  320.   re: Nick W A Hell of a Hypothetical 19:31  |  Efox 09/06/07
  321.   To Bernie 19:32  |  Bruce 09/06/07
  322.   Bernie -- I`m a US Christian 19:42  |  Gina 09/06/07
  323.   Tosefta 19:48  |  Gina 09/06/07
  324.   Carlo Strenger 19:50  |  David 09/06/07
  325.   The Saudi initiative does seek an end to Israel 20:01  |  Jason 09/06/07
  326.   #264 Bernie "you don`t argue with God" and Maria 20:02  |  tad 09/06/07
  327.   # 290 Nick W. ZIONISM HAS RUINED JUDAISM............... 20:09  |  Kath` 09/06/07
  328.   # 290 Nick W. A REPLY..Judaism etc,etc.(THIRD TRY) 20:13  |  Kath` 09/06/07
  329.   The Saudi Peace Plan 20:48  |  Charles 09/06/07
  330.   Israel should not accept the Saudi plan 20:52  |  KUTW 09/06/07
  331.   Israel accepting moral responsibility 20:54  |  heinz 09/06/07
  332.   Fueling Islamic extremism 21:04  |  KUTW 09/06/07
  333.   Fool article 21:11  |  paulo2005 09/06/07
  334.   Carlo Strenger does not know his history 21:11  |  CommonSense 09/06/07
  335.   Carlo Stenger the historian 21:17  |  CommonSense 09/06/07
  336.   Bernie # 299 - you speak nonsense 21:19  |  Gina 09/06/07
  337.   To Israelis and friends of Israel 21:28  |  Joseph 09/06/07
  338.   Moral responsibility for the Nakba is on the Arabs 21:32  |  KUTW 09/06/07
  339.   # 325 Jason.The Saudi initiative only means... 21:38  |  Kath` 09/06/07
  340.   Hilarious 21:41  |  CHGODMK 09/06/07
  341.   Good news (Gina #323) 21:41  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  342.   Jeff Slapstick (#265 re Pablo) 21:43  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  343.   Wrong wrong wrong, did I say wrong enough? 21:53  |  Nuke`m Nick 09/06/07
  344.   Bruce what pograms are the Palestinians 21:55  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  345.   Gina So Am I 21:57  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  346.   What Is It With the Israeli Intellectuals? 22:07  |  massaraksh 09/06/07
  347.   #327 Kath? 22:08  |  Boycott 09/06/07
  348.   KUTW #332: I Agree 22:10  |  CHGODMK 09/06/07
  349.   Israel did not drove 750,000 pals out 22:18  |  KUTW 09/06/07
  350.   #317 wrong. israel unlike egypt pays back much of its loans 22:19  |  ralph 09/06/07
  351.   Keep Going Jeff ... Explain the Fluke Please 22:22  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  352.   #317 islamic law says once conquored always islamic give back 22:23  |  ralph 09/06/07
  353.   "Israel came into existence in tragic circumstances? 22:38  |  KUTW 09/06/07
  354.   That`s a real funny name you got, nick 22:39  |  newageblues 09/06/07
  355.   Gina, You Only Know One Religion 22:39  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  356.   Gina Altering Text 22:49  |  Bernie 09/06/07
  357.   Angela re Jews in Arab Lands 22:50  |  sg 09/06/07
  358.   Bernie, Israel did NOT start as a lie! 22:55  |  sg 09/06/07
  359.   Where the hell is Danite?!?! 22:56  |  CHGODMK 09/06/07
  360.   To KUTW - people driven out 23:02  |  sg 09/06/07
  361.   Which Nakba 23:03  |  LessThanExpert 09/06/07
  362.   BERNIE CLOCKS ONLY CLOCKWISE 23:05  |  paul harris 09/06/07
  363.   Reconciliation 23:12  |  sg 09/06/07
  364.   re: ralph 23:13  |  Efox 09/06/07
  365.   Shlomo #31//36, 4 out of 5 isn`t too bad 23:15  |  newageblues 09/06/07
  366.   Bernie # 345 - as an American you have one vote 23:19  |  Gina 09/06/07
  367.   Bernie # 355 23:26  |  Gina 09/06/07
  368.   Which book did you read? (Bernie #349, 299 re Gina) 23:26  |  Tosefta 09/06/07
  369.   Accepting rsponsibility 23:32  |  Neil 09/06/07
  370.   sg ...about those books 23:51  |  Angela 09/06/07
  371.   Saudi Intitiative goes one step further 00:12  |  William 10/06/07
  372.   Heinz #331 - alot of State has constitutions 00:21  |  William 10/06/07
  373.   # 241 Carlo 00:56  |  Snowman P 10/06/07
  374.   360. sg: people driven out 00:59  |  KUTW 10/06/07
  375.   Carlo Strenger # 334 01:06  |  Gina L 10/06/07
  376.   360. sg: people driven out (more) 01:11  |  KUTW 10/06/07
  377.   saudi initiative. 01:21  |  moishe 10/06/07
  378.   #358, CHGODMK 01:26  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 10/06/07
  379.   ari ben israel #280 01:28  |  GABE1 10/06/07
  380.   Israel wasnt responsible & words dont bring peace. 01:29  |  zionist forever 10/06/07
  381.   Tosefta # 342 The Point Is... 01:30  |  Jeff Northridge 10/06/07
  382.   sg: Urgent need to read the New Historians 01:33  |  Angela 10/06/07
  383.   # 347Boycott. What is This I hear?A Voice Crying... 01:41  |  Kath` 10/06/07
  384.   Angela - whether you believe it or not - re: Arab Jews 01:44  |  William 10/06/07
  385.   Bernie: Israel can keep what they bought 01:53  |  William 10/06/07
  386.   Mr Carlo Strenger, thanks for an insightful article. 01:54  |  Hamza 10/06/07
  387.   KUTW Re Naqba 01:56  |  GABE1 10/06/07
  388.   #5 BERNIE, U R so right in your assessment 01:59  |  Francois 10/06/07
  389.   Pablo - blocking and forcing out are two different things #232 01:59  |  William 10/06/07
  390.   CHGODMK-Hilarious #340 02:06  |  GABE1 10/06/07
  391.   Angela on the New Revisionists #382 02:06  |  William 10/06/07
  392.   Israel`s responsibility in the nakba 02:08  |  peter 10/06/07
  393.   Why Saudi Initiative won`t bring peace 02:14  |  William 10/06/07
  394.   Bernie # 351 The Explanation 02:15  |  Jeff Northridge 10/06/07
  395.   #382 ANGELA 02:28  |  rolf 10/06/07
  396.   Jeff Northridge #260 02:28  |  Elias Khoury 10/06/07
  397.   #344, Bernie, what pogroms are the Palestinians... 02:28  |  Bruce 10/06/07
  398.   Strenger, maybe we will eventually... 02:30  |  Adi 10/06/07
  399.   Thanks Kath`. I enjoy your viewpoint too. 02:34  |  Jason 10/06/07
  400.   Nakba PT1 02:35  |  Av10.3830 10/06/07
  401.   Nakba PT2 02:37  |  Av10.3830 10/06/07
  402.   Angela, are you in denial? 02:40  |  Bruce 10/06/07
  403.   117 PAUL HARRIS 02:46  |  Av10.3830 10/06/07
  404.   Israel should study Saudy initiative 02:47  |  Bruce 10/06/07
  405.   # 359 CHGODMK. Where the hell iw Danite?!/!?.. 02:50  |  Kath` 10/06/07
  406.   # 347 Boycott. Kath? YES??? 02:53  |  Kath` 10/06/07
  407.   peter of Montreal #392 02:58  |  GABE 1 10/06/07
  408.   #189 Abdulla 03:00  |  Bruce 10/06/07
  409.   HISTORY EXPERTS 03:17  |  STRONGBOW 10/06/07