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Last update - 11:44 23/01/2007
Occupation: It's horrid, but it's not apartheid
By Bradley Burston

The following is the next in a series of experiments.

It will begin with an appeal for readers to subvert the talkback function for the public good.

It will then continue with a new feature. Selected talkback comments will be highlighted, followed by a response by the author.

__________________________


A friend asked this week why news reports highlight the hate-filled messages of racist Muslim sheikhs in the West and crackpot settlers in Hebron, while ignoring truly blessed work being done for co-existence, efforts which receive little or no media exposure.

Of course she was right. With a keen eye for the tabloid-worthy, we dutifully report the worst in bigoted declarations, feeling ourselves all the more righteous for exposing filth and hatred.

Accordingly, we ask our readers to use the talkback feature to inform the public of efforts by individuals and groups to foster coexistence, counter extremism and hatred, and work for a shared future of well-being.

We want to hear about people who are working to bring peace back from the dead.



_______________________________


From talkbacks over the past week:

In response to the article Jimmy Carter's offensive against U.S. Jewry:

It is disingenuous of Bradley Burston to say that in Israel only extremists refer to Israel`s governance regime of the Palestinian Occupied Territories as apartheid. Former Israeli Education Minister Shulamit Aloni also recently compared Israel`s policies in the POT to those in South Africa under the apartheid regime
(see http://www.counterpunch.org/aloni01082007.html)

Leila Kawar, Brooklyn, New York

I wrote that Carter's use of the word apartheid "assured that Israelis would associate his stance with that of Yasser Arafat at the close of his career, and dismiss the book out of hand."

In my view, what is disingenuous is to pretend that the word apartheid is used as a purely descriptive term.

Wherever one may sit on the pro-Palestinian to pro-Israel continuum, it is evident that the word apartheid is used for a number of reasons, but fostering understanding is not one of them.

It is used specifically because it incites and inflames. Jimmy Carter knows this as well as anyone: When applied to the Arab Israeli conflict, the word apartheid ends discussion, rather than promoting it.

Its purpose is to vilify and demonize. In the arsenal of the extremist, it is the step one takes before making reference to Nazi Germany.

The use of apartheid by a man so well versed in the psyches of the two sides to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, by a man who at the height of his career distinguished himself by bringing warring peoples together, is at best counter-productive. At worse it is intellectual sleaze, graffiti in place of reasoned argument.

The occupation is not corrupting and oppressive because it resembles apartheid. The occupation is corrupting and oppressive because it is exactly what it is.

The occupation is horrid, but it is not apartheid.

The occupation must be opposed not because it resembles apartheid, but because it is overtly destructive to both Palestinians and Israelis.

The use of the term apartheid actually contributes to one of the primary reasons why the occupation continues. It is the "Oom Shmoom" syndrome - the Israeli mindset that says "The whole world curses and mislabels us for anything we do or don't do, so we might as well go on doing what we're doing."

As it is, it is too easy for Israelis to maintain a state of denial over the occupation and its evils. It is too easy for Israelis to dismiss hyperbole, to wave away comparisons to the Nazis and other genocidal regimes.

What is needed is honest criticism of the occupation as it is. What is needed is exposure of the specific ways in which Israel's policies cause harm to the harmless, and, in the process, are bad for Israel as well.

The occupation will not end because of a thousand rockets, or ten thousand. It will not end through boycotts by publicity starved academics.

It will end by means of Israelis being exposed to and coming to terms with wrongheaded and often immoral acts committed in the name of security, acts which often harm only non-combatants. It will come through the actions of Israeli courts, of a U.S. administration actively seeking solutions, and, eventually, though the actions of courageous Israeli politicians.

It will come through diplomacy, international involvement, and a process in which mutual demonization gives way to compromise.

What is needed is an attempt to approach Israelis as human beings trying, if often failing, to deal with an impossible array of complex variables.

Human beings, not evil, bloodthirsty colonialist Zionist thugs. Human beings, not a collection of facile, mean-spirited labels.


___________________



Recent blogs:

Leave the U.S. embassy where it is
Jimmy Carter's offensive against U.S. Jewry
Next year in Palestine
What's wrong with Israelis

___________________


The guiding principles of the talkback forum for this article will be mutual respect and openness to dialogue. Participants, even if they rule out, dismiss or oppose coexistence, must, within the confines of this forum, practice it.

Censorship will be unapologetic.

Political orientation will have absolutely no bearing on whether a comment is posted or rejected.

The following will be grounds for deletion:

1. Racist remarks, as well as slurs on the basis of religion, ethnicity and gender.
2. Use of the terms Nazi, Hitler, to describe the actions and policies of Israelis, Palestinians or other parties to the Israel-Arab conflict.
3. Disparaging remarks, personal attacks, vulgarities and profanities directed at other participants in the forum.
4. Advocacy of violence against individuals or religious, ethnic or racial groups, including statements which may be construed as urging attacks on leaders, officials, security forces or civilians.

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  1.   "OOM SHMOOM SYNDROME?" C`MOONN... 10:07  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  2.   modern civilisation is hell AND its not free either 10:10  |  paul harris 23/01/07
  3.   Typical pro-Israeli response 10:21  |  Sami 23/01/07
  4.   "Separation" 10:27  |  JW 23/01/07
  5.   Institurional discrimination = Apartheid 10:28  |  John 23/01/07
  6.   apatheid is racism 10:50  |  flashman 23/01/07
  7.   edwina currie the former british minister 10:53  |  flashman 23/01/07
  8.   Apartheid is accurate 10:55  |  Marilyn 23/01/07
  9.   apartheid-shmapartheid, stupid name callings 10:58  |  joe 23/01/07
  10.   I Think We Jews Feel As Bad About It As Anyone Else! 10:58  |  Yosemite 23/01/07
  11.   # 3, SAMI 11:00  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  12.   # 3, SAMI 11:00  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  13.   When parts are apart . . . . . 11:00  |  revoltop 23/01/07
  14.   now if you 11:01  |  cool 23/01/07
  15.   I agree with flashman 11:12  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 23/01/07
  16.   Mr. Burston, it a bit it like the word `terrorist,` isn`t it? 11:12  |  Jeremiah 23/01/07
  17.   IF Arabs pay the author its apartheid.If it is Darfur or Tibet 11:21  |  PETER SM 23/01/07
  18.   Marilyn: Its a lot more complext than you say 11:22  |  Michael 23/01/07
  19.   Justified 11:28  |  Avi 23/01/07
  20.   So what`s Bradley doing to stop the occupation? 11:30  |  Michael 23/01/07
  21.   Israel`s Options: Bad and Worse 11:44  |  Eli 23/01/07
  22.   What TWISTED/PERVERSE Thinking! ...There Are NO EXCUSES Here. 11:47  |  Proud Pal Defender 23/01/07
  23.   jw 11:49  |  bev 23/01/07
  24.   To Cipora Julianna Kohn 11:52  |  John 23/01/07
  25.   joe in Tel Aviv absolutely correct (end) 11:52  |  bev 23/01/07
  26.   # 10, YOSEMITE SAM 11:54  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  27.   to Indonesia 12:00  |  bev 23/01/07
  28.   #24, John 12:02  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 23/01/07
  29.   Bradley`s answer: let Israel end the occupation when it wants 12:06  |  Michael 23/01/07
  30.   # 8, MARILYN 12:10  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  31.   P.P.DEFENDER. The Pal.Covenant & the Hamas Charter got you there. 12:12  |  PETERSM 23/01/07
  32.   It is Apartheid my Friend 12:15  |  Khalid 23/01/07
  33.   #3, Sami, I also have a clear situation here. 12:15  |  Avi 23/01/07
  34.   Media responsibility 12:19  |  Arnie 23/01/07
  35.   Stupid, unintelligent Jews 12:19  |  Khalid 23/01/07
  36.   #26 indrajaya 12:27  |  Avi 23/01/07
  37.   #3 Sami: "the situation is even worse than apartheid" 12:28  |  Yonatan 23/01/07
  38.   Bradley: Liberation is not occupation 12:41  |  Yacov 23/01/07
  39.   # 25, BEV 12:41  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  40.   khalid 12:45  |  bev 23/01/07
  41.   The E. C. term 12:48  |  Bill 23/01/07
  42.   No. 8 - White Australia Policy 12:59  |  Zelkha 23/01/07
  43.   One arguement 13:01  |  Seanirl 23/01/07
  44.   Apartheid 13:04  |  Oetis 23/01/07
  45.   Khalid, why do you think you were stopped from driving on that 13:04  |  Nadav 23/01/07
  46.   Khalid 13:05  |  Jasmine Murphy 23/01/07
  47.   & NO KIDDING THE SUN TANS US ALL ! 13:06  |  paul harris 23/01/07
  48.   Khalid 13:07  |  Ariel 23/01/07
  49.   # 32, AVI 13:08  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  50.   Khalid no need to call you stupid, because you are 13:08  |  Jasmine Murphy 23/01/07
  51.   Defining the occupied teritories 13:11  |  Joe 23/01/07
  52.   #32 YES THERE IS APARTHEID IN ARAB LANDS 13:12  |  paul harris 23/01/07
  53.   Oetis 13:12  |  Ariel 23/01/07
  54.   Apartheid versus two independent states 13:17  |  Ben Azai 23/01/07
  55.   An insult to sufferers under real apartheid 13:23  |  howard 23/01/07
  56.   It is apartheid by definition 13:28  |  Saifedean Ammous 23/01/07
  57.   indrajaya 13:31  |  Zed 23/01/07
  58.   To Ben Azai #54 13:40  |  Oetis 23/01/07
  59.   # 57, ZED 13:43  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  60.   #58 SAMMOUS IMPOSSIBLE JEWS ARABS ARE BOTH SEMITES 13:44  |  paul harris 23/01/07
  61.   re: Yonatan 13:49  |  Sami 23/01/07
  62.   To Ariel #53 13:51  |  Oetis 23/01/07
  63.   Withdrawal is disastrous 13:51  |  Shalom Freedman 23/01/07
  64.   #35 The moral obligations of the creme de la creme 13:53  |  sh 23/01/07
  65.   reson for using word "apartheid" 13:58  |  Richie 23/01/07
  66.   indonesia 14:00  |  bev 23/01/07
  67.   Why import terminology? 14:00  |  Tzfonit 23/01/07
  68.   ...to Sami#3...apartheid? 14:01  |  abraham...mico 23/01/07
  69.   Saifedean 14:02  |  Ariel 23/01/07
  70.   "HORRID" LITTLE OCCUPATION 14:02  |  ISHMAEL ISHMAEL 23/01/07
  71.   Call it burger and fries if you like, 14:02  |  sh 23/01/07
  72.   Of course it`s Apartheid. 14:04  |  Jens 23/01/07
  73.   seannirl or girl 14:04  |  bev 23/01/07
  74.   learn to love "apartheid," you`re stuck w/it brad 14:07  |  ted 23/01/07
  75.   Terrorism, Jihad, militias, and support are horrid 14:13  |  B 23/01/07
  76.   Ummm, so it`s not apartheid? 14:14  |  Johnboy 23/01/07
  77.   oetis 14:15  |  bev 23/01/07
  78.   #73 No one has rights in those dictatorships 14:16  |  Jens 23/01/07
  79.   A key theme identified 14:19  |  Mike 23/01/07
  80.   Oetis 14:20  |  Ariel 23/01/07
  81.   Differences? 14:23  |  Jup33 23/01/07
  82.   Nadav: 1987 first intifada 14:23  |  A Bethlehemite 23/01/07
  83.   Nice gestures and the Holy Grail 14:23  |  Ronnie Wolman 23/01/07
  84.   Ted 14:26  |  Ariel 23/01/07
  85.   # 66, BEV 14:26  |  indrajaya 23/01/07
  86.   Is Lebanon APARTHEID? 14:30  |  B 23/01/07
  87.   ...to Ted#74...It is a war, Stupid. 14:31  |  soldier 23/01/07
  88.   #49, Indrajaya 14:34  |  Avi 23/01/07
  89.   To Ariel #69 14:37  |  Oetis 23/01/07
  90.   Sami, this is truly utter nonsense the way you describe 14:38  |  Nadav 23/01/07
  91.   #59 Indrajaya 14:39  |  Avi 23/01/07
  92.   Is entire ME Apartheid? 14:39  |  B 23/01/07
  93.   Bracha/Tzfonit 14:45  |  Gabe1 23/01/07
  94.   What is needed is honest criticism of the occupation as it is. 14:48  |  ernst 23/01/07
  95.   Sh #71 14:50  |  Gabe1 23/01/07
  96.   indonesia 14:51  |  bev 23/01/07
  97.   Not Apartheid??? 14:53  |  Liz 23/01/07
  98.   SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY 14:53  |  Brant 23/01/07
  99.   #70ISHMAEL QUOTES PAPPE A LOAD OF CRAP 14:53  |  paul harris 23/01/07
  100.   #61 Sami 14:54  |  Avi 23/01/07
  101.   Sovereign Defense of Nation from Jihad= Apartheid? 14:54  |  B 23/01/07
  102.   Ronnie Wolman #83 15:02  |  Gabe1 23/01/07
  103.   Occupation ends Only if it is too Costly 15:18  |  Hank N Tennessee 23/01/07
  104.   to ariel 15:29  |  ted 23/01/07
  105.   It is not apartheid 15:38  |  Mark Lincoln 23/01/07
  106.   MR. Burston- you are absolutely wrong 15:40  |  Michael N 23/01/07
  107.   ...to Khalid...Be happy...Hamas love you 15:45  |  soldier 23/01/07
  108.   Ills due not to color, creed or religion but intent!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 15:45  |  B 23/01/07
  109.   And further, 15:53  |  Michael N 23/01/07
  110.   Occupation will do nicely till Apartheid comes along 15:54  |  Hank N Tennessee 23/01/07
  111.   What`s in the name? 16:03  |  Michael N 23/01/07
  112.   Israel exists with 22 arab states,every 1 go home 16:04  |  sam 23/01/07
  113.   It is apartheid, indeed 16:06  |  Sami 23/01/07
  114.   "fostering understanding" 16:16  |  Gregory Whitehall 23/01/07
  115.   I disagree with Burston 16:20  |  Stephen Murray 23/01/07
  116.   Ariel...you are not telling the truth 16:20  |  Khalid 23/01/07
  117.   One of the most badly mis-handled occupations ever 16:20  |  Michael 23/01/07
  118.   My take on the situation 16:31  |  Chris Linthwaite 23/01/07
  119.   The South Afrikaners refused the term "occupation" 16:34  |  Oswald 23/01/07
  120.   How to coexist with Jihad? 16:34  |  B 23/01/07
  121.   Bradley Bush? 16:39  |  Tom Spender 23/01/07
  122.   "It`s not Apartheid" Mark 16:40  |  Gunnar 23/01/07
  123.   Apartheid by definition: 16:40  |  JB 23/01/07
  124.   IT IS OCCUPATION & RACISM 16:41  |  Cobran 23/01/07
  125.   "Chosen" to put up w Jens/Oetis/Khalid/Indra`s lies 16:41  |  Reality Check 23/01/07
  126.   Nadav, stop sanitizing the occupation. 16:45  |  Ibrahim 23/01/07
  127.   Not Apartheid?? 16:51  |  Lars Hansen 23/01/07
  128.   Mark Lincoln....Occupation does not say it all 17:07  |  Ibrahim 23/01/07
  129.   it resembles apartheid 17:08  |  Jim 23/01/07
  130.   it resembles apartheid 17:13  |  Jim 23/01/07
  131.   it resembles apartheid 17:13  |  Jim 23/01/07
  132.   bradley, your own editor disagrees with you 17:14  |  ted 23/01/07
  133.   OSWALD I like that line... 17:19  |  Chaval 23/01/07
  134.   It`s far worse than Apartheid 17:19  |  Elizabeth 23/01/07
  135.   Carter`s sensationalism 17:22  |  Joel Pollak 23/01/07
  136.   What then, Mr. Burston, is Apartheid? 17:24  |  Yaakov Sullivan 23/01/07
  137.   How about "Israeli-Apartheid"? 17:28  |  Majory 23/01/07
  138.   Burston speaks the most sense I have heard about this book! 17:31  |  B. Clarke 23/01/07
  139.   Finally! Attention to definitions 17:39  |  Polybios 23/01/07
  140.   #47 Hey Paul; I agree with your post, so when 17:47  |  ballistic 23/01/07
  141.   Really, Hank N., #110? 17:51  |  Polybios 23/01/07
  142.   Ibrahim, my note was in response to a specific note, accusing ... 17:53  |  Nadav 23/01/07
  143.   Khalid #116 - you know very well it`s not that simple... 17:53  |  Peace now! 23/01/07
  144.   Rhetoric 17:53  |  Toukan 23/01/07
  145.   #110 Hank in Tennessee: the Discovery Channel 17:54  |  ballistic 23/01/07
  146.   #118 Chris, didn`t Israel support S Africa`s policies 17:56  |  ballistic 23/01/07
  147.   Mark Lincoln # 104 Good Point 17:57  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  148.   Israeli apartheid aimed at effecting Palestinian extinction 17:57  |  Khalid 23/01/07
  149.   I`m sure we`ll all feel equally bad about it once Iran nukes us 18:02  |  Gili 23/01/07
  150.   fmr. att`y gen`l called it apartheid regime 18:02  |  ted 23/01/07
  151.   What then do YOU call it, Mr. Burston? 18:04  |  Yaakov Sullivan 23/01/07
  152.   Occupation: An Inciting Term Itself 18:06  |  Simcha 23/01/07
  153.   Occupation not Apartheid--true but... 18:10  |  Michael Greenberg 23/01/07
  154.   #139 Polybios 18:11  |  Chris Linthwaite 23/01/07
  155.   only the willfully blind 18:17  |  margaret 23/01/07
  156.   Mark Lincoln is unequivocally wrong 18:19  |  Michael N 23/01/07
  157.   Finally, Inattention To Geography -Polybios #139 18:19  |  Victor Smolinsky 23/01/07
  158.   Oetis # 89 The Partition Plan of 1947 18:29  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  159.   JW, your idea is outrages, 18:31  |  TOMY 23/01/07
  160.   "It isn`t Apartheid"-"It wasn`t a bullit" 18:32  |  Liz 23/01/07
  161.   Nice try polibios 18:33  |  Michael N 23/01/07
  162.   victor smolinsky 18:36  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  163.   "Finally! Attention to definitions" 18:40  |  Konrad W 23/01/07
  164.   Marilyn has difficulty understand 18:41  |  TOMY 23/01/07
  165.   Ibrahim # 128 Where Does That Leave Us? 18:46  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  166.   michael n 18:47  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  167.   Occupation is not Apartheid (1) 18:48  |  Ian 23/01/07
  168.   Apartheid, Israel and SA 18:48  |  Phil 23/01/07
  169.   Not convincing, Mr. Burston 18:49  |  Adam 23/01/07
  170.   michael n "icc says" 18:49  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  171.   Occupation is not Apartheid (2) 18:49  |  Ian 23/01/07
  172.   A word that illuminates 18:50  |  Tosefta 23/01/07
  173.   michael n "icc he say" 18:52  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  174.   michael n "icc he say" 18:52  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  175.   To Bradley Burston 18:54  |  Derek Hootman 23/01/07
  176.   Nadav...it works both ways 18:55  |  Ibrahim 23/01/07
  177.   michael n is patronising 18:56  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  178.   michael n "why are you so inflamed" 18:59  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  179.   If you call it Apartheid we are not going to do anything about it 19:00  |  Simon 23/01/07
  180.   michael n "israel`s twisted logic" 19:00  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  181.   Walk like a duck??? 19:01  |  Joe 23/01/07
  182.   Ted Oetis and Khalid 19:01  |  Ariel 23/01/07
  183.   Occupation is apartheid!!! 19:02  |  Yellowbirdwoman 23/01/07
  184.   michael n "if the word is so offensive pull out 19:03  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  185.   to marilyn,apartheid isnt as bad as genecide,which is what your 19:03  |  terrornator 23/01/07
  186.   Apartheid!no other word 19:04  |  collond 23/01/07
  187.   Ian, no one buys this crap anymore. Its that simple.#171 19:04  |  Yaakov Sullivan 23/01/07
  188.   "gettit now?" #162 NO 19:07  |  Victor Smolinsky 23/01/07
  189.   Khalid, Ibrahim and other Palestinian Arab posters, it is so ... 19:07  |  Nadav 23/01/07
  190.   Terror as an excuse for Apartheid (Ian #167, 171) 19:08  |  Tosefta 23/01/07
  191.   YES, it is APARTHEID that is going on in the territories... 19:09  |  Joe 23/01/07
  192.   policy-lite tosefta 19:09  |  flashman 23/01/07
  193.   to jeremiah # 16 what is this term,"physical,nonlethal assualt" 19:13  |  terrornator 23/01/07
  194.   Working for coexistence 19:14  |  George W 23/01/07
  195.   Apartheit is not Apartheit but separation and suppression 19:15  |  Fritz 23/01/07
  196.   tosefta the mizrahi jews are the same racial group 19:15  |  flashman 23/01/07
  197.   tosefta the mizrahi jews are the same racial group 19:15  |  flashman 23/01/07
  198.   Jeff Northridge remains confused... 19:17  |  Ibrahim 23/01/07
  199.   tosefta your post is anything but illuminating 19:18  |  flashman 23/01/07
  200.   Michael N # 145 The ICC Implies It 19:18  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  201.   161 Nice Try Michael N 19:24  |  Logician 23/01/07
  202.   Ibrahim, I actually do not blame Arabs for any of the things you 19:24  |  Nadav 23/01/07
  203.   Palestinian Apartheid prevents Jews from living beside them 19:30  |  Gili 23/01/07
  204.   smoilinsky we are discussing apartheid 19:36  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  205.   smolinski 19:41  |  ezra baqqal 23/01/07
  206.   Return of the shallow water, multi-headed hydra (aka "flashman") 19:41  |  Tosefta 23/01/07
  207.   tosefta are you really saying that the 19:45  |  flashman 23/01/07
  208.   i would take a bet that tosefta was 19:47  |  flashman 23/01/07
  209.   Nadav 19:54  |  Ibrahim 23/01/07
  210.   Basic misunderstanding (Jeff Northridge #200 re Michaerl N) 19:56  |  Tosefta 23/01/07
  211.   116 Khalid: Ethnic cleansing started by Palestinians 20:00  |  Logician 23/01/07
  212.   collond # 186 Not So Fast 20:07  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  213.   Rebuttal 20:11  |  Altalena 23/01/07
  214.   Ariel...Israel is a democracy, so what? 20:20  |  Khalid 23/01/07
  215.   I developed my own two state solution 20:21  |  Gennadiy 23/01/07
  216.   Gabe: Equivalence 20:23  |  Ronnie Wolman 23/01/07
  217.   Yaakov Re: #187 20:23  |  Ian 23/01/07
  218.   tosefta so the south african apartheid 20:24  |  flashman 23/01/07
  219.   Technically incompetent censor 20:27  |  Me 23/01/07
  220.   tosefta"something must be stuck up there" 20:27  |  flashman 23/01/07
  221.   Gili #203 I`m laughing at you 20:29  |  margaret 23/01/07
  222.   tosefta "definitions that do not matter" 20:30  |  flashman 23/01/07
  223.   tosefta frequently insults his interlocutors 20:31  |  flashman 23/01/07
  224.   Gunnar - I have lived in an Apartheid state 20:33  |  Mark Lincoln 23/01/07
  225.   baqqal #204 20:33  |  Victor Smolinsky 23/01/07
  226.   Ibrahim 20:34  |  Mark Lincoln 23/01/07
  227.   Jeff Northridge 20:36  |  Mark Lincoln 23/01/07
  228.   Ibrahim, in reference to Hamas refusal to accept past agreements, 20:39  |  Nadav 23/01/07
  229.   tosefta `but from the palestinian view it is exactly 20:39  |  flashman 23/01/07
  230.   No Michael N 20:39  |  Mark Lincoln 23/01/07
  231.   Ibrahim # 198 Occupation Termination 20:41  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  232.   Ian on the Arab Jews #217 20:45  |  Yaakov Sullivan 23/01/07
  233.   Does no good? 20:51  |  Nick 23/01/07
  234.   ...1200 millions vs 7 millions...Apartheid ?... 21:00  |  UGY the she camel 23/01/07
  235.   #154 Chris, 157 Victor, 161 Michael, 163 Konrad... 21:12  |  Polybios 23/01/07
  236.   Tosefta, you covering a lot, but you should 21:16  |  TOMY 23/01/07
  237.   definition of "apartheid," 21:24  |  Karan 23/01/07
  238.   Apartheid vs. Occupation 21:26  |  Jackson 23/01/07
  239.   about names 21:28  |  Cat 23/01/07
  240.   Tosefta # 210 Yeah, I`m Stuck Alright 21:28  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  241.   re 19 21:31  |  Devin 23/01/07
  242.   for Mark #224 21:32  |  Jerrym 23/01/07
  243.   Joe, Walk like a duck? Looks like a duck? 21:33  |  TOMY 23/01/07
  244.   All nations are apartheid, if Israel is. 21:34  |  natan 23/01/07
  245.   Yellowbirdwoman 21:36  |  Cat 23/01/07
  246.   Mark #230 21:37  |  Jerrym 23/01/07
  247.   Apartheid 21:37  |  Ed 23/01/07
  248.   Yaakov re: 231 21:39  |  Ian 23/01/07
  249.   # 183 Yellowbirdwoman @ Rapid City / South Dakota / USA 21:40  |  Joseph E . 23/01/07
  250.   1indrajaya:. OOM SHMOOM SYNDROME?" C`MOONN... 21:40  |  KUTW 23/01/07
  251.   Ronnie Wolman #216 21:41  |  Gabe1 23/01/07
  252.   Nadav regarding Hamas and Violence 21:55  |  Ibrahim 23/01/07
  253.   Mr. Burston`s mistake 21:56  |  flimflam 23/01/07
  254.   Natan 244 22:00  |  Cat 23/01/07
  255.   To all my european anti-Israel bashers-Your turn is coming soon, 22:00  |  "divine retribution" 23/01/07
  256.   False: "The Arabs are masters of their own destiny" (Tomy #236) 22:14  |  Tosefta 23/01/07
  257.   Soon they say that occupation, walls etc are to protect Pals 22:21  |  Petteri 23/01/07
  258.   Irrelevant definitions (Jeff N #240) 22:22  |  Tosefta 23/01/07
  259.   Bradley , you say this and that is needed , 22:25  |  Joseph E . 23/01/07
  260.   APARTHEID. No ambiguity in the Hamas charter!. Clear for all 22:33  |  PETER SM 23/01/07
  261.   Marilyn - Apartheid inaccurate 22:34  |  David Israel 23/01/07
  262.   Jeff Northridge...again...lost in space 22:35  |  Ibrahim 23/01/07
  263.   Burston 22:38  |  Omar 23/01/07
  264.   Cat 22:48  |  natan 23/01/07
  265.   Very Creative Genadity of Brookline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 22:48  |  Bandar Michaels 23/01/07
  266.   Mr Burstons interest in ending the occupation 22:52  |  Frederico 23/01/07
  267.   Your foundation is rotten and so the house collapses, Ian #248 22:53  |  Yaakov Sullivan 23/01/07
  268.   Obsolete Talkback? 22:58  |  Jonathan S 23/01/07
  269.   #225 HUH? 23:01  |  Lynn 23/01/07
  270.   #172, "a word that illuminates" 23:01  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 23/01/07
  271.   `divine retribution" I don`t quite understand #255 23:02  |  Yaakov Sullivan 23/01/07
  272.   # 161 Apartheid and Israel 23:10  |  Lynn 23/01/07
  273.   # 256 Arafat difficult? 23:13  |  Lynn 23/01/07
  274.   NO Mark Lincoln 23:15  |  Michael N 23/01/07
  275.   Evil PA 23:16  |  Devin 23/01/07
  276.   # 6,. answered the debate! 23:17  |  Devin 23/01/07
  277.   Ibrahim 23:17  |  Danite 23/01/07
  278.   Gabe 1: History and Hysteria 23:18  |  Ronnie Wolman 23/01/07
  279.   Jerrym # 242 The Three Zones (part 1) 23:19  |  Jeff Northridge 23/01/07
  280.   To Bradley Burston 23:20  |  Michael N 23/01/07
  281.   Cipora re Tosefta 23:20  |  Danite 23/01/07
  282.   GET THOSE VIRGINS! 23:23  |  Jeff 23/01/07
  283.   #268, Jonathan S 23:29  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 23/01/07
  284.   Jews were welcome where? Yaakov #267 23:31  |  Ian 23/01/07
  285.   Khalid, Marylyn and the rest of you 23:39  |  Avrum 23/01/07
  286.   History deficit (Lynn #273) 23:40  |  Tosefta 23/01/07
  287.   253. flimflam: mistake 23:44  |  KUTW 23/01/07
  288.   254. Cat 23:48  |  KUTW 23/01/07
  289.   I thought you said you lived in Hebron, Khalid? 23:51  |  Jacob Blues 23/01/07
  290.   #272 Lynn 23:54  |  Larry 23/01/07
  291.   283On the question of virgins. If a female suicide bomber- 23:56  |  curious 23/01/07
  292.   #189 Nadav, How Scandolous .... 00:00  |  Dutch 24/01/07
  293.   Attempted Genocide, Khalid? Wow, a new one from you 00:01  |  Jacob Blues 24/01/07
  294.   Bird from Outerspace #270 00:03  |  Tosefta 24/01/07
  295.   So where have you shoved your morality, Khalid? 00:05  |  Jacob Blues 24/01/07
  296.   an inconvienant truth 00:05  |  blinky the fish 24/01/07
  297.   to Oetis 00:09  |  Scharker Yid 24/01/07
  298.   Wow Yaacov, so Jews in Baghdad were wealthy 00:10  |  Jacob Blues 24/01/07
  299.   Jerrym # 242 The Three Zones (part 2) 00:17  |  Jeff Northridge 24/01/07
  300.   You make it sound as a threat Dutch 00:18  |  Jacob Blues 24/01/07
  301.   Regardless of the cause, there has been no debate about the occup 00:22  |  Apartheid 24/01/07
  302.   Not apartheid now but certainly headed there 00:22  |  Dave 24/01/07
  303.   apartheid & terrorism 00:32  |  TimothyL 24/01/07
  304.   "You`re angry, so the A word must be working"! 00:38  |  Moises 24/01/07
  305.   APARTHEID 00:46  |  Stephen Connor 24/01/07
  306.   An answer for Cipora Julianna Kohn 00:47  |  Jonathan S 24/01/07
  307.   Apartheid, delusions of supremacy or just plain terrorist? 00:48  |  Maureen Ann 24/01/07
  308.   ETHICS 00:49  |  TOBIA 24/01/07
  309.   Karan - look up the definition don`t make it up 00:59  |  Stephen Connor 24/01/07
  310.   #189 Yaakov, i love your straight talk 01:01  |  Dutch 24/01/07
  311.   ok i am convinced 01:09  |  syvanen 24/01/07
  312.   #171 Ian, where your argument starts going off the rails 01:25  |  Johnboy 24/01/07
  313.   Tosefta - History deficit 01:27  |  Oh please 24/01/07
  314.   Bradley, you might have had a good argument 01:35  |  Marlene 24/01/07
  315.   Ibrahim # 262 The Space Cadet Responds 01:40  |  Jeff Northridge 24/01/07
  316.   #293, TimothyL 01:41  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 24/01/07
  317.   Jerrym - land 01:46  |  Mark Lincoln 24/01/07
  318.   bradley -my most sincere apologies to htz i didnt hit send!!!!! 01:48  |  blinky the fish 24/01/07
  319.   Bradley , terror PLO/PA fires rockets from Gaza 01:49  |  Joseph E . 24/01/07
  320.   So tell me No. 10 with your excuses 01:49  |  Marlene 24/01/07
  321.   Jew only roads 01:49  |  Mark Lincoln 24/01/07
  322.   President Carter achieved his goal 01:51  |  Democratic American 24/01/07
  323.   Ballistic DID IT SAY 01:52  |  TOBIA 24/01/07
  324.   Nanny 911 01:54  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  325.   Bradley Burston never seizes to amaze me [Part 1] 02:02  |  Eckestein 24/01/07
  326.   Ronnie Wolman #278 02:05  |  Gabe1 24/01/07
  327.   Bradley Burston never seizes to amaze me [Part 2] 02:05  |  Eckestein 24/01/07
  328.   #1 Indrajaya- your concerns are most touching & hypocritical 02:19  |  * BEN JABO 24/01/07
  329.   Jacob Blues 02:41  |  Gbae1 24/01/07
  330.   TImothyL 02:43  |  Stephen Connor 24/01/07
  331.   To Mark Lincoln 02:51  |  Gunnar 24/01/07
  332.   Ian - Occupation is not Apartheid (1) 02:51  |  Stephen Connor 24/01/07
  333.   Bird from Outerspace #270 02:53  |  Tosefta 24/01/07
  334.   Polybios - definitions 02:57  |  Stephen Connor 24/01/07
  335.   # 268 Jonathan S @ Frankfurt / Germany 02:57  |  Joseph E . 24/01/07
  336.   Michael N 03:08  |  Stephen Connor 24/01/07
  337.   Venezuela Will Sail Its Fleet to Gaza 03:25  |  Muhammud al-Swain 24/01/07
  338.   Dutch - re Wondering Jew and Other Garbage. 03:26  |  Phinias Whoppy 24/01/07
  339.   Hi Hannah I Continue to Think of You 03:29  |  Phinias Whoppy 24/01/07
  340.   Okay Indrajaya! That`s The Last Straw! Let`s Lay It On The Line! 03:44  |  Yosemite 24/01/07
  341.   Boers are people, too 03:50  |  brooksfoe 24/01/07
  342.   #317 Stephen 03:58  |  Michael N 24/01/07
  343.   #295 Oh please, have some comprehension 04:00  |  Tosefta 24/01/07
  344.   Tobia; #304---are you talking about the TV program 04:06  |  ballistic 24/01/07
  345.   Flashman 04:11  |  Danite 24/01/07
  346.   Mr. Burston versus Mr. Carter. Who`s right? 04:15  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  347.   Danite, on the contrary.... 04:28  |  Ibrahim 24/01/07
  348.   #286 Tosefta, were are you getting your 04:40  |  TOMY 24/01/07
  349.   #286 Tosefta, were are you getting your 04:41  |  TOMY 24/01/07
  350.   Just end the Occupation 04:51  |  RW 24/01/07
  351.   Cipora, can you truly not see what people are upset about? 04:52  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  352.   #321, Tosefta 1 04:53  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 24/01/07
  353.   It`s not apartheid 05:00  |  Shmuelshachor 24/01/07
  354.   #321, Tosefta 2 05:02  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 24/01/07
  355.   Palestine 05:02  |  izaak 24/01/07
  356.   Everyone should read post #8 by Marilyn 05:05  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  357.   Read Khalid #40 to understand what it`s like to be Palestinian. 05:21  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  358.   #341, Brooksfoe 05:26  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  359.   #189 Yakov/Dutch response 05:27  |  ballistic 24/01/07
  360.   #342, Michael N 05:29  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 24/01/07
  361.   Bradley , how ca you talk to pals who oppose and deny Israel 05:30  |  Joseph E . 24/01/07
  362.   #353 Shmielshachor`s view 05:30  |  Johnboy 24/01/07
  363.   #338 Phinias, now there is a truthful 05:31  |  ballistic 24/01/07
  364.   The definition of the word "Apartheid" supports Carter`s use. 05:45  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  365.   Definition of "Apartheid" Supports Carter`s Use. 05:50  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  366.   Occupation: It`s horrid, but it`s not apartheid 05:57  |  Bob 24/01/07
  367.   People Who Lived Through It In Afria Are Calling It Apartheid. 05:59  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  368.   So what do you want? 06:06  |  Colin Wright 24/01/07
  369.   Here`s the problem with `just ending the occupation` RW 06:12  |  Jacob Blues 24/01/07
  370.   Arguments that "apartheid" is the wrong word boil down to this. 06:13  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  371.   Tomy #352 06:22  |  Tosefta 24/01/07
  372.   #351, Timothy 06:25  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 24/01/07
  373.   Whatever you call it, it is BAD and must be brought to an end. 06:28  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  374.   Re Michael 06:33  |  shlom gurewicz 24/01/07
  375.   Bird from Outerspace #352, 354 06:38  |  Tosefta 24/01/07
  376.   # 59, AVI 06:42  |  indrajaya 24/01/07
  377.   # 59, AVI 06:42  |  indrajaya 24/01/07
  378.   Marilyn 07:00  |  Connie 24/01/07
  379.   Re Marlene 07:06  |  shlomo gurewicz 24/01/07
  380.   If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it`s a duck. 07:10  |  Timothy 24/01/07
  381.   Brad - Please Knock Off the "Good Jew" Crap 07:20  |  Tod Zuckerman 24/01/07
  382.   362 Johnboy?s ignorance? 07:25  |  Michigan 24/01/07
  383.   You Like That eh Ballistic # 364 07:26  |  Phinias Whoppy 24/01/07
  384.   Dutch (Doris Cadigan):Your orders are fulfilled.New instructions? 07:26  |  People of the World 24/01/07
  385.   JOHYNBOY #362.Israel chose land for peace bargaining.Your side 07:31  |  PETER SM 24/01/07
  386.   #360, Ms Kohn 07:35  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  387.   #361, Joseph E. 07:42  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  388.   there is an int`ly recognized crime of aparthied 08:12  |  brian 24/01/07
  389.   #372, Timothy 08:18  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  390.   Even the word Occupation is wrong 08:19  |  Efox 24/01/07
  391.   I Demand Entry To Saudi Arabia 08:22  |  Efox 24/01/07
  392.   #374, Shlom 08:24  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  393.   #372, Ms Kahn 08:26  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  394.   #369, Jacob Blues 08:31  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  395.   Hannah re: so-called Israel 08:41  |  Reuma Eldar 24/01/07
  396.   #361 So-called Hannah,you are a hypocrite 08:57  |  Hastaroth 24/01/07
  397.   Marilyn`s simplistic ways 09:03  |  CAL 24/01/07
  398.   #366 Bob from Pleasanton 09:03  |  Hastaroth 24/01/07
  399.   It`s not apartheid: it is WORSE! Part I 09:05  |  Nan 24/01/07
  400.   It`s not apartheid: it is WORSE! Part II 09:10  |  Nan 24/01/07
  401.   TIMOTHY.You have convinced yourself but not expat S.Africans 09:12  |  PETER SM 24/01/07
  402.   #360 CJK ICC convention 09:30  |  Michael N 24/01/07
  403.   #377, Tod 09:35  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  404.   #379, Whopper 09:37  |  Hannah 24/01/07
  405.   Johnboy #362 09:44  |  Zelkha 24/01/07
  406.   287; KUTW 09:45  |  flimflam 24/01/07
  407.   Hannah is in denial 09:47  |  sh 24/01/07
  408.   #383, Hanna 09:51  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 24/01