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Back to the preemptive strike
By Israel Harel

The outcome of the war in Lebanon raised existential fears, even among people with deep roots in the Israeli experience, people who have fought in our toughest wars. Many of them wonder: What happened to us? The question arises because from the military point of view, this was not a war for survival. And if this was the result of a fight against a small guerrilla organization, ask those who are concerned about the future, what will happen when we have to fight the Syrians, the Iranians, or an even broader Arab coalition?

Most of the answers so far have concerned tactical failures. This has been so ever since it became clear, during the war, that the military and political establishments had completely lost their way. These failures consisted of choosing erroneous methods of action, faulty logistics, intelligence failures and lack of talent in the senior military and political ranks. The Winograd Committee will also apparently try to provide answers in these areas.

But both the official investigators and others are totally ignoring the social and cultural misconceptions that were at the heart of the "military concept" that collapsed in Lebanon. Therefore, we must not rely on the assurances of senior military and political officials that if a war were to erupt with Syria or Iran, "everything would be different." Until people change their way of thinking, and until the leaders are replaced, what happened in Lebanon will happen again.

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If the prime minister and defense minister remain in office, and if most of the General Staff and the division commanders hold onto their positions, nothing will "be different." If we do not, in the spirit of the coming High Holy Days, observe the Jewish commandment of soul-searching, Lebanon's failures are liable to return, magnified. Unless the national security concept is altered, the operational thought patterns that prevailed in the Lebanon war, albeit perhaps with tactical and organizational improvements, will continue to dictate our mode of fighting, even in a war of survival against Iran. And there is widespread agreement that such a war will take place in the not so distant future.

The second Lebanon war was a few years overdue, mainly due to a perceived lack of legitimacy, which has constrained Israel for more than three decades. We ourselves gave up the doctrine that once formed the basis of Israel's security concept, and of our lives: the right to strike preemptively.

Because political correctness has even taken over military thought, we have placed the right to execute preemptive strikes outside the bounds of legitimate discourse - and certainly of legitimate civilian discourse. This began with our failure to react in 1969, following the cease-fire in the War of Attrition, when the Egyptians moved their surface-to-air missiles closer to the Suez Canal, in violation of the signed agreement. The catastrophic repercussions of this lack of reaction were evident in 1973. It continued in the Yom Kippur War, when Golda Meir and Moshe Dayan refused to approve a preemptive aerial strike, even though it was already clear that a combined attack by Egypt and Syria was imminent.

This was also the main reason for Israel's lack of response during the last six years to Hezbollah's amassing of thousands of rockets, and to the attacks and kidnappings that took place prior to the most recent abduction. The perception of illegitimacy was one of the reasons for Israel's inaction during the last war as well, and for its inability to defeat even Hezbollah. This might also be the case if we were convinced, as we were on the eve of the Yom Kippur War, that Syria were about to attack. And it would be all the more true were we to allow Iran to attack first. Once again, the home front would pay the price, and to an extent that we have never previously encountered.

Unless we repent and mend our ways on this crucial issue - i.e. unless we return publicly, without inhibitions, to the preemptive strike doctrine - the most dangerous place for Jews to live in, and perhaps even to survive in, will be "the safe haven for Jews" - in other words, the State of Israel.

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  1.   Preemptive strike will never be allowed 10:46  |  Jessica 21/09/06
  2.   What drivel 10:48  |  Marilyn 21/09/06
  3.   Go ahead 10:52  |  Maral 21/09/06
  4.   safe heaven for jews when the Palestinians have their own state 11:06  |  Gaza Boy 21/09/06
  5.   absolutely-on one minor condition 11:13  |  light brigade 21/09/06
  6.   enter, Ha`aretz warmonger 11:20  |  Khalid 21/09/06
  7.   Does this idiot release that this would break the ceasefire? 11:24  |  Clickfool 21/09/06
  8.   dearest maral 11:27  |  hebrew-i-brew too 21/09/06
  9.   Israeli must start considering... 11:30  |  Ah 21/09/06
  10.   JESSICA AND THE MOON FAIRIES 11:33  |  paul harris 1 21/09/06
  11.   Israeli Paranoia again and again 11:36  |  Clever Guy 21/09/06
  12.   Maral, with a dick or vagina 11:43  |  Akiva Patysh 21/09/06
  13.   Really? is this extensio of Bush`s policy? 11:43  |  MARCO 21/09/06
  14.   to hebrew-i brew too :) 11:44  |  Maral 21/09/06
  15.   #2 Marilyn 11:45  |  ron 21/09/06
  16.   How Creative ! 11:51  |  Karim 21/09/06
  17.   To ClickFOOL: The “cease-fire” is broken daily 11:57  |  Jonathan S 21/09/06
  18.   A question 12:01  |  Michael II 21/09/06
  19.   marilyn what about "the palestinians starving 12:03  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  20.   back to preenptive strike 12:07  |  anti-zionist 21/09/06
  21.   israel harel and pre emptive strikes "yes" 12:08  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  22.   MARYLIN Re-arming,re-deploying and continuing to threaten Israel. 12:10  |  PETER SM 21/09/06
  23.   clickfool " he`d be the first to whine" 12:15  |  harzion 21/09/06
  24.   dreaming of days long gone by 12:18  |  Ernst 21/09/06
  25.   karim and middle east fantasies 12:22  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  26.   KHALID.Your side has had WMD`s for years. 12:28  |  PETER SM 21/09/06
  27.   Lets wait for america to strike Iran first. 12:32  |  Dror 21/09/06
  28.   pre-emptive 12:35  |  Wissam 21/09/06
  29.   Think Peace 12:40  |  Rami 21/09/06
  30.   # 17 U need someone to read for you REs.1701 12:41  |  Adel 21/09/06
  31.   TAKE IT OR THROW IT 12:41  |  AMISH 21/09/06
  32.   Back to Futility! 12:44  |  Bader Abu-Ghosh 21/09/06
  33.   Agree with Ah 12:58  |  Peter 21/09/06
  34.   i complete agree, the right for preemptive 12:59  |  cool 21/09/06
  35.   Preemptive strike is an open option , however 13:00  |  Joseph E . 21/09/06
  36.   Do we read the same articles I wonder? 13:01  |  Marilyn 21/09/06
  37.   Back to Futility! 13:10  |  Bader Abu-Ghosh 21/09/06
  38.   Dangerous waters 13:15  |  Jack 21/09/06
  39.   To Thucycides No. 25 - This Time Israel is Fooling Itself 13:16  |  Karim 21/09/06
  40.   The usual Israeli thinking 13:26  |  Natallie Durson 21/09/06
  41.   The Preemption Of The Preemption 13:28  |  Nanker Phelge 21/09/06
  42.   karim 13:28  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  43.   karim you continue to fool yourselves 13:32  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  44.   preemptive strike 13:32  |  Jacob 21/09/06
  45.   karim israel is a nation that defeats the whole arab world 13:36  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  46.   Remember Osirak ?? 13:37  |  Klaudia 21/09/06
  47.   No Right! 13:39  |  john of Jordan 21/09/06
  48.   Read more carefully 13:40  |  JES 21/09/06
  49.   Pre-emptive strikes without borders 13:43  |  sh 21/09/06
  50.   This is not true 13:47  |  Edith 21/09/06
  51.   to dirty mouth Akiva Patysh 13:47  |  john of Jordan 21/09/06
  52.   maral/ernst 13:48  |  hebe-rue light 21/09/06
  53.   Israel 13:49  |  Chaim Gorenstein 21/09/06
  54.   To Adel #30: The resolution is crystal clear 13:51  |  Jonathan S 21/09/06
  55.   Zero Sum 14:04  |  rich 21/09/06
  56.   thucy-dear 14:10  |  miss match 21/09/06
  57.   Karim don`t you remember? 14:11  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 21/09/06
  58.   By Preemptive Strikes Israel Will Not Survive this Decade 14:13  |  Arik 21/09/06
  59.   john of Jordan 14:13  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 21/09/06
  60.   To Marlin 14:14  |  CM 21/09/06
  61.   We interrupt this program.... 14:16  |  Ronnie Wolman 21/09/06
  62.   Karim 14:19  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 21/09/06
  63.   My Fears Exactly 14:22  |  Jane 21/09/06
  64.   N.DURSSON The usual Israel basher thinking. 14:25  |  PETER SM 21/09/06
  65.   Preemtive Strikes 14:27  |  Jay A Friedman 21/09/06
  66.   #53 to Israel 14:28  |  Boycott 21/09/06
  67.   to: Anti-Zionist. 14:31  |  john of Jordan 21/09/06
  68.   to: Anti-Zionist. 14:32  |  john of Jordan 21/09/06
  69.   Osirak 14:45  |  Clickfool 21/09/06
  70.   PETER SM 14:45  |  Fritz 21/09/06
  71.   There will be no preemptive on Iran from the US 14:50  |  George 21/09/06
  72.   And when the whizzbangs start falling on Haifa again... 14:51  |  Clickfool 21/09/06
  73.   Preempting a preemptive strike 15:01  |  Nadir 21/09/06
  74.   Hubris 15:01  |  Klas 21/09/06
  75.   To ClickFOOL #69: Osirak II 15:08  |  Jonathan S 21/09/06
  76.   To Margie in Tel-Aviv - About Cease Fire & Peace 15:09  |  Karim 21/09/06
  77.   Hug an Arab 15:11  |  Niall 21/09/06
  78.   clickfool it depends 15:14  |  harzion 21/09/06
  79.   To Thucycides - Don`t Panic 15:14  |  Karim 21/09/06
  80.   The Arabs Won! 15:27  |  Niall 21/09/06
  81.   To Fritz #70: A new Holocaust memorial? 15:40  |  Jonathan S 21/09/06
  82.   Pre-emptive Srikes 15:55  |  Turan 21/09/06
  83.   Wissam 16:02  |  Walid 21/09/06
  84.   MUST HIT CIVILIANS IF NECESSARY 16:13  |  ray 21/09/06
  85.   margie in tel aviv #62 16:14  |  Mona 21/09/06
  86.   Whew! With the world region as Our Enemy!? 16:16  |  Yaakov Sullivan 21/09/06
  87.   #29. Rami from Lebanon says "Think Peace" 16:20  |  Stephane Koskas 21/09/06
  88.   Fritz. 16:22  |  Peter S .M. 21/09/06
  89.   how about... 16:31  |  ravi 21/09/06
  90.   to all degenerates and Arabs in here what Harel 16:34  |  Sal 21/09/06
  91.   # 27 Dror. Lets wait for America to strike first?? 16:36  |  Kathy 21/09/06
  92.   Response to 66 16:43  |  Bruriah Sarah 21/09/06
  93.   rich # 55 That`s MAD 16:46  |  Jeff Northridge 21/09/06
  94.   Israel is back and here to stay...no worry, just be vigilant 16:46  |  David 21/09/06
  95.   #53 Congratulations Mr Gorenstein! 16:46  |  Tony Anthony 21/09/06
  96.   Pre-emptive the name of the game for all 16:47  |  rick 21/09/06
  97.   Israel Harel 16:51  |  Mordechai 21/09/06
  98.   To Dror, re: American first strike 16:55  |  Pope 21/09/06
  99.   karim i am amused by your illogical post 16:57  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  100.   karim 16:59  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  101.   preemptive 17:01  |  me 21/09/06
  102.   Mona 17:11  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 21/09/06
  103.   unless get out of territories & make peace 17:11  |  steve 21/09/06
  104.   Does Israel Crave Its Own Destruction? 17:12  |  Peace Train 21/09/06
  105.   So how are you going to pay for them all, Khalid? 17:14  |  Jacob Blues 21/09/06
  106.   Margie, regarding Mona.. 17:23  |  Maral 21/09/06
  107.   Preemptive strikes will doom Israel 17:35  |  the cohen brother 21/09/06
  108.   to Maral about Mona 17:35  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 21/09/06
  109.   International community 17:35  |  Ari 21/09/06
  110.   Last chance 17:42  |  Zafar 21/09/06
  111.   Khalid ...the whole western world 17:43  |  British academic 21/09/06
  112.   Yes, Margie.. 17:45  |  Maral 21/09/06
  113.   Oh, and one more thing Margie 17:50  |  Maral 21/09/06
  114.   Stephane Koskas, Rami 17:58  |  Walid 21/09/06
  115.   Sal 18:05  |  Walid 21/09/06
  116.   Harel is right, replace military policy doctrine of "Spin". 18:07  |  Bernard Ross 21/09/06
  117.   Preemption is not illegitimate, unattainable goals are. 18:10  |  Ben Gurion 21/09/06
  118.   Mona, Margie in Tel Aviv 18:12  |  Walid 21/09/06
  119.   Rami 18:13  |  Aya 21/09/06
  120.   Absolutely Good Idea 18:14  |  Mark G 21/09/06
  121.   Maral 18:15  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 21/09/06
  122.   # 45 thucydides. RATTLING THE CAGE,,,,, 18:16  |  Kathy 21/09/06
  123.   Adon Ben Gurion 18:19  |  Jasmine Murphy 21/09/06
  124.   Preemptive murder 18:23  |  Otz Chiim 21/09/06
  125.   Why do you need to fight. Focus on Peace genius 18:25  |  Iranian-American 21/09/06
  126.   To Everybody 18:30  |  Walid 21/09/06
  127.   kathy 18:34  |  thucydides 21/09/06
  128.   Pre emptive suicide 18:35  |  Sue Eeside 21/09/06
  129.   to 87 18:37  |  Amir 21/09/06
  130.   #122 Kathy is spinning 18:40  |  Boycott 21/09/06
  131.   Israel`s future at stake 18:42  |  Yossi 21/09/06
  132.   Clickfool the fool 18:49  |  Niall 21/09/06
  133.   Walid 18:51  |  Mona 21/09/06
  134.   Preemptive strike 18:52  |  Vitaly Katsnelson 21/09/06
  135.   Margie in Tel Aviv # 121 18:57  |  Mona 21/09/06
  136.   to magie of tel avive 19:25  |  jihad 21/09/06
  137.   to Mona from cairo in africa 19:34  |  Gaza Boy 21/09/06
  138.   To Thucycides No. 99 - This is How we Won 19:36  |  Karim 21/09/06
  139.   If you truly want to feel safe, then 19:36  |  Ziad 21/09/06
  140.   Let the war begin 19:37  |  maoriboy 21/09/06
  141.   British Academic #111 19:37  |  Gaza Mo 21/09/06
  142.   Jane 19:40  |  Danite 21/09/06
  143.   TO MONA 19:42  |  Mark G 21/09/06
  144.   premptive strike 19:42  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 21/09/06
  145.   Jane2 19:43  |  Danite 21/09/06
  146.   Maral#113 19:47  |  danite 21/09/06
  147.   they say that most Egyptian are originally Fharon 19:48  |  Gaza Boy 21/09/06
  148.   Ponderings on yet more criminal actions by a criminal entity 19:59  |  Hannah 21/09/06
  149.   #148, so-called Hannah 20:18  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 21/09/06
  150.   This is the the right way of thinking 20:22  |  Shalom Freedman 21/09/06
  151.   When has Israel abandoned preemptive strikes? 20:26  |  Joe 21/09/06
  152.   premption only delays, solves nothing 20:27  |  tadchase 21/09/06
  153.   Gaza Mo....thats exactly my point 20:31  |  British academic 21/09/06
  154.   Danite # 146 20:33  |  AF11 21/09/06
  155.   Gaza Mo...from Holland to Germany 20:36  |  British academic 21/09/06
  156.   Danite 20:38  |  AF11 21/09/06
  157.   For Niall, an optimist 20:42  |  Clickfool 21/09/06
  158.   Bringing the house down/uniting americans 21:03  |  British academic 21/09/06
  159.   Cipora Julianna Khohn 21:03  |  Walid 21/09/06
  160.   Pre-emtive Strikes 21:08  |  Gullible Cynic 21/09/06
  161.   AF11 Nonsense 21:12  |  Danite 21/09/06
  162.   Hanna 21:15  |  Walid 21/09/06
  163.   Let America strike first 21:18  |  hollingsworth 21/09/06
  164.   British but definitely NOTAcademic 21:22  |  Gaza Mo 21/09/06
  165.   Danite 21:33  |  Walid 21/09/06
  166.   Gaza Mo.....I`m not ACADEMIC because i dont agree with you 21:34  |  British academic 21/09/06
  167.   Danite - Unfortunately the Radicals Decide for Us 21:41  |  Jane 21/09/06
  168.   Gaza Mohammed 21:43  |  British Academic 21/09/06
  169.   Bombs away! 21:46  |  Stanley 21/09/06
  170.   Please go ahead 21:48  |  Cynic 21/09/06
  171.   For Hannah and Walid 21:51  |  Gullible Cynic 21/09/06
  172.   New year wishes (Jasmine Murphy #123) 21:52  |  Ben Gurion 21/09/06
  173.   walid 22:00  |  danite 21/09/06
  174.   #162, Whalid 22:06  |  Hannah 21/09/06
  175.   Get Real 22:11  |  Bimmer 21/09/06
  176.   In response to #1 & #2 22:11  |  Johnny 21/09/06
  177.   Jane 22:22  |  Danite 21/09/06
  178.   A more Practical Solution 22:23  |  Joel in Albany 21/09/06
  179.   hannah 22:25  |  me 21/09/06
  180.   Hannah: reality of criminal action 22:34  |  Mendel the Mean 21/09/06
  181.   gullible cynic 22:36  |  me 21/09/06
  182.   Hanna 22:44  |  Walid 21/09/06
  183.   Hannah remembers Palestine #174 22:45  |  Ari ben Yisrael 21/09/06
  184.   1.Jessica: Preemptive strike 22:46  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  185.   Bimmer 22:47  |  Walid 21/09/06
  186.   2.Marilyn drivel 22:48  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  187.   Ben Gurion Second try "Yallah Haaretz" 22:50  |  Danite 21/09/06
  188.   Hanah 22:52  |  me 21/09/06
  189.   4.Gaza Boy 22:53  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  190.   5.Khalid warmonger 22:56  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  191.   Mendel 22:56  |  me 21/09/06
  192.   6.Clickfool, this idiot 22:59  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  193.   Not too Smart 22:59  |  Jordan 21/09/06
  194.   177. Danite 23:02  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  195.   Pre emptive destruction of the planet 23:08  |  Edith 21/09/06
  196.   16Karim,How Creative ! 23:12  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  197.   #180, Mendel 23:13  |  Hannah 21/09/06
  198.   Ari ben yisrael 23:14  |  me 21/09/06
  199.   18. Michael II 23:16  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  200.   191. "me" 23:18  |  Mendel the Mean 21/09/06
  201.   Harel 23:26  |  kenzo 21/09/06
  202.   126. Walid 23:27  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  203.   151. Joe: also retaliation 23:35  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  204.   An ideology-induced paranoia 23:38  |  John 21/09/06
  205.   Turan 23:41  |  ChanahS 21/09/06
  206.   195 Edith :destruction of the planet 23:43  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  207.   Mona # 85 23:46  |  ChanahS 21/09/06
  208.   Israel Harel incitement! 23:49  |  Maureen Ann 21/09/06
  209.   37. Bader Abu-Ghosh: Back to Futility! 23:53  |  KUTW 21/09/06
  210.   104.Train Destruction 00:10  |  KUTW 22/09/06
  211.   Poland 00:36  |  isaac 22/09/06
  212.   karim 00:36  |  thucydides 22/09/06
  213.   karim and disarming hizb 00:39  |  thucydides 22/09/06
  214.   To KUTW (#209) From Bader Abu-Ghosh (#37) 00:48  |  Bader Abu-Ghosh 22/09/06
  215.   karim and the war 00:49  |  thucydides 22/09/06
  216.   to # 185 Walid: Waiting To Be Killed Is Not an Option 01:01  |  Bimmer 22/09/06
  217.   And with preemptive strikes... 01:09  |  Baruch Nili 22/09/06
  218.   preem strike 01:20  |  jose 22/09/06
  219.   To Walid et al. who hope the West doesn`t wake up. It`s too late 01:35  |  Bimmer 22/09/06
  220.   For ChanaS 01:52  |  Gullible Cynic 22/09/06
  221.   To Walid et al. We know what you did last summer 01:57  |  Bimmer 22/09/06
  222.   Hannah 02:36  |  bev 22/09/06
  223.   Maral #2 02:37  |  Harry D 22/09/06
  224.   why not preemtive PEACE 02:44  |  CHEEWAWA 22/09/06
  225.   To #51, et al 02:46  |  Harry D 22/09/06
  226.   Happy New Year (Danite #187) 03:13  |  Ben Gurion 22/09/06
  227.   # 130 Boycott. I WASN`T SPINNING BOTCOTT.AS FOR THE LAURELS... 03:20  |  Kathy 22/09/06
  228.   Nothing to do with pre-emptive strikes 03:45  |  Jake 22/09/06
  229.   war 03:58  |  Carol B. 22/09/06
  230.   The converse argument 04:04  |  Chris S 22/09/06
  231.   Hannah, you stole your name from us 04:08  |  Jake 22/09/06
  232.   PREEMPTIVE NONSENSE 04:20  |  JOJO 22/09/06
  233.   Cheewawa 04:44  |  Cynic 22/09/06
  234.   Israel has "the right to strike preemptively" ?? 05:08  |  Roger 22/09/06
  235.   Harel, put SOME boundaries on Israeli rights! 06:04  |  Johnboy 22/09/06
  236.   thucydides ...is a sore looser 06:24  |  g. raison 22/09/06
  237.   PREEMPTIVE PEACE 06:28  |  Lebanese 22/09/06
  238.   Tadchase, let`s hope they will listen 06:40  |  Ziad 22/09/06
  239.   preemptive process in steps only.... 06:53  |  Yossi Poopeek 22/09/06
  240.   forgotten fact: IAF warplane destroyed Zelzal missile in flight. 07:11  |  Yossi 22/09/06
  241.   karim 138 07:15  |  israel lover 22/09/06
  242.   Joseph E, are you still around? 07:19  |  Aussie RA 22/09/06
  243.   Joseph E, are you still around? 07:30  |  Aussie RA 22/09/06
  244.   Exactly Right 08:00  |  Major 22/09/06
  245.   Pre-emptive strikes 08:03  |  Gordon 22/09/06
  246.   Preempt what !! No way for dirty prempts 08:07  |  Simon 22/09/06
  247.   preemptive on Iran already working on Ahmadinejad.... 08:17  |  coolidge 22/09/06
  248.   Walid 08:30  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 22/09/06
  249.   To Hannah - #148 08:31  |  Gordon 22/09/06
  250.   To Margie in Tel Aviv 08:34  |  john of Jordan 22/09/06
  251.   A few simple practical questions ... 09:23  |  Jim 22/09/06
  252.   The flawed doctrine of pre-emption 10:24  |  Amoz 22/09/06
  253.   They wouldn`t be preemptive and Jim, 238, you partially right 10:26  |  David Teich 22/09/06
  254.   To all those Israel Haters 12:02  |  Jerry 22/09/06
  255.   Answer to the:A few simple practical questions ... 12:56  |  Akinyemi Olusegun 22/09/06
  256.   Back to the preemptive strike 19:26  |  Elmas 22/09/06
  257.   observations 23:15  |  rational thought 22/09/06
  258.   Bullseye! 14:36  |  Nathaniel 23/09/06
  259.   Preemptive strike by Iran 19:44  |  the third man 23/09/06
  260.   #1 So if we find out that Iran plans to erase Israel,completes.. 01:10  |  Haham me Bat Yam 24/09/06
  261.   Does This Idiot Have a Death Wish? 04:47  |  Rachael 24/09/06
  262.   Back to the preemptive strike 04:52  |  sam 24/09/06
  263.   Lots of theory...very little reality 09:01  |  B-rock 24/09/06
  264.   Mariulyn`s drivel 04:59  |  chnyok 25/09/06
  265.   Dror - US won`t hit Iran 05:21  |  chnyok 25/09/06
  266.   To Rami and his peace call. 05:25  |  chnyok 25/09/06
  267.   Chnyok and his military strategy 07:20  |  Johnboy 25/09/06
  268.   Harel, so right. Here`s the strike we need. 09:41  |  Ethan 25/09/06
  269.   Johnboy & military geography 03:59  |  chnyok 26/09/06
  270.   #269 Chnyok, totally clueless 10:50  |  Johnboy 26/09/06
  271.   Preemption 13:49  |  R. John 26/09/06
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