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'Rumors of my demise were premature' By Ari Shavit Tags: Israel news, ehud barak The meeting before the interview was no less interesting than the interview itself. It took place a few weeks ago in the defense minister's office in Tel Aviv. Outside a storm raged: Writer Amos Oz asserted that the Labor Party had concluded its historic mission, the media battered Ehud Barak mercilessly and the polls showed Labor getting the same number of seats as Meretz under Haim Oron: seven. In the oddest way, an election campaign that was supposed to focus on Kadima and its Ehud, turned into a campaign that zeroed in on Labor and its Ehud. Barak became the national punching bag. Nevertheless, in his office, Ehud Barak was cool and composed, as though ice flowed through his veins. He revealed no signs of distress, there was no anger in his voice. Even after a long day of work, he was in fine spirits. However, there was one difference: This time the most decorated soldier in Israel's history talked about himself. About how the unconditional warmth he received from his parents imbued him with self-confidence. About how as a teenager in a hiking group he discovered his navigation skills. About how, as a youthful soldier who did not even shave yet, he volunteered to lead an infantry company on a desert trek at night and how the mission's success marked his metamorphosis into "Ehud Barak." And about his feeling that a glass barrier now exists between the public and Ehud Barak - a barrier he wants to shatter. Whether people hate him or love him, he said, he wants them to at least know who they hate or love. Maybe it was a command that Barak gave himself: to be human. Maybe it was the new strategy he adopted: to achieve a political breakthrough by means of emotional empathy. But whatever the reason, this was a wholly new Barak: exposed, personal, self-critical. As though he himself were observing the phenomenon of Ehud Barak and trying to decipher it. As though he were trying to understand the sources of his strength and weakness. As though he had realized at this late date that the way to survive the fight of his life was not to charge ahead, but to withdraw, reflect, reveal. Three weeks later, his words looked a bit different. Kadima and Meretz had started to sink in the polls, while Labor began to recover. Clever campaign posters cropped up all over, declaring that Barak "is not trendy" and "is not your buddy" - but a leader. In the center of the living room in the famous apartment in Tel Aviv's luxurious Akirov Tower, the Labor Party chairman sat on a simple wooden chair, sipped whiskey and said he was optimistic. There was no way people would not see the truth in the end, he said. There was no way the public would not, finally, burst out of its virtual-reality bubble and see the true picture. After all, clouds are visible, gathering on the horizon. The first waves of the tsunami are already rolling onto the shore. Advertisement Ehud Barak, you are not trendy. "That's right. Everything we are saying in this campaign is true." You are not nice, not a buddy. "When I was told about the idea [for that campaign], I said: Go for it. Go further. Use the harshest feelings, the bluntest comments against me. I know I am under criticism. There is some sort of transparent barrier between me and the public. There is deep opposition to me and also to Labor. What I am saying is this: Are you angry at Barak? Fine. Angry at Labor? Fine. But don't punish yourselves because of that. In the final analysis, there is a country to be run. And a country is no game. So the question is not whether I am nice or chummy. When a plane has to be landed in a storm, you don't ask if there is someone nice here. Nor do you ask whether there is someone who looks like a pilot or talks like a pilot or once stood next to a pilot during a flight. You ask if there is a real pilot here. Not a nice guy, not a back-slapper - a pilot. Someone who knows how to land a plane even in a raging storm." You are inhuman, you are unfeeling. "I think people who know me well know I am human. But it's true that life put me in an environment of doing: I was placed on the ultimate track of getting things done under conditions of total uncertainty and high risk. In those places you do not look for love; perhaps you do not give love, either. The small group you lead at night across the enemy lines looks to you as the one who sees reality, knows the way, has the sangfroid to react in a fraction of a second and order others to do the proper thing. The group knows it faces mortal danger. Each person knows he is liable to be buried at any second. Sometimes there are those who really do get buried. So the question each member of the group asks is not whether he loves the commander who is leading the force, or whether the commander is a nice guy. The question is whether he will fulfill the mission and bring them home. In my opinion, that is the question the citizens of Israel have to ask themselves now: Who will fulfill the mission and bring the people home? "Many people want to live with the illusion that we are Holland or Denmark or Sweden. But we are not. We live in a cruel environment in which the weak are shown no mercy. Accordingly, what is needed in this place and at this time is a leader who has a certain combination of qualities, a certain record of experience and coolheadedness. The question that every Israeli woman and man has to ask is the same one the patient asks before open-heart surgery. Not whether the surgeon is pleasant or empathetic, but whether he has performed surgery before and whether he knows how to perform surgery. Life and death depend on the answer to that question." 'I can be emotional' You lack emotional intelligence. "I don't know what that means." You do not project feelings and are not sensitive to feelings. "I do not lack feelings. Between me and those close to me there is hugging, listening and mutual support. It's like that with the members of my family and also with Nili [Priel, Barak's wife]. If you promise not to tell anyone, I will reveal to you that my heart can be broken by unrequited love. That happened. Certainly with my daughters or at my father's grave, I can be emotional to the point of tears. Even a good movie can move me to tears ... "But today I understand that political activity requires that one strengthen people and reinforce them. I try, but do not always succeed. I also learned that leadership has to have an emotional dimension. That is part of politics and part of public life. But I admit to being partially blind to those things. It is a blindness stemming from the fact that I never needed them." You are an immodest, arrogant, insensitive hedonist from the Akirov Towers. Not to mention Taurus - the public relations firm your wife founded. "Regarding Taurus, my wife Nili worked in public relations for years. She started a company in her field, with no connection whatsoever to my activity as a minister, and she reported on it to the appropriate authorities. When there was public criticism of her actions, Nili closed the company immediately. In retrospect, perhaps the criticism could have been expected, but the whole thing was done in good faith and within the boundaries of the law. "Also, my parents' room on the kibbutz was the size of this corner of the living room. There was no toilet, no water faucet - nothing. A naked room with a bed, a table, two chairs and a closet. So when people talk about me as a kibbutz 'prince,' as a kid who had it all, I laugh. I remember how much I wanted a soccer ball ... There was privation. There was no emotional or intellectual distress, but there was physical want. And it did not end with childhood. "It's possible the privation I grew up with made me want to compensate myself. After 36 years in the army and six years in politics and the government, I enjoyed being a businessman. There were other factors, too: the changes in my private life, concern for my daughters. And maybe also curiosity about a world that resembles the realm of war, in that it consists of struggle and uncertainty, and action against rivals that are not always visible. "If you are asking about this apartment - the political price I paid for it is even higher than the economic price. But I bought it in good faith ... There was a period when out of every dollar I made, 52 cents went to the government and 48 cents to Alfred Akirov. I admit I did not take into account that an apartment like this would become a symbol. In retrospect, it looks as though buying an apartment in the Akirov Towers was a mistake." You are not civil-oriented, you are fixated on security. The public wants a civil leadership, and you were and still are a general. "I do not feel any less of a civilian than [Likud leader Benjamin] Netanyahu or [Kadima leader Tzipi] Livni. In what way are they more civil-oriented than I? What have they done more as civilians? I do not see reality through a gunsight. On the contrary: I think that anyone who has experience in managing forces is better acquainted with the limits of force. In the conditions of Sweden or Finland, security experience is of limited value; in Israel it is of tremendous value. That does not mean that a very experienced person with a stable character and rich life-experience cannot handle national security even if he lacks a military background. But I think that anyone who lacks professional security understanding is more vulnerable to hitches. We saw this in the past few years. People without experience made peculiar decisions that led to serious consequences." 'Arafat is dead' You are not a true person of the left. You are a right-winger in disguise. You first destroyed the peace and now speak in the name of peace and ask the peace camp to support you. "There is something unfinished between the left and me. People are still angry about what happened in 2000 [the failed Camp David meeting]. The belief in peace with the Palestinians was a very central part of their way of life ... So it is hard for them to accept the fact that I went to [Palestinian leader Yasser] Arafat and found that he did not want to solve the problem of 1967, but [rather that] of 1947. Arafat is dead, but people are still angry at me. They do not forgive me for exposing a truth that toppled the secular 'religion' of the deep left. "The truth is that I was a very intimate partner to the Oslo process. I was the first to meet a Syrian chief of staff face to face. I was the one who was originally behind the 'Rabin deposit' [a commitment by the late prime minister to withdraw from the Golan Heights in return for normalization with Syria]. I formulated it in English with Yitzhak. Afterward, as prime minister, I offered the Syrians the most far-reaching proposals and went to Camp David to reach peace with the Palestinians. When I returned from the summit meeting with Arafat, even Shimon Peres and [former Labor MK] Avraham Burg said I had gone too far. So I have no regrets on that score. I know that I did a lot more for peace than all my critics on the left, who in the best case knew how to speak well. But I did everything I did with open eyes. Not out of a religious belief and not out of dogmatic blindness. I worked from a position of strength, self-confidence and an awareness of reality. That is why in the end I looked the public in the eye and spoke the truth. "I continue to believe that we have a supreme historic responsibility to do everything possible to achieve peace. Without two states for two peoples and regional peace, Israel will find itself in an increasingly acute plight. But I am working to achieve peace in the real world, not an imaginary one. More than anyone else, I am active in the attempt to achieve peace with the Syrians. The director of Military Intelligence, the chief of staff and I, in contrast to others, are pushing for a settlement with the Syrians. We are the ones who are saying that we must not wait, that we must move ahead, take risks. At the same time, together with Shimon Peres, I am initiating regional peace. I do not accept the Saudi plan up front, but say that we have to put forward a comprehensive Israeli plan that will refer to it. That is why I do not accept the criticism you are quoting. There is no person alive who has done more than me to reach peace with the Syrians and with the Palestinians." You are irrelevant. Amos Oz declared that you and your party have concluded their historic mission. "I have known Amos Oz since he was a youngster of 22 and I was 16. The first time I heard him, I was riveted by his superb Hebrew. I have read all his books, some of them with deep emotion. What he said hurt me. I think there was something unfair in what he said. Amos is a great writer, but not a historian. His statement was intended to serve Meretz, the party he has supported for the past 20 years. But the only thing that will happen as a result of that call is that [former Labor MK] Uzi Baram might push his son, Nir, to enter the Knesset, and a group of people whom I respect will get their good friends Tzali [Reshef] and Gili [Gilad Sher] into the Knesset. Both of them worked with me. But ... will they get even one person from the right-wing bloc to switch his vote to the left-wing bloc? "Regrettably, Amos Oz's act will not stop [Benjamin] Netanyahu's right wing and will serve the right wing of Shaul Mofaz, Tzachi Hanegbi and Ze'ev Boim. There is no substitute for Labor as a center-left party that speaks not only to north Tel Aviv, but also to a spectrum of populations across the country." You are not courageous. You were brave in battle and brave in 2000, but after the trauma you underwent, you became cautious and hesitant. If it were up to you, Syria would now have a nuclear reactor. "I will not comment on particular operations that were or were not carried out during my term as defense minister. But I can say that in the past two years, too, on the one hand I identified opportunities and pointed them out, and on the other hand I identified obstacles and pointed them out. There are situations when even an action which is right to carry out should be carried out differently from the way things seem at first glance. Sometimes an action which seems as if it must be executed tomorrow is better carried out the day after tomorrow or in another two months. The combination of daring and judiciousness is what makes all the difference between right and wrong moves. There are situations in which it is right to wait, well prepared, and others when it is right to attack." For more, click here Bookmark to del.icio.us   Knesset express Rightist party offers Jonathan Pollard top spot on Knesset list. Mahmoud's Gospel Ahmadinejad: If Jesus were alive, he would stand in opposition to U.S.   1.   Somehow, I agree with Barak. He, alone, makes complete sense. 19:41  |  S 19/12/08   2.   Ari Shavit Truth is Barak is delusional 21:02  |  Judea 19/12/08   3.   ISRAELI LEADERS 02:40  |  REUVEN NOF 20/12/08

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