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Last update - 09:44 23/11/2008
Video / Prof. Avi Shlaim: Settlements turned Israel into apartheid state
By Haaretz Staff and Fora.tv
Tags: Avi Shlaim, Zionism 

British-Israeli Professor Avi Shlaim joined a handful of academics in London earlier this month to debate the future of Zionism, in a panel entitled "Israel at 60: What happened to the Zionist dream?"

Shlaim, a historian of the Arab-Israeli conflict at Oxford University, made headlines last year when he decided to speak at an Oxford Union debate in favor of the motion, "This house believes that one state is the only solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict."
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But Shlaim, an opponent of campaigns pursued by some of his British colleagues to boycott Israeli universities, has always been a fervent supporter of the two-state solution, a stance he repeated in this month's event, which was organized by the Institute of Ideas.

He continues, he said, to believe in Israel's legitimacy to exist within its pre-1967 borders, but "rejects uncompromisingly the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line."

In his talk, entitled "Obsession with Territory Post-1967," Shlaim blasts the settlements, which he says have turned Israel into an apartheid state, as the primary source of failure for peace efforts with the Palestinians.

Shlaim believes Zionism was derailed from its course after the Six-Day war, when its universalist principles were replaced with "religious messianism and secular nationalism." Israel must give up land, he says, not just as a concession to the Palestinians, but because "a people that oppresses another cannot itself remain free."

To view the entire video, visit

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      1.   No Professor the occupation is the Result of Arab Apartheid. 01:47  |  PETER SM 21/11/08
      2.   Better to be an apartheid state than a dead state 07:27  |  judith 21/11/08
      3.   stomach -turning lecture 07:30  |  judith 21/11/08
      4.   Wish Avi Shlaim would make aliya... 08:00  |  Esther 21/11/08
      5.   Something that is almost totally overlooked. 08:43  |  Mario Sala 21/11/08
      6.   The less said the better 08:57  |  David 21/11/08
      7.   why is it academics are so stupid 10:46  |  very puzzled 21/11/08
      8.   Bravo! Awesome TRUTH from Prof. Shalim! America, AIPAC take note 10:59  |  Ivar 21/11/08
      9.   Settlement expansion has ceased to be in Israels interest 11:15  |  Natallie Durson 21/11/08
      10.   He`s a court Jew,like a "former Israeli" Göran Rosenberg here 11:16  |  Absolute Sweden 21/11/08
      11.   Mario #2 - smth else is overlooked 11:21  |  Michael 21/11/08
      12.   Israelis are the black african orginial inhabitants then 11:25  |  Erik 21/11/08
      13.   How is it apartheid: Arabs live in Israel 11:28  |  Ilan 21/11/08
      14.   a people thet oppresses another cannot remain free 11:32  |  Jean La Salle 21/11/08
      15.   #2 Mario Salo 11:35  |  Boycott 21/11/08
      16.   Prof Shlaim 11:47  |  Mickey 21/11/08
      17.   "The key problem is the OCCUPATION" 11:51  |  Fritrz T. 21/11/08
      18.   PETER SM what are you on? 11:53  |  Roo 21/11/08
      19.   One honest thing in his talk 12:34  |  mg 21/11/08
      20.   ETERNAL DIVINE WAR, 12:38  |  drdanielito 21/11/08
      21.   Mario Sala 12:40  |  lady from USA 21/11/08
      22.   professor is dumb 12:42  |  paulo2005 21/11/08
      23.   Ivar 12:43  |  lady from USA 21/11/08
      24.   If all the Gentiles would leave the land of Israel 12:48  |  lady from USA 21/11/08
      25.   Israel,s true enemies--petersm/mariesala/absolute sweden 13:06  |  Labhras 21/11/08
      26.   PETER SM-needle stuck in groove 13:06  |  Roo 21/11/08
      27.   # 5 Hilary Clinton `forcing peace on Israel` ? 13:10  |  Keith 21/11/08
      28.   Akpartheid state 13:11  |  Tom Gerber 21/11/08
      29.   Grown up blame games 13:14  |  sam 21/11/08
      30.   an old truth 13:14  |  dani.a 21/11/08
      31.   False comparisons to SA apartheid days 13:29  |  Israeli grandma 21/11/08
      32.   Wonder how much $ you got paid to say that? 13:33  |  D 21/11/08
      33.   profesor 13:52  |  moshe 21/11/08
      34.   SHLAIM SCHLEMIEL 13:52  |  ALAN KRUGER 21/11/08
      35.   The ignorant Prof. 14:05  |  Akram Zekaria 21/11/08
      36.   Roo 14:19  |  lady from USA 21/11/08
      37.   Conflict is not territorial, it`s about Israel`s existence! 14:23  |  Joel Stein 21/11/08
      38.   Labhras 14:26  |  lady from USA 21/11/08
      39.   The Heartbreak of Avi Shlam 14:27  |  Gideon Reader 21/11/08
      40.   "If all the gentiles would leave..." 14:27  |  Ari Mann 21/11/08
      41.   Boycott 14:32  |  lady from USA 21/11/08
      42.   Jean La Salle 14:38  |  lady from USA 21/11/08
      43.   #3 very puxxled re sexual apartheid 14:39  |  Chris Linthwaite 21/11/08
      44.   To call Shlaim Israeli is like calling Lord Haw-Haw Brit war hero 15:03  |  Jack G 21/11/08
      45.   Michael 7 15:11  |  ChanahS 21/11/08
      46.   Michael 7 15:11  |  ChanahS 21/11/08
      47.   Have you noticed 15:15  |  Chris Linthwaite 21/11/08
      48.   Jean de Salle 10 15:18  |  ChanahS 21/11/08
      49.   Those who cannot do, teach 15:33  |  Joe Frazier 21/11/08
      50.   Oxford: academic smarts - no, political correctness - yes 15:47  |  Joe Sittizen 21/11/08
      51.   Chris Linthwaite #39 16:38  |  Mickey 21/11/08
      52.   Living amoungst anti-Semites 16:43  |  Gilad 21/11/08
      53.   #21 is labhras an idiot or only pretending to be one ? 16:47  |  very puzzled 21/11/08
      54.   #42 Joe Sitizzen 16:47  |  Chris Linthwaite 21/11/08
      55.   Ya so shrink your G-d given borders even more and be annihilated. 16:52  |  Jordan 21/11/08
      56.   Naallie`s Dream World 16:55  |  Brad 21/11/08
      57.   Israel reason to exist is gone. 16:58  |  Sammy 21/11/08
      58.   Oh Jean: You So Miss the Point 17:01  |  Brad 21/11/08
      59.   JEWISH REFUGEES Must be Compensated in LAND & Finances 17:11  |  Linda Rivera 21/11/08
      60.   Jew-HATERS DECEIVE for Expansionist Islam. Already ARAB Pal State 17:13  |  Linda Rivera 21/11/08
      61.   LAND or PEACE 17:13  |  honestywithoutmercy 21/11/08
      62.   Apartheid///Settlements 17:15  |  Joe 21/11/08
      63.   "Apartheid" state with Arabs in the Israeli government??? 17:39  |  Jordan 21/11/08
      64.   CARTER SAID THAT EARLIER THAN PROF. SHLAIM 17:39  |  indrajaya 21/11/08
      65.   Hahahah...Natalie has once again embarrassed herself... 17:49  |  Jordan 21/11/08
      66.   Excellent article #50 Linda....Exactly right... 17:52  |  James 21/11/08
      67.   these academics dont live in the real world 18:09  |  zionist forever 21/11/08
      68.   Prof is right: Israel=Apartheid=Occupation=War 18:14  |  Realist 21/11/08
      69.   LADY from US re: all gentiles leave WB 18:16  |  KR 21/11/08
      70.   A people oppressing another cannot remain free 18:17  |  Gorden 21/11/08
      71.   settelments are the best choice for palestinians 18:27  |  just a thouth 21/11/08
      72.   49 18:42  |  zionist forever 21/11/08
      73.   Lady from USA + Rigthwing Ignorance 18:47  |  Suspious 21/11/08
      74.   #47 very puzzled sure is. 18:58  |  Labhras 21/11/08
      75.   Avi Shlaim Iraqi SETTLER in Oxford 19:29  |  Realist 21/11/08
      76.   RE: chris Linthwaite #42 19:32  |  judith 21/11/08
      77.   Leftists are mainly talking to themselves. 19:35  |  Chaim 21/11/08
      78.   #49 Mickey 19:37  |  Bryan 21/11/08
      79.   "primary soure of failure" 19:40  |  Arie 21/11/08
      80.   Israel is Already a Bi-National State 19:45  |  Binyamin 21/11/08
      81.   Can you imagine 19:45  |  Arie 21/11/08
      82.   Arabs live in Israel.... 20:11  |  Palestinian Brit 21/11/08
      83.   Apartheid? Lady from USA 20:13  |  Palestinian Brit 21/11/08
      84.   Mickey in Sydney...obviously far, far away.... 20:17  |  Palestinian Brit 21/11/08
      85.   Lady from the USA - where she came from? 20:21  |  Palestinian Brit 21/11/08
      86.   #72 Judith 20:41  |  Chris Linthwaite 21/11/08
      87.   Palestinian brit 20:44  |  SDHD 21/11/08
      88.   Dead Horse Beaters 20:45  |  bronxite10 21/11/08
      89.   Letting Palestinian Brit in on a BIG SECRET 20:49  |  SDHD 21/11/08
      90.   British-Israeli Professor confirming former US President 21:29  |  Gobaba 21/11/08
      91.   Israel has met the criteria 21:39  |  Michael N 21/11/08
      92.   all non-jews are antisemite 21:43  |  al 21/11/08
      93.   Big Deal - Another Yordim Jerk Academic 21:50  |  Tod Zuckerman 21/11/08
      94.   who cares, Linda 22:07  |  Al 21/11/08
      95.   Only a sick mind could compare the horrors of Zionism 22:09  |  SAfrican 21/11/08
      96.   No 87. Immigration 22:28  |  Palestinian Brit 21/11/08
      97.   African`s delusions 22:46  |  SDHD 21/11/08
      98.   If we had Zionism we wouldn`t need other freedoms 23:14  |  Black South African 21/11/08
      99.   SDHD - Life in Gaza 23:24  |  Palestinian Brit 21/11/08
      100.   Israeli "Apartheid" 23:35  |  Ruben 21/11/08
      101.   Israel is not an Apartheid state,but the occupied territories are 23:39  |  Swiss (Dino) 21/11/08
      102.   Black South Africa....does Tutu agree with you? 23:40  |  Palestinian Brit 21/11/08
      103.   #98 Black South African 00:17  |  Boycott 22/11/08
      104.   SDHD - read it again.... 00:19  |  Palestinian Brit 22/11/08
      105.   #101 swiss dino is correct Jordan is an apartheid state 00:25  |  very puzzled 22/11/08
      106.   Bronxite10, why Palestinians resist the colonial project 00:34  |  Ben Alofs 22/11/08
      107.   Swiss (Dino) not occupied - disputed 00:46  |  David Israel 22/11/08
      108.   Al from Philly 00:51  |  John 22/11/08
      109.   #106 David Israel 01:00  |  Bryan 22/11/08
      110.   Bryan#78 01:03  |  Mickey 22/11/08
      111.   Tutu is deranged, a laughing stock here 01:09  |  Black South African 22/11/08
      112.   Palestinian Brit 01:16  |  Mickey 22/11/08
      113.   102, 103, you patronize me and are both racists 01:20  |  Black South African 22/11/08
      114.   Palestinian Brit`s "Life in Gaza" 01:23  |  SDHD 22/11/08
      115.   Tutu`s barbed wire by Palestinian Brit 01:24  |  SDHD 22/11/08
      116.   Palestinian Brit -- write better to be understood better 01:27  |  SDHD 22/11/08
      117.   David Israel - better off? By whose standard? 01:37  |  Palestinian Brit 22/11/08
      118.   Israeli citizenship 01:47  |  Palestinian Brit 22/11/08
      119.   #110 Mickey 01:48  |  Bryan 22/11/08
      120.   Bryan You said it yourself 01:49  |  David Israel 22/11/08
      121.   #106 Ben Aloofs, Remember Camp David? 02:10  |  bronxite10 22/11/08
      122.   David Israel #107 "not occupied - disputed" 02:15  |  examiner 22/11/08
      123.   #82 Palestinian Brit. You know nothing of history. 02:16  |  Chaim 22/11/08
      124.   Palestinian Brit 02:46  |  David Israel 22/11/08
      125.   Mickey 02:55  |  John 22/11/08
      126.   # 120 David Israel, actually Palestinian Brit already said..... 03:06  |  Swiss (Dino) 22/11/08
      127.   Black South African who isn`t even Black 03:09  |  Yellow Chinese man 22/11/08
      128.   David Israel #107 "not occupied - disputed" 03:19  |  examiner 22/11/08
      129.   Something that is overlooked 03:19  |  Mike 22/11/08
      130.   Avi Shlaim is a Devil`s advocate as is Sternhell 03:25  |  Joseph.E 22/11/08
      131.   Yellow Chinese Man is right about Black South African Man 03:26  |  White European Man 22/11/08
      132.   Swiss (Dino) 03:32  |  David Israel 22/11/08
      133.   Examiner - Legaly it is disputed 03:34  |  David Israel 22/11/08
      134.   David Israel? occupied and disputed by the illegal occupation 03:59  |  according to UN 22/11/08
      135.   Brains and Presidents agree, Israel an Apartheid state 04:08  |  Concerned citizen 22/11/08
      136.   #120 David Israel 04:22  |  Bryan 22/11/08
      137.   As if White and Yellow are White and Yellow and Apartheid questio 04:38  |  Black South African 22/11/08
      138.   David Israel relies on the barracks lawyer for legal advice... 05:44  |  BBSNews 22/11/08
      139.   All those contesting the facts 06:04  |  David Israel 22/11/08
      140.   `67 Borders; An Apparent Starting Point 06:13  |  Gray 22/11/08
      141.   Palestinian Brit and "being better off" 07:09  |  SDHD 22/11/08
      142.   Palestinian Brit and citizenship 07:10  |  SDHD 22/11/08
      143.   Yes David Israel, the facts *are* clear... 07:38  |  BBSNews 22/11/08
      144.   John #125 07:55  |  Miki 22/11/08
      145.   The Zionists supported S.A Apartheid 08:30  |  ELIAS KHOURY 22/11/08
      146.   #138 mr bbs news and barrack room law is precisely what he himsel 09:19  |  very puzzled 22/11/08
      147.   Linda Rivera #60 hit it right on the head 09:26  |  Dan Livni 22/11/08
      148.   SDHD - not much of a response... 09:33  |  Palestinian Brit 22/11/08
      149.   Living in Londonistan! 09:34  |  Harry 22/11/08
      150.   Chaim. Prove the Jews were here first 09:36  |  Palestinian Brit 22/11/08
      151.   Black South African 09:40  |  Palestinian Brit 22/11/08
      152.   to 98, the master of irony (either that or a fake South African) 10:23  |  SAfrican 22/11/08
      153.   to #123 aka 1000-year-old Chaim 10:36  |  Paul 22/11/08
      154.   145# Khoury why you keep blaming South Africa ? 10:41  |  Akram Zekaria 22/11/08
      155.   #140 Gray: totally agree with you 10:53  |  Paul 22/11/08
      156.   to 141, the master too of irony 10:58  |  SAfrican 22/11/08
      157.   # 1 to peters m re: a boat missed 12:33  |  eric 22/11/08
      158.   David Israel #133 No it is not. 12:58  |  examiner 22/11/08
      159.   Thank you Mickey! No.51 13:10  |  lady from USA 22/11/08
      160.   Elias Khoury,an appartheid arab male,Sweden also supported S.A 13:15  |  Absolute Sweden 22/11/08
      161.   Palestinian Brit/ where I come from 13:24  |  lady from USA 22/11/08
      162.   Mickey again 13:31  |  lady from USA 22/11/08
      163.   SDHD - running water...are you sure? 14:04  |  Palestinian Brit 22/11/08
      164.   #47 Have you noticed... 14:11  |  Jasper 22/11/08
      165.   #Sammy in Amman 14:21  |  Jasper 22/11/08
      166.   Miki 15:20  |  John 22/11/08
      167.   SDHD #141 preposterous claims 15:35  |  examiner 22/11/08
      168.   Palestinian Brit (#96) Palestinians & Greater Syria 15:39  |  Gil 22/11/08
      169.   Palestinian Brit (#150) Wants a Proof @2 15:48  |  Gil 22/11/08
      170.   Miss Durson wrong again 15:49  |  arik 22/11/08
      171.   # 151 And Egypt kills the black Africans! 15:52  |  Petra 22/11/08
      172.   Apartheid dust finally settling on Israel 16:22  |  Observer 22/11/08
      173.   Palestinian Brit (#96) & Long before Israel 17:02  |  Gil 22/11/08
      174.   David Israel #133 No it is not. 17:05  |  examiner 22/11/08
      175.   Apartheid 17:22  |  Michael 22/11/08
      176.   very puzzled should read the treaty... 18:05  |  BBSNews 22/11/08
      177.   You wouldn`t know Apartheid if it hit you with a 10 foot pole 18:06  |  Black South African 22/11/08
      178.   #92 Tod Zuckerman Another Yered especially from England eh? 18:19  |  K 22/11/08
      179.   To the Black South African I say Kudos to You. 18:22  |  K 22/11/08
      180.   #158 Jasper.To Sammy.Forgive him,he forgot that.. 18:30  |  K 22/11/08
      181.   OBSERVER (#165) Yes, Yes, Apartheid 18:49  |  Gil 22/11/08
      182.   #1 Peter SM I say This to The Yered Professor In UK. 19:27  |  Kathy 22/11/08
      183.   It`s just temporary Professor 19:37  |  Mark Lincoln 22/11/08
      184.   Now Palestinian Brit resorts to lying 19:54  |  SDHD 22/11/08
      185.   Examiner, a preposterous person 19:55  |  SDHD 22/11/08
      186.   To all here.Time We Israelis end apartheid/Discrimination of arab 20:00  |  Israeli 22/11/08
      187.   another academic fool 21:06  |  Mark 22/11/08
      188.   Chris Linthwaite (#47) & Have you noticed 21:34  |  Gil 22/11/08
      189.   Kathy (#172) 21:59  |  Gil 22/11/08
      190.   ELIAS KHOURY Me thinks you are a racist.You judge on skin colour 22:04  |  PETER SM 22/11/08
      191.   SDHD #175 more preposterous claims 22:05  |  examiner 22/11/08
      192.   PAL BRIT There is response at all from you re your racist lie 22:07  |  PETER SM 22/11/08
      193.   #161 GIL THE BLIND 22:10  |  ELIAS KHOURY 22/11/08
      194.   Gil #162 Arab conquests from Jews? 22:13  |  ELIAS KHOURY 22/11/08
      195.   Occupation? 22:50  |  Joseph Faith 22/11/08
      196.   Chris Linthwaite (#47) & Have you noticed 23:17  |  Gil 22/11/08
      197.   APARTHEID 00:10  |  YOYO 23/11/08
      198.   165# Observer : Get it down your `throat` 00:16  |  Akram Zekaria 23/11/08
      199.   KATHY What drives Shlaims disinformation?By a former classmate 00:29  |  PETER SM 23/11/08
      200.   "Jewish Rambo" = postmodern anti-Semitic Shylock 00:30  |  Fortuna Benmayor 23/11/08
      201.   SDHD #175 more preposterous claims 00:54  |  examiner 23/11/08
      202.   173# Mark Lincoln: Your ignorance is not just temporary. 01:16  |  Akram Zekaria 23/11/08
      203.   YOYO A mindless slogan,patently inapplicable but useful idiots 01:16  |  PETER SM 23/11/08
      204.   EXAMINER How do the World bank know the final future borders? 01:46  |  PETER SM 23/11/08
      205.   SDHD #175 more preposterous claims 01:52  |  examiner 23/11/08
      206.   John #159 02:07  |  Mickey 23/11/08
      207.   LEFTIST PROFESSORS TURN ISRAEL INTO PRO-ARAB DICTATORSHIP 02:11  |  Herry Mann 23/11/08
      208.   Misuse of the word 02:28  |  Mark Lincoln 23/11/08
      209.   For Yellow Chinese Man, White European & Palbbrit 02:30  |  Joe Moer 23/11/08
      210.   Lincoln`s misuse of reality 04:01  |  SDHD 23/11/08
      211.   Mark Lincoln #188 04:06  |  Mickey 23/11/08
      212.   Mickey in Sydney 04:59  |  Mark Lincoln 23/11/08
      213.   Whose land? 05:49  |  Dudka 23/11/08
      214.   #7, very puzzled: "why is it academics are so stupid" 06:45  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 23/11/08
      215.   I totally disagree Mark Lincoln on apartheid... 07:05  |  BBSNews 23/11/08
      216.   Mark Lincoln #202 07:07  |  Mickey 23/11/08
      217.   #128, examiner 07:11  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 23/11/08
      218.   Ivar #8 07:12  |  Mickey 23/11/08
      219.   Now Cipora hates universities? 07:16  |  BBSNews 23/11/08
      220.   Mark Lincoln Hamas& Fatah both have current take ALL 07:25  |  PETER SM 23/11/08
      221.   EXAMINER.The eight universities in Gaza & West Bank,after 1967 07:37  |  PETER SM 23/11/08
      222.   Examiner -- still a preposterous individual 07:42  |  SDHD 23/11/08
      223.   #150 P. Brit. Do some reading beyond Fatah/Hamas propaganda. 09:12  |  Chaim 23/11/08
      224.   Cipora Julianna Kohn #128 12:47  |  examiner 23/11/08
      225.   #214 C.J.K An Excerpt/observati which Peter SM informed me 16:07  |  KATHY 23/11/08
      226.   You should read Slaim´s book "The Iron Wall" 16:17  |  PS 23/11/08
      227.   SDHD-"it`s true coz I said so" 17:20  |  examiner 23/11/08
      228.   ELIAS KHOURY (#193) My Dear Elias let me tell you a little secret 17:43  |  Gil 23/11/08
      229.   ELIAS KHOURY (#193) & Percentages 17:59  |  Gil 23/11/08
      230.   ELIAS KHOURY (#193) & Percentages 18:00  |  Gil 23/11/08
      231.   #146 very puzzled..Well Puzzle no more.Because.. 18:55  |  Israeli 23/11/08
      232.   SDHD-"it`s true coz I said so" 19:03  |  examiner 23/11/08
      233.   PETER SM 19:04  |  examiner 23/11/08
      234.   ELIAS KHOURY (#193) My Dear Elias let me tell you a little secret 20:05  |  Gil 23/11/08
      235.   Avi Shlaim and "Apartheid" Israel 15:37  |  I. Barr MD 26/11/08
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