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Last update - 00:37 01/09/2008
Erekat: Abbas told Olmert PA won't accept interim peace deal
By Aluf Benn, Barak Ravid and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondents and News Agencies
Tags: Mideast peace process 

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas rejected Israel's idea of an interim peace agreement at summit with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert Sunday, a Palestinian negotiator said, insisting on an all-or-nothing approach that virtually ruled out an accord by a January target date.

The latest meeting between Abbas and Olmert was their shortest, lasting less than an hour. Before the talks in Jerusalem, Olmert's aides had said earlier the premier hoped the Palestinians would sign a document outlining any agreements reached with Israel before he leaves office.

But Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said Abbas flatly rejected that at the brief summit on Sunday.
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"We want an agreement to end the occupation and establish an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital," Erekat told The Associated Press. "President Abbas told Olmert that we will not be part of an interim or shelf agreement," he said. "Either we agree on all issues, or no agreement at all."

For his part, Olmert pledged at Sunday's meeting that Israelis and Palestinians would try to seal a peace deal this year in line with a target set by Washington.

"We have to complete the Annapolis process this year - this year," Olmert, grasping Abbas in a handshake and using his other hand to gesture to the Palestinian leader, said emphatically in English as they posed for photographers at talks in Jerusalem.

The prime minister was referring to U.S.-sponsored Palestinian statehood talks that began at a conference in Annapolis, Maryland last November after a seven-year breakdown. Both leaders pledged to continue the talks until the end of the year, despite Olmert's plans to step down after a September primary in his Kadima party.

In a more upbeat take on the Sunday summit than Erekat's, Olmert spokesman Mark Regev said after the meeting that significant progress had been made in the talks but there are still considerable gaps between the two sides. He would not elaborate on the differences and gave no direct answer when asked if Olmert broached the idea of an interim agreement at the meeting.

During the meeting, Olmert protested Abbas' recent meeting with notorious Lebanese terrorist Samir Kuntar, whom Israel released in July as part of a prisoner swap with Hezbollah.

The prime minister told Abbas: "You are not a man of terror, and I didn't expect you to meet with such a despicable killer as him."

Abbas answered that the meeting was unplanned and that Kuntar had in fact invited himself. Olmert replied that it was still possible for the Palestinian leader not to have met with Kuntar.

Kuntar was convicted of murdering three Israelis in a particularly brutal terror attack in Nahariya 1979.

PM draws fire over proposal for int'l involvement in talks on J'lem

The talks came as Olmert's plan to propose international involvement in negotiations over the capital drew fire from cabinet ministers.

Olmert was expected to try to convince the Palestinian leader to accept an agreement of principles on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, that will represent a framework for a two-state solution.

As far as Olmert is concerned, the talks with Abbas have entered the "final straight," and there are about two weeks left to reach an agreement before the prime minister steps down.

Shas Chairman Eli Yishai condemned the plan, charging that the prime minister has no legal or public authority to make a deal with the Palestinians, and certainly not to decide the fate of Jerusalem.

"The leadership of the Palestinian Authority is virtual," Yishai said. "Any agreement with them will be the basis for more terror. It is clear to everyone that Jerusalem's fate cannot be negotiated like it was a currency, and certainly not with international participation."

The meeting between the two leaders will likely be their final session before the Kadima primary on September 17, after which Olmert will leave his post.

Meanwhile, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni warned Sunday that the two sides must not let time constraints set the agenda for talks. Livni is the front-runner in the race to replace Olmert as Kadima leader.

"I support negotiations, but a final agreement has to explicitly reflect Israel's interests," she said. "We can't allow time constraints to rush us into making grave mistakes in trying to bridge gaps that are too big in a way that will bring about a clash, nor can we compromise on critical issues only for the sake of results. This is not how I operate in negotiations."

Central in Olmert's proposal to the Palestinians is that the talks on sovereignty and control over the holy sites in Jerusalem be held under an international umbrella, where governments and other interested parties will be able to contribute their views. The negotiations will be held directly between Israel and the Palestinians, and international parties will not be able to impose their views on a solution. The role of the international parties would be to bolster the agreement that the two sides will agree upon in direct negotiations.

According to Olmert's proposal, a five-year timetable will be set out for completing a settlement on Jerusalem.



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      1.   Olmert vs Abbas 03:09  |  Brod 31/08/08
      2.   Olmert should have resigned a year ago! What is a convoincted.... 03:34  |  Rafa 31/08/08
      3.   Smart Brod 03:35  |  Warder 31/08/08
      4.   Peace 03:36  |  RepublicanStones 31/08/08
      5.   #1 Brod. Ducks of a feather... 03:37  |  Maureen Ann 31/08/08
      6.   PA presidential elections scheduled to take place in January 03:53  |  vik 31/08/08
      7.   Huricane Gustav Will Devastate South U.S.A . 04:24  |  Joseph.E 31/08/08
      8.   Is a one sane person left in this country? 04:36  |  DB 31/08/08
      9.   Two state solution 04:37  |  Wayne Redden 31/08/08
      10.   a criminally insane traitorous gangster 04:38  |  chaim 31/08/08
      11.   Olmert to press Abbas to accept framework for two States solution 04:40  |  martin list, m.d. 31/08/08
      12.   Rice-Olmert Intent Is To Internationaly Blame Arab` Refusal 04:42  |  Joseph.E 31/08/08
      13.   The Deal Will Lower ArabPal per capita Income 04:50  |  Joseph.E 31/08/08
      14.   RepublicanStones. you English is as poor as your history 05:21  |  Bruce 31/08/08
      15.   Jerusalem MUST BE INCLUDED in a 2008 deal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05:50  |  MOE 31/08/08
      16.   Olmerts a lame duck but he will be like a loose cannon 05:54  |  zionist forever 31/08/08
      17.   one is left speechless 05:55  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 31/08/08
      18.   Withdraw To 1949 Armistice Lines Or Face Muslims Lords of Wars 06:05  |  Joseph.E 31/08/08
      19.   Linvi & Olmert must both resign they are defeatists 06:45  |  HENRY MANN 31/08/08
      20.   4 07:00  |  zionist forever 31/08/08
      21.   #19, Henry Mann 07:09  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 31/08/08
      22.   Suggestion by Olmert somewhat of an accomplishment but... 07:33  |  Smadar 31/08/08
      23.   #15 - do you have lots of other fantasies too? 07:55  |  redmike 31/08/08
      24.   #14 - not fair to criticize English on this talkback .. 08:02  |  redmike 31/08/08
      25.   #22, Smadar 08:09  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 31/08/08
      26.   Israels talks two state, but actions will lead to one state 08:14  |  Natallie Durson 31/08/08
      27.   To RepublicanStones - # 4 - Historic Palestine? 08:23  |  Dagma 31/08/08
      28.   #17 Say Cipora, listen, Olmert is telling 08:33  |  ballistic 31/08/08
      29.   Olmert STILL there....? 08:34  |  Dolly 31/08/08
      30.   5 years to reach a settlement on Jerusalem! 08:40  |  Palestinian Brit 31/08/08
      31.   #21 Say Cipora 08:41  |  ballistic 31/08/08
      32.   The Oslo peace process didn`t have any chance to bring peace. 08:42  |  Jean Van Daem 31/08/08
      33.   Wayne Redden # 9 - Mideast Peace 08:44  |  Dagma 31/08/08
      34.   HENRY MANN # 19 - Stop Voting for Livni 09:01  |  Pathfinder 31/08/08
      35.   get rid of olmert before there is no israel left 09:04  |  ralph 31/08/08
      36.   who is abbas....? 09:07  |  ravi 31/08/08
      37.   UN, EU, USA and Russia will decide........ 09:08  |  Nora 31/08/08
      38.   Can you believe this one? 09:18  |  Connie 31/08/08
      39.   3 state solution is what is needed 09:19  |  SJ 31/08/08
      40.   olmert wants Israels enemies to decide the future of the capital 09:28  |  zionist forever 31/08/08
      41.   PEACE- What a Concept 09:42  |  Alan 31/08/08
      42.   SJ 09:52  |  Connie 31/08/08
      43.   olmert should invite ahmedinejad also 10:00  |  paulo2005 31/08/08
      44.   THE MOTHER OF ALL ISSUE RAISED BY A CROOK AT THE LAST MINUTES 10:04  |  indrajaya 31/08/08
      45.   CHUTZPAH....NO MANDATE, NO SUPPORT! and yet... 10:21  |  Jacob 31/08/08
      46.   Judgement for deserting Israel 10:25  |  Patrick K Phillips 31/08/08
      47.   Olmert you`re out - hands off our future 11:05  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 31/08/08
      48.   We elected him #10 11:19  |  A.M. 31/08/08
      49.   JERUSALEM ISSUE WON`T GO AWAY FOREVER 11:35  |  indrajaya 31/08/08
      50.   Only ONE conclusion from reading the posts here..... 11:37  |  Swiss (Dino) 31/08/08
      51.   Shas chief: Olmert has no authority 11:45  |  Ralph 31/08/08
      52.   Shas Gave Olmert The Authority by staying in the government 12:06  |  JM 31/08/08
      53.   Palestinian elections in January....? 12:16  |  Palestinian Brit 31/08/08
      54.   Jerusalem must not be ruled by Muslims! 12:23  |  Paul Henzen 31/08/08
      55.   Swiss (Dino) STRANGE 12:30  |  THE TEACHER/INSTRUCT 31/08/08
      56.   Good faith 12:45  |  Joseph 31/08/08
      57.   Land for peace? 12:48  |  Sherlock Holmes 31/08/08
      58.   on fanatics and non fanatics 12:58  |  Lea de Lange 31/08/08
      59.   To ballistic # 31 - Peace with someone who wants you DESTROYED? 13:07  |  Dagma 31/08/08
      60.   To ballistic 28 - You are not in the picture..... 13:18  |  Natasha 31/08/08
      61.   RepublicanStones...your`re lying...you`re an Ulster Union, right? 13:37  |  Ofer Maimon 31/08/08
      62.   international involvement 13:54  |  david 31/08/08
      63.   It`s not Olmert, not Livni, it`s us...part 1 13:55  |  Ofer Maimon 31/08/08
      64.   The fate of Olmert 13:57  |  Patrick Warner 31/08/08
      65.   Ralph, Corrupt or not, Olmert is not Asad! 14:00  |  Zev Davis 31/08/08
      66.   SO WHO HAS THE RIGHT TO DECIDE? 14:04  |  AMIHAI 31/08/08
      67.   It`s not Olmert, not Livni, it`s us...part 2 14:04  |  Ofer Maimon 31/08/08
      68.   To Swiss [Dino] # 50 - and that should tell you 14:09  |  Dolly 31/08/08
      69.   Correct move on Olmert`s part. 14:17  |  Ivar 31/08/08
      70.   Lame Ducks 14:25  |  Brod 31/08/08
      71.   To Patrick K Phillips 14:30  |  lady from USA 31/08/08
      72.   `legal or moral rights` 14:40  |  isaac 31/08/08
      73.   Israeli Basic Law (7/30/80) 14:54  |  Jeff Northridge 31/08/08
      74.   # 55 THE TEACHER, I fully understand that as a teacher (??)..... 14:57  |  Swiss (Dino) 31/08/08
      75.   Soon Olmert may ponder "The Jewish Question" 15:00  |  Avi 31/08/08
      76.   To Ivar # 68 - Sorry for the Arabs...... 15:03  |  Natasha 31/08/08
      77.   @Swiss (Dino) 15:04  |  Ralph 31/08/08
      78.   # 68 Dolly 15:04  |  Swiss (Dino) 31/08/08
      79.   Ivar continues to mimic Gibson 15:26  |  utagawa 31/08/08
      80.   To A. M. # 48 - Nobody Elected Olmert..... 15:34  |  Dagma 31/08/08
      81.   The Old City of Jerusalem, all of it, may never become but part 15:42  |  Nadav 31/08/08
      82.   Cipora Julianna Kohn # 17 I Agree 15:42  |  Jeff Northridge 31/08/08
      83.   Jeff # 82 15:55  |  Elihu 31/08/08
      84.   Olmert`s additional offer to the Pal`s -- Jordan River Valley 16:04  |  Neighbor1 31/08/08
      85.   Swiss (Dino 16:22  |  lady from USA 31/08/08
      86.   # 77 Ralph 16:23  |  Swiss (Dino) 31/08/08
      87.   Elihu # 83 That`s Fine With Me, But How Can It Be Forced? 16:40  |  Jeff Northridge 31/08/08
      88.   NO PEACE WITH THE PALESTINIANS 16:42  |  D 31/08/08
      89.   Shas is Correct. Olmert Must Not be Allowed to Make Any Deals 16:46  |  Dish It Out 31/08/08
      90.   #25 Cipora, what legacy? I`m tired of hearing about this... 16:48  |  Smadar 31/08/08
      91.   No New Deals Till After New Elections 16:49  |  Shepherd 31/08/08
      92.   # 85 lady from USA 17:24  |  Swiss (Dino) 31/08/08
      93.   To dolly: you mean Jebusites` city 17:29  |  Jeb 31/08/08
      94.   Why Not Get Them All Involved, Olmert? 17:30  |  Jeff Northridge 31/08/08
      95.   Cutting up Israel is wrong 17:32  |  lady from USA 31/08/08
      96.   Bible prophecy is amazing 17:34  |  lady from USA 31/08/08
      97.   # 90 Smadar 17:36  |  Swiss (Dino) 31/08/08
      98.   #96 lady from USA 18:09  |  Boycott 31/08/08
      99.   Legacies 18:12  |  Rozz 31/08/08
      100.   #97 Hello Swiss (Dino) 18:15  |  Smadar 31/08/08
      101.   THE TEACHER/INSTRUCT 18:20  |  Helene 31/08/08
      102.   There is no single legal document supporting 18:21  |  17 31/08/08
      103.   Nadav - Christians and Moslems will never.. 18:28  |  Palestinian Brit 31/08/08
      104.   Boycott 18:30  |  lady from USA 31/08/08
      105.   Jordan valley 18:31  |  Palestinian Brit 31/08/08
      106.   Daniel Abraham Jerusalem Affair 18:44  |  JoeK 31/08/08
      107.   Olmert-Abbas handshake commits US to back Annapolis 18:50  |  Ivar 31/08/08
      108.   Republican Stones # 4 and Bruce # 14 18:50  |  JordanisPalestine 31/08/08
      109.   Peace Process???!!! 18:58  |  C.A. Fulghum 31/08/08
      110.   Olmerts, "generosity" as per Sec.Rice. 19:03  |  Stephen 31/08/08
      111.   Olmert speaks as a PM who means to stay..... 19:12  |  Dagma 31/08/08
      112.   Jerusalem THE ETERNAL JEWISH CAPITAL!!! 19:18  |  Ron 31/08/08
      113.   The question of the Jordan Valley? 19:19  |  Nadav 31/08/08
      114.   nice photo, picture tells thousand words 19:26  |  A1 31/08/08
      115.   A Zero is Negotiating with a Nobody 19:49  |  I 31/08/08
      116.   #3 Smart Warder 19:56  |  dovvodf 31/08/08
      117.   #113 Nadav 19:58  |  Space 31/08/08
      118.   Israel does not now and does not have any desire to control in... 19:59  |  Nadav 31/08/08
      119.   My Posting # 108 19:59  |  JordanisPalestine 31/08/08
      120.   what deal exactly 20:01  |  Samer Saleh 31/08/08
      121.   please not another plan to make a plan (in old communist era - 20:16  |  ivo 31/08/08
      122.   FATAH OPTION CONDI-OLMERT FICTION THAT DOESN`T EXIST IN REALITY 20:24  |  G Marcus 31/08/08
      123.   Olmert: We have to Complete Annapolis..... 20:28  |  Rozz 31/08/08
      124.   neither olmert or Livni have the authority to speak for anyone 20:30  |  zionist forever 31/08/08
      125.   118, Nadav 20:31  |  A1 31/08/08
      126.   ABBAS is an Islamist 20:43  |  marat 31/08/08
      127.   the problem from day 1 is we continue to work to deadlines 20:48  |  zionistg forever 31/08/08
      128.   Jeff Northridge 20:48  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 31/08/08
      129.   Palestinian Brit # 105 The Jordan Valley 20:55  |  Jeff Northridge 31/08/08
      130.   Smadar 21:04  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 31/08/08
      131.   Olmert`s final failure 21:18  |  Tosefta 31/08/08
      132.   #119, Stephen 21:19  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 31/08/08
      133.   Teacher...the worst part of the deal 21:27  |  Lynn 31/08/08
      134.   103 21:42  |  zionist forever 31/08/08
      135.   It all began with the British Mandate of PALESTINE. 21:47  |  The Threadmill 31/08/08
      136.   Jeff Northridge - Jordan Valley 21:57  |  Palestinian Brit 31/08/08
      137.   Olmert`s final failure 22:01  |  Tosefta 31/08/08
      138.   Peace 22:04  |  Hilda 31/08/08
      139.   Cipora Julianna Kohn # 128 I Agree On That One Too 22:05  |  Jeff Northridge 31/08/08
      140.   Israel has no attention of offering an acceptable deal 22:15  |  Labhras 31/08/08
      141.   What` the problem? 22:18  |  utagawa 31/08/08
      142.   Olmert?s Final Exit ? 22:33  |  H.H.M. 31/08/08
      143.   Cipora, the international parties won`t have the right to decide 22:50  |  ivo 31/08/08
      144.   Olmert endangering Israel 22:55  |  Nathaniel 31/08/08
      145.   GET IT OVER WITH 23:00  |  SAUL 31/08/08
      146.   referendum is the only way to deal with Jerusalem 23:02  |  zionist forever 31/08/08
      147.   #139, Jeff Northridge 23:02  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 31/08/08
      148.   NO to Abbas` crap 23:06  |  Brod 31/08/08
      149.   YOU DON`T TURN OVER VITAL TERRITORY TO THOSE BENT ON YR DESTRUCTN 23:07  |  Joel Stein 31/08/08
      150.   Cipora Julliana Kohn. (132). 23:19  |  Stephen 31/08/08
      151.   JESUSALEN 23:21  |  cristian 31/08/08
      152.   On Jerusalem 23:29  |  Brod 31/08/08
      153.   labarse of arabia and more unholy crap 23:38  |  vhardman 31/08/08
      154.   140# Labras as usual telling lies and hatred against jews 23:49  |  JP 31/08/08
      155.   Shas deciding Jerusalem`s fate because they didn`t leave gov`t 23:51  |  Nona 31/08/08
      156.   Terror PLO Reject Egypt Idea To Draw First Borders 23:53  |  Joseph.E 31/08/08
      157.   #111 Dagma 00:02  |  Rozz 01/09/08
      158.   Israel----- What a flippin` mess 00:14  |  Rozz 01/09/08
      159.   Palestinian Brit # 136 Aw, That`s Tough! 00:16  |  Jeff Northridge 01/09/08
      160.   cristian #150: can you please explain? 00:18  |  ivo 01/09/08
      161.   What do all the knuckleheads expect? 00:27  |  Michael N 01/09/08
      162.   Let`s hear more about... 00:47  |  Maureen Ann 01/09/08
      163.   #130 Cipora 01:15  |  Smadar 01/09/08
      164.   Olmert can`t bring Palestine from the dead. 01:53  |  Akram Zekaria 01/09/08
      165.   Abbas repeats Arafat`s mistakes 01:53  |  MichaelF 01/09/08
      166.   Call it a day 02:16  |  Fadi Hirz 01/09/08
      167.   # 17 to cipora re: olmert`s proposal (2nd try) 02:27  |  eric 01/09/08
      168.   To CJK (#21) 02:50  |  Morris Valentine 01/09/08
      169.   Smadar @90 03:36  |  GABE1 01/09/08
      170.   #160 The Ever Appeaser Smadar.What you said is A repetition. 03:38  |  anonymous 01/09/08
      171.   #73 He can do it easily, Jeff 04:12  |  Johnboy 01/09/08
      172.   Warder on 67 borders 04:15  |  zengeos 01/09/08
      173.   Peace #4 04:16  |  zengeos 01/09/08
      174.   Wayne on peace now 04:18  |  zengeos 01/09/08
      175.   #137 Tosefta 04:24  |  Smadar 01/09/08
      176.   Cipora on Jerusalem 04:24  |  zengeos 01/09/08
      177.   Palestinian Brit 103 - you had freedom of 04:30  |  ChanahS 01/09/08
      178.   Ravi on water theft 04:37  |  zengeos 01/09/08
      179.   #169 Gabe1 & #170 anonymous - Summer pretty quiet until now... 05:01  |  Smadar 01/09/08
      180.   Lost in too much nonsense ! (2nd try). 05:09  |  Akram Zekaria 01/09/08
      181.   171# Johnboy. A load of rubbish work only in a Dictator`s State. 05:20  |  Akram Zekaria 01/09/08
      182.   #162 Maureen 05:33  |  Rab Burns 01/09/08
      183.   Deal or no deal 05:42  |  Shimon Cleopas 01/09/08
      184.   Fadi Hirz # 166 And What Might That Be? 05:50  |  Jeff Northridge 01/09/08
      185.   Johnboy # 171 It Wasn`t An "Administrative Order" 06:37  |  Jeff Northridge 01/09/08
      186.   #168, Morris Valentine 06:38  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 01/09/08
      187.   #150, Stephen 06:45  |  Cipora Juliana Kohn 01/09/08
      188.   #167, eric 06:53  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 01/09/08
      189.   #163, Smadar 07:10  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 01/09/08
      190.   Abbas where is your counter offer? 07:18  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 01/09/08
      191.   Republican stones (in the head?) 07:22  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 01/09/08
      192.   Anapolis Process Must Not Survive Olmert Resignation . 07:26  |  Joseph.E 01/09/08
      193.   Palestinians and peace with Israel. 07:37  |  Harry 01/09/08
      194.   120# Samer Saleh " they need to finish the deal .. 07:52  |  Akram Zekaria 01/09/08
      195.   The higher the price the cheaper the dream ! 08:00  |  Akram Zekaria 01/09/08
      196.   #167 eric the arabs have sent the peace nonsense back wher it bel 08:49  |  vhardman 01/09/08
      197.   #185 Explaining the trick to Jeff 09:01  |  Johnboy 01/09/08
      198.   Smadar 09:12  |  Margie in Tel Aviv 01/09/08
      199.   #185 A bit more digging around, Jeff, and..... 09:18  |  Johnboy 01/09/08
      200.   CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN??? 09:57  |  Tom 01/09/08
      201.   So much for Israel`s interests and time constraints... 10:25  |  Dutch 01/09/08
      202.   # 196 to vhardman re: behind the times 11:05  |  eric 01/09/08
      203.   # 188 to cipora re: "outside interference" 11:11  |  eric 01/09/08
      204.   Tom(200). The plight of Palestinians. 12:12  |  Stephen 01/09/08
      205.   Cipora, did you overlook my comment to you at #143? 12:33  |  ivo 01/09/08
      206.   #195 johnboy and more of the customary law ? 13:47  |  vhardman 01/09/08
      207.   All the past and current delaying tactics 16:12  |  Buick from Boca 01/09/08
      208.   #206 Err, not exactly, VictorPaul 17:07  |  Johnboy 01/09/08
      209.   ivo 19:47  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 01/09/08
      210.   #179 Smadar on the Embassies 21:31  |  anonymous 01/09/08
      211.   JESUSALEN 21:47  |  cristian 01/09/08
      212.   # 195 Akram **The higher the price the cheaper the dream! 23:33  |  KATHY 01/09/08
      213.   #190 Margie in Tel Aviv Banging your head against the wall! 00:10  |  KATHY 02/09/08
      214.   #188 CJK To eric.In Any case,Too many Cooks Spoil The Broth 00:31  |  KATHY 02/09/08
      215.   Cipora #209 01:52  |  Brod 02/09/08
      216.   JESUSALEN 03:05  |  cristian 02/09/08
      217.   Interm deal 03:16  |  Daniel Davenport 02/09/08
      218.   EXILE OLMERT, End our Exile, Build Temple 13:48  |  Barry S Roffman 02/09/08
      219.   #96 Biblical prophecy 13:55  |  Ben Azai 02/09/08
      220.   A world city 14:05  |  Joseph 02/09/08
      221.   Cristian #216 14:40  |  Brod 02/09/08
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