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Last update - 20:56 15/07/2008 Key witness in Olmert graft probe silent under questioning By Tomer Zarchin, Haaretz Correspondent Tags: Olmert, corruption, Israel  Attorney Uri Messer, whom police had hoped would prove a key witness in one of the investigations against Prime Minister Ehud Olmert - the Morris Talansky case - has decided not to cooperate with police. During a three-hour interrogation under caution on June 18, Messer systematically refused to answer questions about the case, in which American Jewish businessman Talansky is suspected of giving Olmert some $150,000 over the course of about a decade. Messer was also questioned about allegations that while serving as industry and trade minister, Olmert used his longstanding friendship with the minister to obtain unwarranted benefits from the ministry for his clients. Advertisement Haaretz has obtained the full nine-page transcript of the interrogation, excerpts of which are being published here for the first time. The transcript reveals some of the difficulties in the investigation - specifically, the difficulty in proving that Olmert was aware of all the links along the chain that Talansky's money traveled. Messer served as trustee for two bank accounts during the period in question: one to finance Olmert's successful campaign for mayor of Jerusalem, and one to finance his unsuccessful run for the Likud Party chairmanship. Police are still not certain exactly how much money from Talansky made its way into these accounts via Olmert's former office manager, Shula Zaken. The interrogation began with Messer announcing that he had no intention of answering any more of the police's questions, because things he had said "off the record, man to man" during previous interrogations had been published on the front pages of newspapers in early June. "Until now, I have fully answered all the questions you asked me, both 'on the record' and 'off the record,'" Messer said. "And then, two weeks ago, I saw things I told you 'off the record,' man to man, in the lead headline of the paper. For me, that was a watershed. It hurt me very deeply, and therefore, I do not intend to continue answering questions beyond what I have answered to date." Superintendents Iris Barak and Tzachi Chavkin responded that they, too, deplored the leaks, and urged him not to foil their efforts to get to the bottom of the case due to the media reports. But Messer was adamant. "First, everything I say here sooner or later reaches the media," he complained. "Second, I was very deeply hurt. Something broke inside me, and it can't be healed. Therefore, I don't intend to continue answering questions beyond what I've answered to date." Nevertheless, the investigators insisted on posing their questions. The first question they asked related to the stash of dollars, in cash, that Messer kept for Olmert, first in a safe in his office and later in a strongbox in Bank Leumi. "Who else had a key to the office safe?" they asked. When Messer refused to answer, they continued: "The material we have indicates that on December 24, 2003, Talansky gave Shula Zaken a large sum of money, $72,500. Shula gave $7,500 of this money directly to Olmert, and the rest, $65,000, she gave to you. We would like you to give us details about this large sum that Shula gave you ... What did you do with the money after you received it?" When Messer again refused to answer, they tried a different tack: "During your [previous] interrogations, you said that you spoke with Talansky several times about the money Talansky gave to Shula and Olmert, which afterward came to you. For instance, in your interrogation of April 30, 2008, you said: 'From my conversations with Talansky, I was able to understand that the money Talansky gave Shula Zaken was transferred to me to keep for Olmert.' Which of the sums that Talansky transferred did the two of you discuss?" Later, Barak and Chavkin asked Messer when exactly he returned a sum of $150,000 to Olmert, via Zaken. During his previous interrogations, Messer had said that he did so after he decided to stop serving as Olmert's banker. They also asked him for details about a document in their possession detailing his visits to the strongbox in Bank Leumi. Again, Messer refused to answer. Next, they asked about money that was transferred from Talansky's account in America to one of the Bank Leumi accounts for which Messer served as trustee - the one that financed Olmert's bid for the Likud leadership. These included a $60,000 transfer on June 17, 1999, a $50,000 transfer on June 21, 1999, and another transfer - for which the transcript gives no date - of 25,000 pounds sterling. Messer replied that he had nothing to say. "What involvement in and/or knowledge of these transfers ... or of the use made of this money, did Olmert have?" the investigators continued, again with no response. Barak and Chavkin also asked about the deficit that accrued in the account of the United Jerusalem organization, which financed the bulk of Olmert's campaign for mayor of Jerusalem. During his previous interrogations, they noted, Messer had said that money received from Talansky was used to cover this deficit. That money was supposed to have been used only as collateral for the debt, but in early 2002, when no other way of covering the deficit had been found, the Talansky money was used to repay the debt. "Isn't it true that Talansky asked you when the money would be returned to him?" they demanded. The investigators also charged that "the entire construct" of the account in which the Talansky money was deposited - the one for which Messer served as trustee, and which served as collateral for United Jerusalem's debts - was intended from the start to deceive the state comptroller by concealing the true source of the money that was ultimately used to pay off the organization's debts. When Messer declined to be drawn into responding, the interrogators asked why he had agreed to pay the fine that the comptroller levied on United Jerusalem, rather than covering the deficit with the funds in the Talansky account. Once again, Messer refused to answer. Should Olmert be indicted, police can still call Messer to the witness stand on the basis of his earlier police interrogations, during which he gave detailed answers to the questions he was asked. Should he refuse to answer questions in court, he could be declared a hostile witness, which would enable prosecutors to submit his earlier police testimony to the court as evidence. Related articles: Police: Olmert's testimony on Friday strengthened double-billing case Olmert's children: Plane tickets were gifts paid for by our father ANALYSIS / Olmert can't recover from latest police interrogation Olmert: Reports I defrauded charities are distorted, despicable Talansky: Olmert got $150,000 from me, introduced me to tycoons Bookmark to del.icio.us   Hezbollah's pleasure For Israelis, the release of Kuntar is a form of self-inflicted torture. Exchange timeline How the prisoner exchange with Hezbollah will be carried out.   1.   police graft probe 03:57  |  Alex 15/07/08   2.   police investigators 04:30  |  alexi 15/07/08   3.   The Whole Investigation is Tainted 05:51  |  guy 15/07/08   4.   This is why indictments are needed now against Olmert & friends 06:50  |  Shepherd 15/07/08   5.   This is a sad and painful episode in Israel`s history 07:34  |  Dror 15/07/08   6.   He and Zaken should be arrested 08:31  |  Zev 15/07/08   7.   Messer is RIGHT! Because everything is in the media. Look here... 08:36  |  S 15/07/08   8.   A stinking albatross 09:25  |  Clickfool 15/07/08   9.   Messer keeps quiet 10:01  |  the truth 15/07/08   10.   Click 10:06  |  the truth 15/07/08   11.   None of this should be in the press 10:48  |  David Plane 15/07/08   12.   For "The Truth" # 10 11:18  |  Clickfool 15/07/08   13.   What are they hiding? 11:20  |  Dagma 15/07/08   14.   MAZUZ said yesterday........ 11:32  |  Dolly 15/07/08   15.   Unprofessional report: lawyer cannot break his secrecy 11:36  |  Ulf 15/07/08   16.   Why has Olmert 5/6 Lawyers to defend him? 11:39  |  netta 15/07/08   17.   Messer sounds `fishy` . 11:59  |  Onlooker 15/07/08   18.   Why is key witness silent? 12:02  |  charlie 15/07/08   19.   Shepherd @ 4 - Indictments are necessary 12:13  |  justiceforall 15/07/08   20.   To Ulf #15 - Messer was not a Client of Omert 12:34  |  The Threadmill 15/07/08   21.   He`s scared to talk. Zelika got threatened, Messer won`t be? 13:24  |  Helm of Chelm 15/07/08   22.   Police are acting in arrodance with LAW....says Mazua 13:31  |  Natasha 15/07/08   23.   To Alex #1 - Right! The New Jerusalem Foundation 15:13  |  Dagma 15/07/08   24.   To Clickfool # 12 - Olmert was NOT ELECTED by the people 15:36  |  Dolly 15/07/08   25.   Its a JOKE! This case can carry on for years 16:27  |  Bored 15/07/08   26.   This nonsense has to come to an end Now Indict all involved 17:38  |  Living in Rishon 15/07/08   27.   leaks, schmeeks 01:48  |  Andrew 16/07/08

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