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Cinderella man By Ari Shavit Tags: silvan shalom, israel  Silvan Shalom takes an optimistic view of Barack Obama's selection as the Democratic Party's candidate for the White House. After all, back in January 2006, when they met in Israel, when Shalom was foreign minister and Obama was a relatively unknown senator, he pointed out the similarities between them. "First of all, Obama and I were born on the same day - August 4," says Shalom. "But he was born three years after me." He has charisma. You don't. "A person can't be everything. There have been charismatic leaders who brought about disasters in Israel and catastrophes in the world. But Obama's candidacy is causing a dramatic change. It attests that America is overcoming a lot of baggage. I believe that I can also bring about change. When I am prime minister, Israeli society will come to terms with itself." Advertisement And you'll be the first Mizrahi prime minister? "I believe that I have the talents to be prime minister. I have unrivaled experience in defense, finance and foreign affairs. And you can't say that I lack emotional intelligence. But what makes it difficult for me is the marketing. I'm not the type to make harsh statements in order to look tough. And because I'm moderate and don't get all worked up, I'm perceived as drab." Israel isn't yet ready to accept its Mizrahi Obama? "The facts speak for themselves. Israel still hasn't managed to produce a Mizrahi prime minister. I'm not saying that a prime minister should be elected because of his ethnic background. No one should be given any job because of that. But is it reasonable that in 60 years there somehow hasn't been a single one? When Amir Peretz was the Labor candidate, there were many people, who were referred to as 'Givatayim residents,' who switched to vote for Kadima. Today, too, it's clear that if Mofaz were elected as head of Kadima, those same 'Givatayim residents' would go back to voting for Labor. In time, this problem will disappear. With young people it's less of an issue than with older people. But there is still a problem. It can't be ignored." A personal interest Once again, it was not Silvan Shalom's month. The move he led to disband the Knesset and move up the elections failed. "I've been in politics a very long time," says Shalom, "but I've never seen behavior like that of Ehud Barak. The man crossed every red line. He did it after the publication of the final Winograd report and he did it again now. In both cases, the man broke explicit pledges. He's shown himself to lack any credibility. "After the Winograd report, we had completely sealed the deal with Barak. But then Yedioth Ahronoth came out with the headline 'Acquitted' and Barak panicked and totally broke his commitment. It was terrible. It reinforced the feeling among young people that all politicians are cynics. That politics is about nothing more than holding onto your seat. On the evening of June 19, Labor, Likud and Shas agreed on national elections in November, municipal elections in March and a no-confidence vote. It was all settled down to the last detail. And I saw to it that on June 22 there would be a late-night conversation between Eli Yishai and Ehud Barak. And in this conversation, they both pledged to one another that they were going to see this through to the end. Eli Yishai stood by his commitment. Contrary to all the suspicions and rumors, Shas didn't run away. But Ehud Barak did. On June 24 in the evening, I notice that he's not getting back to me. His aides tell me that he'll be in touch soon - another 15 minutes, another half an hour. "And then, at two in the morning, journalists call to tell me that he made a deal with Olmert via Tzachi Hanegbi. And I find myself thinking of what Haim Ramon always told me: 'Don't trust Barak. He's a dishrag.' I don't want to say dishrag because I don't use those kinds of words. But Barak is a coward. He's a chicken. He's proven that a person can be the bravest soldier on the battlefield and the biggest coward in politics." Is that what made the difference in the end? Fear? Did Olmert manage to really scare Barak? "Absolutely. Look - What did Barak say? He said that he came to the conclusion that someone who is under so many investigations is not able to manage the affairs of state. And now he's giving him six months and maybe even nine months to run the state. This is extreme irresponsibility. It's giving personal benefit priority over the national interest. And why? Because when Olmert threatened Barak with dismissal, Barak turned to jelly. He feared that he wouldn't be a minister or a Knesset member. And in order to keep his seat, he brought politics down to the lowest of the low. Just like Tzipi Livni, he proved he doesn't practice what he preaches." What's your opinion of Olmert? "His capacity for survival is impressive. After such a botched war, after Winograd and after Talansky, he's still prime minister. This is very grave for the Israeli people, but it attests to the most impressive survival skills, which should be taught in every school of politics. At the same time, one has to remember that there are powerful factors helping Olmert to survive. The demonization of Bibi, for example. The fact that out of 120 MKs, 80 were appointed and not elected. And the media. The media whose conduct in many instances just makes me sick. Makes me want to throw up. "You see senior journalists distorting the reality. You see senior journalists turning themselves into 'court' reporters. Take Nahum Barnea, for example. Or Shimon Shiffer. Their writing comes from a certain place. In terms of a political stance and in terms of friendships and in terms of a desire not to see the other. "In the face of the Olmert investigations, there were some in the media who sought to deflect the police and the state prosecutor and others in the media. I consider this very serious. I was a journalist once, too. And I've worked with journalists for decades. I can't remember a time like this, in which journalists tried to halt processes of investigation and of getting at the truth." Maybe you're saying these things because of personal scores you have to settle with the media? "I admit it: I also have a personal interest. Once, Nahum Barnea said to me that since my wife is a stockholder in Yedioth Ahronoth, he would never write anything good about me. He wouldn't go after me, but if bad things fell into his hands, he would write them, and if he ran into good things, he wouldn't write them. That's why there has never been an article about me in Yedioth Ahronoth's 'Seven Days' supplement. When it concerns me, they're wary. However, when it has to do with Olmert, who is very close to some of these journalists, they're not careful at all. They think they can write whatever they want. I find it repulsive. It's a double message. It's an unworthy use of the power of the media." Don't you feel that, over the past two years, Netanyahu has failed as head of the opposition? "There's no question that when he headed the opposition from 1993-1996, Netanyahu had totally different energies. Maybe after you've been prime minister, your energies are different. Or maybe he's grown up since then. Maybe he thinks that the way he's acting now is more fitting. I think there have been missed opportunities. I've said to Netanyahu more than once that we should have been more active. If we had led a demonstration of 400,000 after the Second Lebanon War, a national commission of inquiry would have been established and the government would have fallen. But you have to remember that we're only 12 in the Knesset. We're missing 49 votes. And when you're facing a professional survivor like Olmert and professional cowards like Barak and Livni, it's not easy to be the head of the opposition. Therefore, you won't get me to criticize Bibi here. We're currently working in cooperation and I think we're also working better. In the next elections, Netanyahu is the candidate." You're not a disciple of Netanyahu. Have you two made a truce? "I still think that the process of early elections in the Likud was illegitimate. I didn't take part in it because I thought it shouldn't have happened. But it did happen. I accepted the decision. I spoke with Bibi, we reached understandings. Later on, I'll be a candidate again. I believe that I'll also be prime minister. Within less than a decade, maybe a lot less than a decade, I will be prime minister." The offended Mizrahi At 25, Shalom was a journalist for Hadashot. At 30, he was director-general of the Energy Ministry. At 31, he was appointed chairman of the board of the Israel Electric Corporation. At 34, he became a prominent Knesset member. After that, he hurried from one senior position to another: deputy defense minister, science minister, finance minister, foreign minister and deputy prime minister. While his marriage to Judy Nir-Mozes connected him to the media and financial elite, his senior position in the Likud gave him political power. Sitting in the attractive home in Ramat Gan where he lives with Judy and their five children, it's hard for Shalom to assert that Israel hasn't opened its doors to him. The fact that he was born in Gabes, Tunisia and grew up in a 32-square-meter apartment in Be'er Sheva's Heh neighborhood adds a Cinderella-story dimension to his biography. An ingathering-of-the-exiles success story. And yet, something about the senior political triangle of Olmert-Barak-Netanyahu makes him uncomfortable. Three men, three Ashkenazim, all from a similar socio-economic background. "A few weeks ago, someone from academia wrote an article in which he said that Israel should learn from Obama's victory in the primaries and have an Arab candidate for prime minister. And it never occurred to this academic either that even though Mizrahim make up 50 percent of the population, we still haven't had a Mizrahi prime minister. "There's a taboo in Israel. You can talk about the situation of Israeli Arabs, you can talk about discrimination against women in Israel, but it's forbidden to talk about the periphery. It's forbidden to talk about how a majority of the poor are Mizrahim. It's forbidden to talk about how a majority of those without a higher education are Mizrahim. It's forbidden to talk about how a majority of prisoners are Mizrahim. And it's also forbidden to talk about how we've yet to have a Mizrahi prime minister. In 60 years, not a single Mizrahi has been found worthy of being prime minister. "I think the time has come to break the taboo. We need to take a sober look at reality and speak the truth. Not to say - It doesn't exist, there's no problem. But to see the problem and grapple with it." This whole discussion sounds a little anachronistic. Do you really think that in Israel in 2008 there is still an ethnic problem? That it's harder for Mizrahim to fit in and excel and achieve positions of power? "What I say isn't important, it's what the statistics show. And the statistics show that the ratio of those eligible for a matriculation certificate is higher among those of European and American descent than among those of Asian and African descent. The statistics show a widening of the gaps between these groups in the third generation. For the people of the periphery, it's harder to attain a good education, it's harder to integrate in academia. And so the gap between people of the periphery and those of the center is not disappearing. The fact that there hasn't yet been a Mizrahi prime minister says that there's a glass ceiling for Mizrahim." But you're not the example of anti-Mizrahi discrimination. "I have nothing to complain about. Even though I came from where I came from, I became chairman of the board of the IEC at age 31. I was deputy defense minister, finance minister and foreign minister. I never felt that I was oppressed. But it's precisely because of my personal success that I must say these things. I think we have to look in the mirror and not break it." What do you see in the mirror? "Many years ago, long before the Friedmann era, I was present at a meeting of the members of the Knesset Constitution Committee with the president of the Supreme Court, Meir Shamgar. Shamgar argued that the Israeli system of selecting justices was the best in the world. I was a young MK, but when Shamgar finished speaking, I got up and said that in my opinion, our system was the worst in the world. Everyone looked at me in astonishment and thought I'd lost my mind. But I explained that out of the 12 justices who were on the Supreme Court then, 11 were secular men. Of the 12 justices, 11 were Ashkenazi. Of the 12 justices, 12 were Jews. I said that a system that allows a group that represents 15 percent of the population (male-Jewish-Ashkenazi-secular) to make up 90 percent of the Supreme Court is defective, in my view. "Although certain changes have occurred in the Supreme Court since then, the argument still holds true. And it doesn't just apply to the court. It also applies to academia, the economy, politics and the media. We aren't aware enough that there are still locked doors. And when there is an effort for affirmative action, it's for women and minorities. And I'm always in favor. But I ask - where is the affirmative action for the periphery? Where is the effort to bring the Mizrahim inside?" Have you personally encountered any stigmas? "Certainly. When I took over the post of foreign minister, people immediately started asking: 'Does he know how to speak English?' 'Speaking English' is a code word. There are other code words. A 'Mizrahi' is always hotheaded and overly sensitive, and doesn't know English. The Mizrahi is always offended. Meanwhile, an Ashkenazi is never offended. There are stigmas about the Ashkenazim, too. The Ashkenazi is cold, distant, aloof. I don't accept any of these generalizations, either way. I don't take stigmas too seriously. But they're also a kind of obstruction." The satirical program "A Wonderful Country" totally trashed Amir Peretz. Did that bother you? "There was something ludicrous about it. It's the same sometimes in relation to me. Even though I have four degrees, they can say that I'm not as educated as Peres - who doesn't have a single degree. Or even a matriculation certificate." Is a Mizrahi politician treated differently from an Ashkenazi politician? "I don't know. When I was appointed chairman of the IEC, there was a major uproar. A senior journalist called me and said that if I were born in Ramat Hasharon, people would say that I'm a genius, but because I was born in Be'er Sheva, they're saying that I'm an unworthy political appointment. "I'm strong. Nothing was taken or stolen from me. But in the broader view, I think that when there's a Mizrahi prime minister here, the question marks will disappear. Every person in the periphery will feel that he or she can make it, too. And if that prime minister also deals seriously with the social issue, he'll also be able to genuinely reduce the gaps. He'll remove from Israel the existential social threat, which is no less dangerous than the existential security threat." Non-peace plan In the spring of 2003, Silvan Shalom, then foreign minister, sent his director-general, Eitan Ben Tsur, to hold exploratory talks in Amman with the brother of Bashar Assad, Maher, and with his sister and her husband. "Bashar had a desire then to examine the option for an agreement and to make progress," says Shalom. "I wanted to hold negotiations, and I still believe that what works are peace agreements with countries. But I don't accept that the price of peace is clear and well-known. It will be possible to attain peace with Syria under much better conditions than the conditions of Shepherdstown and the 'Rabin deposit.' A Syrian military presence in the Golan Heights is out of the question. It would lead to the establishment of Iranian bases there. It would give the Iranians one forward position in Lebanon and another in the Golan Heights, and that's madness. It's also inconceivable to allow the Syrians to wade in the Kinneret. "The situation today is more difficult than it was in 2003. Damascus' involvement in the axis of evil has deepened. Negotiations with Assad at a time when he supports those who seek to destroy us weakens the moderates in the Arab world. Therefore, we need to very seriously and cautiously examine whether there is truly a partner on the other side. If Assad leaves behind the axis of evil and the alliance with Hamas and Hezbollah, I'll be the first to support serious negotiations with him. The negotiations that are currently going on with the Syrians are not like that. They're an outgrowth of the government's situation - the situation of the prime minister and of the investigations." Shalom is not an advocate of the use of military force against Iran and its nuclear facilities. "Along with the military preparation, we must first pursue the diplomatic track in full," says Shalom. "Diplomacy works. Sanctions work. They worked on South Africa and they worked on Libya and now they're also working on North Korea. There's no reason they won't work on Iran. There's a window of opportunity today: Britain, France, Germany and Italy hold a position similar to ours and to that of the United States. Therefore, Israel can do much more than it did to promote genuine sanctions, not through the UN. To enact an intensive and aggressive diplomatic emergency plan." Shalom doesn't envision any possibility of reaching a comprehensive solution with the Palestinians in the next few years. "For the Palestinians, without a division of Jerusalem, there's no agreement. But for me, with a division of Jerusalem, there's no agreement. For most Israelis, Jerusalem is not only the capital; it's the essence of their existence. This is something very profound that Ehud Barak and Yossi Beilin failed to understand." Shalom is convinced that the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank poses an existential threat to Israel. "Hamas will win in the elections or foment a revolution and turn it into a Hamas state under Iranian control that will make our lives intolerable. Therefore, those among us who talk about Geneva and Peace Now are talking with themselves. There cannot be a third state here. Such a state cannot have territorial contiguity either. It's a fairy tale. Therefore, in the long run, the dynamic will lead to Gaza being integrated in some way with Egypt, while the Palestinians will integrate in a confederation with Jordan. The Palestinian option that the left talks about doesn't exist. The option of reaching an accord with the Palestinians lies in a confederation with Jordan." W Bookmark to del.icio.us   Hezbollah abduction How the Lebanese militia captured two IDF reservists in 2006, illustrated in pictures. Kuntar's crimes Israeli YouTube video details the 1979 terror attack perpetrated by Samir Kuntar.   1.   Shalom is a thoughtful man, still not first Mizrahi PM material 01:52  |  Genuine Tosefta 12/07/08   2.   Interesting interview, some correct assessments, but no Obama.... 05:54  |  Smadar 12/07/08   3.   Correct, nobody can be like nobody Obama, so Shalom is not Obama 17:08  |  Genuine Tosefta 12/07/08

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