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Shmuel Rosner Chief U.S. Correspondent www.haaretz.com/rosner Biography | Email me
Posted:

Can a Jew support the war without being blamed for divided loyalties?

I was taking my time before writing this response to the comments made by Time's Joe Klein on his blog, because I wanted to make sure I was writing a measured response rather than an angry one. And anyway, participating in the ensuing debate between Klein and between those claiming that his remarks are no more than "an ugly smear" can be very tricky for an Israeli. One might argue that Klein's remarks should be debated by Americans only.

So - I'm only writing this in the hope that I do have something to contribute. Because this is also a debate that has a lot to do with the Jewish world, in which I'm a member, and not just with American politics.

Here we go:

1.

Here is what Klein wrote:

"The fact that a great many Jewish neoconservatives - people like Joe Lieberman and the crowd over at Commentary - plumped for this war, and now for an even more foolish assault on Iran, raised the question of divided loyalties: using U.S. military power, U.S. lives and money, to make the world safe for Israel."

He then added this:

"You want evidence of divided loyalties? How about the 'benign domino theory' that so many Jewish neoconservatives talked to me about - off the record, of course - in the runup to the Iraq war, the idea that Israel's security could be won by taking out Saddam, which would set off a cascade of disaster for Israel's enemies in the region?"

2.

A blizzard of reactions to Klein's blog entries came mainly from the right. That's unfortunate, as this should not be a debate of right vs. left, but rather one of people who care about the meaning of words and those ready to use any argument in the service of politics.

3.

Many of the reactions concentrated on the accuracy of Klein's comments. Were the neocons preaching for war because they are Jewish, and because they wanted the war to help Israel?

Here is Max Boot of Commentary denouncing Klein: "The notion that only Jews whose first concern is for the security of Israel could possibly favor the invasion of Iraq is laughable."

Here is Andrew Sullivan supporting Klein: "I can't speak for Joe, but I obviously feel somewhat shafted by some neocon arguments before the war - arguments that I took in good faith and now suspect were made in bad."

4.

Here are my ten cents: Klein comments are really a trap. Saying that Joe Lieberman supported the war in Iraq because of disloyalty to America is basically saying that no Jewish person can ever support a policy that can be perceived as beneficial to Israel. If Condoleezza Rice supports the war - that's legitimate. If Paul Wolfowitz supports the war - it's not. They might have the exact same motives, but Klein will differentiate between the two because one is not Jewish and the other is Jewish.

5.

"Most Jews disagree with their [the neocons'] politics and many Jews are disgusted with their behavior," Klein wrote in a letter to Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League.

He might be right but one has to wonder: Do these Jews oppose the war because they do not care about Israel? Do they oppose it even though they believe that their position will harm Israel ? because they are better Americans? And what if they oppose the war because they believe it is actually bad for Israel, as some left wing Jewish activists say? Will Klein also raise the question of divided loyalties regarding such Jewish Americans who oppose the war?

Here is one opportunity (out of many available): In a dialogue here a couple of weeks ago, Jeremy Ben-Ami, of the leftist pro-Israel J Street Project, wrote this: "An America that is bogged down militarily in Iraq and less able to either inspire or intimidate in the region and the world is bad news for both America and Israel."

Dual loyalty?

If it is, I didn't hear Klein denounce the likes of Ben-Ami for thinking about Israel as they preach for withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

6.

Here's a little mind game with which to demonstrate my point.

Imagine Klein, back in the late Nineties, writing this:

"The fact that a great many Jewish officials in the Clinton administration plumped for this Oslo process between Israel and the Palestinians, and now for an even more foolish summit at Camp David between Ehud Barak and Yassir Arafat, raised the question of divided loyalties: using U.S. diplomatic leverage and money, to make the world safe for Israel."

Can you imagine him writing such thing? Can you imagine him blaming the many-many Jewish members of the Clinton administration for tilting the American agenda toward the peace process only because they want to help Israel?

If you can - Klein is being honest. If you can't - Klein is just using religion to denounce people with whom he has policy differences.

  1.   They better do 12:58  |  Paul Wood 27/06/08
  2.   NO MATTER HOW MANY US SOLDIERS GOT KILLED 13:00  |  indrajaya 27/06/08
  3.   the iraq war has weakened the usa 13:06  |  judea 27/06/08
  4.   I wish Jews would not support the war ... 13:24  |  Edith 27/06/08
  5.   Real reasons for war in Iraq 14:35  |  Dror 27/06/08
  6.   Why does Saudi Arabia still sell in Dollars ? 14:42  |  Dror 27/06/08
  7.   Most American Jews 14:49  |  Mark Lincoln 27/06/08
  8.   It`s the statistics, stupid neocon 15:02  |  Tosefta 27/06/08
  9.   Toss my salad Tosefta 15:11  |  Dror 27/06/08
  10.   I thought we invaded Iraq 15:34  |  Rachel Stevens 27/06/08
  11.   Dror 16:46  |  wh 27/06/08
  12.   # 5 Dror....Chalabi and co are the real culprits 17:14  |  Lynn 27/06/08
  13.   They thought it was a good plan 17:14  |  Marko Rauhamaa 27/06/08
  14.   # 10 Rachel Stevens...google Chalabi 17:15  |  Lynn 27/06/08
  15.   Dror on the Saudis 17:39  |  Ronnie Wolman 27/06/08
  16.   Re: Rachel Stevens #10 17:43  |  Guy From NYC 27/06/08
  17.   # 12, LYNN 17:51  |  indrajaya 27/06/08
  18.   How critical is the situation? 17:57  |  Ronnie Wolman 27/06/08
  19.   Assasinating Saddam would have been easier 18:01  |  Dror 27/06/08
  20.   Klein is a traitor to America: does he sell oil or something? 18:03  |  Realist 27/06/08
  21.   #17 Dror 18:20  |  Rachel Stevens 27/06/08
  22.   America staying in Iraq 18:21  |  Dror 27/06/08
  23.   America`s strategic benefit for Israel 18:31  |  Dror 27/06/08
  24.   Lieberman`s problem 18:37  |  Ronnie Wolman 27/06/08
  25.   Did you understand the article? (Jeff Northridge #41) 19:21  |  Tosefta 27/06/08
  26.   whining about it just makes it worse 19:32  |  Pablo B 27/06/08
  27.   Lynn #12 -Chalabi-Schmalabi 19:34  |  John Syracuse 27/06/08
  28.   Dror: America in Iraq bad for Israel 19:44  |  Ahmad 27/06/08
  29.   Dror the Americans are not between Iran and Israel 20:11  |  Ronnie Wolman 27/06/08
  30.   NeoCONS are NOT JEWS! 22:49  |  Jeff 27/06/08
  31.   The Iraq War 23:00  |  Yosemite 27/06/08
  32.   Peak OIl 00:23  |  Mike 28/06/08
  33.   Klein is partially right but Lieberman is not a Neocon 00:24  |  Czarkazem 28/06/08
  34.   Tosefta #8 Jews and neocons 00:40  |  Stanley 28/06/08
  35.   I DIDNT KNOW 01:16  |  TOBIA 28/06/08
  36.   WHYdont you tell that to Christans #4 01:36  |  TOBIA 28/06/08
  37.   Stanley #34 03:24  |  Tosefta 28/06/08
  38.   4,000 American soldiers are worth 1 Israeli 04:41  |  US Guy 28/06/08
  39.   The truth is...... 05:14  |  Janice 28/06/08
  40.   Divided Loyalties 06:22  |  Marlin Vis 28/06/08
  41.   AIPAC Pushed Attack on Iraq; Fact not "Smear"! 06:48  |  Gray 28/06/08
  42.   Divided Loyalties only for Jews... 07:09  |  Edithann 28/06/08
  43.   neocon "outrage" here TOTALLY insincere – SHAME!!! 07:19  |  Proudest Zionist 28/06/08
  44.   imagine, imagine, imagine... 07:26  |  Absolute Israel 28/06/08
  45.   Tosefta #34 An apology 07:45  |  Stanley 28/06/08
  46.   as to Edithann`s post (#42) 08:28  |  Proudest Zionist 28/06/08
  47.   Loyalites 09:01  |  Dead GI 28/06/08
  48.   Can a Jewish American oppose the war without 10:44  |  ghostoflutherblisset 28/06/08
  49.   Joe Klien makes devided loyalties an artform 11:13  |  New York 28/06/08
  50.   For me, if the U.S. left Iraq,there would be a Sunni,Shia blood b 11:57  |  New York 28/06/08
  51.   #8, Tosefta 12:52  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 28/06/08
  52.   charges of double loyalty are the oldest antisemitic canard 13:08  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 28/06/08
  53.   "dommino theory" 13:11  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 28/06/08
  54.   Klein`s position is clearly antisemitic 13:27  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 28/06/08
  55.   Divided Loyalties and Responsibility 14:23  |  Ronnie Wolman 28/06/08
  56.   Edith ann:Not Understanding the Reality 14:38  |  Ronnie Wolman 28/06/08
  57.   stanley of monterey 15:24  |  harzion 28/06/08
  58.   tosefta we do not like your pscychotic need 15:36  |  harzion 28/06/08
  59.   tosefta to stanley of monterey 15:51  |  harzion 28/06/08
  60.   cjk 50 16:31  |  potobac 28/06/08
  61.   The Iraq War 17:37  |  Raanan Geberer 28/06/08
  62.   George Bush, Not the Jews 17:39  |  Question Mark 28/06/08
  63.   #46 Dual Loyalists... 18:18  |  Edithann 28/06/08
  64.   #52..Dual loyalties are always a problem 18:33  |  Edithann 28/06/08
  65.   All these denials by Zionist Jews is getting tiresome 18:38  |  Joe 28/06/08
  66.   THE MOST PATHETIC AMERICAN JEWS 18:44  |  PhiloEvraios 28/06/08
  67.   Wrong question 19:15  |  Frank 28/06/08
  68.   # 27 John Syracuse....I`m not denying Rumsfeld`s role 19:40  |  Lynn 28/06/08
  69.   the people around him #5 22:57  |  hollingsworth 28/06/08
  70.   How was and is the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the 23:20  |  ARTH 28/06/08
  71.   ARTH: How? 01:25  |  Conversations 29/06/08
  72.   Where Rosner goes wrong in his thinking 02:40  |  Stanley 29/06/08
  73.   as to Edithann`s subsequent posts (#53, #54) [Part I of II] 02:42  |  Proudest Zionist 29/06/08
  74.   as to Edithann`s posts [Part II of II] (POSSIBLY A REPEAT POST) 03:20  |  Proudest Zionist 29/06/08
  75.   #55 Joe 03:38  |  Proudest Zionist 29/06/08
  76.   AIPAC, American Jews and loyalty. 04:23  |  Gray 29/06/08
  77.   Gray 05:49  |  Question Mark 29/06/08
  78.   Support Israel. Oppose the war. 05:57  |  MichaeF 29/06/08
  79.   #2 - indrajaya 06:00  |  MichaeF 29/06/08
  80.   Gray #65 Antisemetic? 06:03  |  Stanley 29/06/08
  81.   #68 - Gray 06:09  |  MichaelF 29/06/08
  82.   Klein`s comments are worrisome 07:53  |  sg 29/06/08
  83.   #81, sg, people like Klein only care about themselves 08:29  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 29/06/08
  84.   MichaeF #s78&79 we are apparently touching 09:18  |  Stanley 29/06/08
  85.   Is Joe Klein ever honest when he makes his 15:47  |  ARTH 29/06/08
  86.   Jews 16:43  |  Dami 29/06/08
  87.   Janice # 39 17:18  |  Abraham 29/06/08
  88.   %56 yes it could happen... 18:18  |  Edithann 29/06/08
  89.   The no-fly zones adequately protected Israel 20:04  |  DJStahl 29/06/08
  90.   Michael F. Re: AIPAC Support for War 20:29  |  Gray 29/06/08
  91.   AIPAC beat the drums for Iraq War 21:26  |  John 29/06/08
  92.   #73 Are Jews Intellectually dishonest?.. 21:29  |  Edithann 29/06/08
  93.   Michael F. Support Whom and why? 21:56  |  Gray 29/06/08
  94.   Haaretz 22:11  |  Question Mark 29/06/08
  95.   Klein - Creepy Little Lefty "Good Jew" 22:35  |  Tod Zuckerman 29/06/08
  96.   John, Gray 22:54  |  Question Mark 29/06/08
  97.   Question Mark: Explane Kohr`s quote; want another? 23:56  |  Gray 29/06/08
  98.   Dual Loyalties 03:29  |  Hank N Tennessee 30/06/08
  99.   the iraq war 03:30  |  ed sacks 30/06/08
  100.   Gray 04:03  |  Question Mark 30/06/08
  101.   Gray, Continued 04:14  |  Question Mark 30/06/08
  102.   Gray, Continued, Part 2 04:48  |  Question Mark 30/06/08
  103.   most american jews 05:39  |  omar 30/06/08
  104.   AIPAC and log-rolling 05:56  |  DJStahl 30/06/08
  105.   #97 Gray Second Attempt 10:08  |  Question Mark 30/06/08
  106.   #97 Gray Continued Second Attempt 10:22  |  Question Mark 30/06/08
  107.   Left Wing Jews 11:49  |  US CITIZEN 30/06/08
  108.   Lieberman the neo-con 16:08  |  Sol 30/06/08
  109.   Question M and dj Stahl 18:36  |  Gray 30/06/08
  110.   Gray 19:05  |  Question Mark 30/06/08
  111.   Gray, Continued 19:14  |  Question Mark 30/06/08
  112.   numerically, Jews in power supported war 03:32  |  Secular 01/07/08
  113.   Numerically, "Secular"... 07:47  |  sg 01/07/08
  114.   Edithann 08:41  |  madprof 01/07/08
  115.   Feith - smartest guy? In a room full or idiots 09:04  |  Dire Lobo 01/07/08
  116.   #71 10:55  |  ARTH 01/07/08
  117.   Madprof 19:37  |  Edithann 01/07/08
  118.   Re #109, 113 "numerically," etc. 22:49  |  DJStahl 01/07/08
  119.   Resurgent anti-semitism 23:44  |  Nathaniel 01/07/08
  120.   The peace analogy 11:37  |  Colin Wright 02/07/08
  121.   Dual loyalty, please. As Allan Greenspan said in his book , its 13:08  |  steve-NYC 02/07/08
  122.   #2 Indrayaja a "fact" for you! I live in California 22:08  |  Big Sur 02/07/08
  123.   Are Christians Dishonest#92 they burn Crosses on front lawns 22:16  |  Big Sur 02/07/08
  124.   #117 Edithann , I am not a dancing Israeli or dANCING jEW. 22:22  |  Big Sur 02/07/08
  125.   Joe Klien and Time Mag 13:11  |  yona schear 04/07/08
  126.   who to blame this time? 06:35  |  amazed american 06/07/08
  127.   logic 21:16  |  lenny ruderman 06/07/08
  128.   You`re making a false argument, Rosner. 07:08  |  Che Vive 07/07/08
  129.   No, Rosner is using religion as a cover for nation 13:50  |  Pete Eriksen 07/07/08
  130.   #124 you really don`t know anything.... 06:13  |  Edithann.. 23/07/08


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