Last update - 00:00 14/02/2008
Ballistic expert: Israel ignoring option of U.S. anti-rocket system
By Yossi Melman , Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Iron Dome , Israel , Qassam
Dr. Nathan Farber is a ballistic expert who has been persistently trying, to no avail, to present to the Defense Ministry what he sees as a possibly imminent solution to Qassam fire from Gaza.
Farber's suggestion is to deploy American artillery batteries called Phalanx around the Qassam-battered town of Sderot, to intercept the rockets fired by Palestinians.
The U.S. army has been successfully operating the system in Iraq, where it provides its bases with protection from rockets and mortar shells. Canada is also considering deploying it in Afghanistan.
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Farber told Haaretz his suggestion should not be rejected out of hand. He said that the system could be tested with a budget of no more than $1 million, even in the "battlefield" itself, by deploying one or two Phalanx batteries near Sderot.
But for some reason the Defense Ministry maintains his suggestion is impracticable, although it has never been tested.
Farber is not an eccentric - his credentials include vast knowledge of and experience in shells and ballistics. He is an accredited aeronautical engineer, a lecturer at the Technion, Israel's Institute of Technology, and a veteran of the Israel Military Industries (IMI).
When his tenure as the IMI missile department's chief scientist ended, he worked as an advisor to the Israel Air Force and the American Missile Defense Administration. Previously, he had been an IAF anti-aircraft officer and later senior intelligence officer.
The Phalanx anti-aircraft artillery system, manufactured by the American Reytheon company, was initially developed for battleships.
A Phalanx battery includes four 20mm-wide shells and radar that tracks the missile, assesses its trajectory and intercepts it from a range of up to a 1.5 km.
Unlike any other system, Phalanx is capable of firing up to 6,000 shells per minute, which are twice as fast as a Qassam rocket (with a speed of more than a kilometer per second). As of today, the system is installed in some IDF battleships.
Farber claims that five batteries will adequately cover the western Negev, and will not cause environmental damage. "Because of their exceptionally high speed, the shells that don't hit Qassams will land in the sea," he said, "although the chances of a direct hit are high."
For years the security establishment has stymied any initiative to develop short- and medium-range missile interception systems, claiming they were wasteful and of questionable efficiency.
Even after the Second Lebanon War, during which the missile threat on Israel's home front materialized, the Defense Ministry remained resolute. An expert panel, headed by then Defense Ministry director general Gaby Ashkenazi (the incumbent Chief of Staff), was eventually set up, following pressure exerted by then defense minister Amir Peretz.
The panel decided to commission Rafael Arms Development Authority to develop two interception systems: Iron Dome, for short-range rockets (like Qassams and Katyushas) and Magic Wand for long-range missiles (up to 200 km), to be developed in conjunction with Reytheon.
A shadow of malpractice was cast on the decision to allocate a development budget of over NIS 1 billion to Rafael, as one of the panel members, Yedidya Yaari, was the former managing director of the authority.
The problem remains that Iron Dome will be operative within three years at the earliest.
"Why not deploy Phalanx batteries in the meanwhile, and protect the residents of Sderot?" asks Farber.
"It will be cheaper, no less efficient, and above all provide immediate protection. If it's good enough for the Americans in Iraq, why can't it be good for us?"
The Defense Ministry provided no definite answer as to why Farber's suggestion hasn't been considered.
A spokesman said that "while the development of Iron Dome is underway, the security establishment continues to consider other options, including the American LUWD system. So far, we haven't found a system that meets our demands, but we continue to look into newly developed as well as existing systems."
Former deputy defense minister Ephraim Sneh said that the Ashkenazi Commission considered every available option and made its decision on a "purely professional basis. The allegations that financial motives were at issue are malicious."
Related articles:
2 brothers, 8 and 19, seriously hurt in Qassam strike in Sderot
IDF bombs Gaza buildings used for rocket launching
Barak says ministerial calls for action in Gaza are 'dangerous'
1.
Very Strange Why No Defence System
Very Strange Why No Defence System
13:42
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Phil
14/02/08
2.
The citizen says, obviously not enough grease...
The citizen says, obviously not enough grease...
13:57
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Joe Sittizen
14/02/08
3.
Article full of errors and inaccuracies
Article full of errors and inaccuracies
14:09
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Axel
14/02/08
4.
Not so strange when Americans die due to
Not so strange when Americans die due to
14:15
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Petra
14/02/08
5.
Not surprising - Sephardim seem more expendable
Not surprising - Sephardim seem more expendable
14:16
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Sephardi
14/02/08
6.
It is not strange Phil
It is not strange Phil
14:17
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Dror
14/02/08
7.
Why Bother?
Why Bother?
14:18
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Bill Foonman
14/02/08
8.
Olmert scared Phalanx projectiles`d hit precious pals
Olmert scared Phalanx projectiles`d hit precious pals
14:43
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Absolute Sweden
14/02/08
9.
1.5 km range doesn`t protect
1.5 km range doesn`t protect
14:44
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MOSHE
14/02/08
10.
Typical Israeli stubborness
Typical Israeli stubborness
14:45
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Josh
14/02/08
11.
Israel`s reluctance to engage
Israel`s reluctance to engage
14:46
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dropoutguy
14/02/08
12.
A system I suggested last week
A system I suggested last week
14:48
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Chris Linthwaite
14/02/08
13.
Petra. Not so amazing really #4
Petra. Not so amazing really #4
14:49
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examiner
14/02/08
14.
THE ROYAL NAVY CRACKED IT IN 1982
THE ROYAL NAVY CRACKED IT IN 1982
14:57
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Ian
14/02/08
15.
nothing will happen until some Govt. member bribed
nothing will happen until some Govt. member bribed
15:02
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bribe somebody
14/02/08
16.
"Chris" Yoýne Lintwit,it served Brit colonial interests to be V2
"Chris" Yoýne Lintwit,it served Brit colonial interests to be V2
15:08
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Absolute Sweden
14/02/08
17.
How about the ""option"" of wiping out Hamas?
How about the ""option"" of wiping out Hamas?
15:30
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A.Dolt
14/02/08
18.
we DEMAND an explanation from the IDF
we DEMAND an explanation from the IDF
15:33
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read #14 (Ian)
14/02/08
19.
Israel likes the Rockets
Israel likes the Rockets
15:46
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Sidney
14/02/08
20.
On the Royal Navy and Exocets # 14
On the Royal Navy and Exocets # 14
15:46
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Clickfool
14/02/08
21.
Why is this strange? Olmert is dumb & Barak is a moron.
Why is this strange? Olmert is dumb & Barak is a moron.
15:47
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Gary A., MD
14/02/08
22.
Alex one question?
Alex one question?
15:51
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Gabriel
14/02/08
23.
Total False Hope
Total False Hope
16:02
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Stan
14/02/08
24.
Advice for Absolute Sweden # 15
Advice for Absolute Sweden # 15
16:03
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Clickfool
14/02/08
25.
Stupid Israeli defense establishment
Stupid Israeli defense establishment
16:14
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Dror
14/02/08
26.
Uranium
Uranium
16:17
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Leib Heller
14/02/08
27.
ashkenazi more white than shephardi.
ashkenazi more white than shephardi.
16:18
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bozhidar balkas
14/02/08
28.
Ballistic expert
Ballistic expert
16:22
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Mary
14/02/08
29.
A Worthless System That So Far Has Only Managed
A Worthless System That So Far Has Only Managed
16:30
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Eli
14/02/08
30.
response #3
response #3
16:38
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tps
14/02/08
31.
Malfeasance & corruption continue among the KROOKS...
Malfeasance & corruption continue among the KROOKS...
16:38
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bat yam
14/02/08
32.
Please don`t tell me what to do. I know what is best for Israel.
Please don`t tell me what to do. I know what is best for Israel.
16:46
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ehud olmert
14/02/08
33.
Debris, Moshe
Debris, Moshe
16:48
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Dror
14/02/08
34.
#23 Haaretz allows this anti-Semitic crap?
#23 Haaretz allows this anti-Semitic crap?
17:00
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Moshe
14/02/08
35.
Dror Shalom_Don`t Be Quick To Condemn!
Dror Shalom_Don`t Be Quick To Condemn!
17:04
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Eli
14/02/08
36.
#15 Absolute Swede
#15 Absolute Swede
17:04
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Chris Linthwaite
14/02/08
37.
#19 Stan
#19 Stan
17:07
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Chris Linthwaite
14/02/08
38.
here`s what I found
here`s what I found
17:09
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Harry
14/02/08
39.
Eli of Berkeley
Eli of Berkeley
17:10
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Chris Linthwaite
14/02/08
40.
This guy doesn`t have a clue
This guy doesn`t have a clue
17:10
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Mark Lincoln
14/02/08
41.
response to #22
response to #22
17:11
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tps
14/02/08
42.
Israel should use it
Israel should use it
17:11
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Brod
14/02/08
43.
Not so fast my friend
Not so fast my friend
17:12
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Lee Corso
14/02/08
44.
Sderot perimeter is not that big an area
Sderot perimeter is not that big an area
17:13
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Dror
14/02/08
45.
20clickidiot-"...Time to take your little yellow tablets..."
20clickidiot-"...Time to take your little yellow tablets..."
17:16
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there is always hope
14/02/08
46.
Why?
Why?
17:17
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Al
14/02/08
47.
What is this?
What is this?
17:18
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Dror
14/02/08
48.
Not an option - could cause more injuries than qassams
Not an option - could cause more injuries than qassams
17:19
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Free Gilad Shalit
14/02/08
49.
Read #19
Read #19
17:19
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Gili
14/02/08
50.
Yes its called a sense of reality. Dolt!
Yes its called a sense of reality. Dolt!
17:19
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Al
14/02/08
51.
TO PHIL #1
TO PHIL #1
17:22
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Steve Beikirch
14/02/08
52.
# 18 gabriel
# 18 gabriel
17:25
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Axel
14/02/08
53.
Israeli corporate government as bad as america`s corporate govt.
Israeli corporate government as bad as america`s corporate govt.
17:27
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Dror
14/02/08
54.
# 22 leib heller
# 22 leib heller
17:29
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Axel
14/02/08
55.
Don`t expect a running buffalo to hit a bee!
Don`t expect a running buffalo to hit a bee!
17:34
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The Archives
14/02/08
56.
Better Would Be THEL
Better Would Be THEL
17:40
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Jeff Northridge
14/02/08
57.
crystal clear
crystal clear
17:43
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Space
14/02/08
58.
Gabriel
Gabriel
17:51
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ODP1
14/02/08
59.
No game this...
No game this...
17:54
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Esther
14/02/08
60.
Phalanx
Phalanx
18:02
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Ron
14/02/08
61.
Enough of "Phalanx" silliness! System is useless against kassams
Enough of "Phalanx" silliness! System is useless against kassams
18:05
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Dr. L. Brnd
14/02/08
62.
# 26
# 26
18:13
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Axel
14/02/08
63.
28 Jeff you forgot to mention that...
28 Jeff you forgot to mention that...
18:15
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bat yam
14/02/08
64.
O Yes Haaretz the PHALANX
O Yes Haaretz the PHALANX
18:31
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Gil
14/02/08
65.
IDF is arrogant
IDF is arrogant
18:33
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David
14/02/08
66.
anti-rocket ability?
anti-rocket ability?
18:37
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H.H.M
14/02/08
67.
Anti-Rocket System
Anti-Rocket System
18:37
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P. J. Casey
14/02/08
68.
Sderot residents will not be guinea-pigs in testing such flawed d
Sderot residents will not be guinea-pigs in testing such flawed d
18:42
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Free Gilad Shalit
14/02/08
69.
Chris Linthwaite and idiotic claims
Chris Linthwaite and idiotic claims
18:52
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Free Gilad Shalit
14/02/08
70.
The limitations of point defense systems
The limitations of point defense systems
19:16
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Voice of Reason
14/02/08
71.
Space you belong in Lebanon with your conspiracy theory
Space you belong in Lebanon with your conspiracy theory
19:18
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Margie in Tel Aviv
14/02/08
72.
For Gil who loves MTHEL # 33
For Gil who loves MTHEL # 33
19:29
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Clickfool
14/02/08
73.
So? why not the MTHEL?
So? why not the MTHEL?
19:35
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Dror
14/02/08
74.
#39 - Space
#39 - Space
19:37
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MichaelF
14/02/08
75.
#51 Free Gilad Shalit
#51 Free Gilad Shalit
19:46
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Chris Linthwaite
14/02/08
76.
# 38 jeff
# 38 jeff
19:48
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Axel
14/02/08
77.
#44 Dr L Brnd
#44 Dr L Brnd
19:50
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Chris Linthwaite
14/02/08
78.
#51 Free Gilad Shalit
#51 Free Gilad Shalit
19:53
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Paul Wood
14/02/08
79.
Anti Qassam System
Anti Qassam System
20:04
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Joel tTalmor
14/02/08
80.
#20 CLICKNEBECH YOU`RE WRONG AGAIN
#20 CLICKNEBECH YOU`RE WRONG AGAIN
20:18
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Ian
14/02/08
81.
IDF should provide reasons not to deploy Phalanx
IDF should provide reasons not to deploy Phalanx
20:28
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B (The other one)
14/02/08
82.
TO Chris Linthwaite #77 (#44 Dr L Brnd)
TO Chris Linthwaite #77 (#44 Dr L Brnd)
20:30
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Steve Beikirch
14/02/08
83.
Clickfool MTHEL
Clickfool MTHEL
20:34
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Gil
14/02/08
84.
Clickfool MTHEL
Clickfool MTHEL
20:35
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Gil
14/02/08
85.
Prblem is that Rafael has monopoly over home land
Prblem is that Rafael has monopoly over home land
20:41
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IL supporter
14/02/08
86.
Petra #4 - Different Understanding
Petra #4 - Different Understanding
20:45
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DoubleClick
14/02/08
87.
DROR why not
DROR why not
20:52
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Gil
14/02/08
88.
Phalanx System
Phalanx System
20:53
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Scott Havsy
14/02/08
89.
Margie (re:space)
Margie (re:space)
21:00
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Guido
14/02/08
90.
23 Stan - Not False Hope
23 Stan - Not False Hope
21:07
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Mark of Lewiston
14/02/08
91.
The questions that surround Northrop-Grumman`s MTHEL
The questions that surround Northrop-Grumman`s MTHEL
21:12
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Clickfool
14/02/08
92.
40 Mark Lincoln - Just Sderot, NOT Western Negev
40 Mark Lincoln - Just Sderot, NOT Western Negev
21:14
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Mark of Lewiston
14/02/08
93.
$1MM to test
$1MM to test
21:17
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Ruven
14/02/08
94.
Irans double speed of production
Irans double speed of production
21:43
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Paul
14/02/08
95.
Clickfool (#90) The Answer is neither
Clickfool (#90) The Answer is neither
21:46
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Gil
14/02/08
96.
28 mary the ballistic expert. Those firecrackers
28 mary the ballistic expert. Those firecrackers
21:46
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common sense
14/02/08
97.
HAHA!
HAHA!
21:46
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Paul
14/02/08
98.
Clickfool The Answer is neither
Clickfool The Answer is neither
21:46
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Gil
14/02/08
99.
For Gil, on the MTHEL system # 98
For Gil, on the MTHEL system # 98
22:22
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Clickfool
14/02/08
100.
SIMPLE EXPLANATION
SIMPLE EXPLANATION
23:02
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Chicago Arab
14/02/08
101.
Dror - you don`t understand
Dror - you don`t understand
23:02
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Mark Lincoln
14/02/08
102.
L. Brnd - this is not the ship based CIWS
L. Brnd - this is not the ship based CIWS
23:11
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Mark Lincoln
14/02/08
103.
Mark of Lewiston - Iron Dome a better concept
Mark of Lewiston - Iron Dome a better concept
23:21
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Mark Lincoln
14/02/08
104.
Vicious is to Build a Fortress while the enemy is within the Fami
Vicious is to Build a Fortress while the enemy is within the Fami
23:22
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Joseph . E
14/02/08
105.
I quoted the article about "western negev." - MoL
I quoted the article about "western negev." - MoL
23:25
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Mark Lincoln
14/02/08
106.
103 Mark Lincoln - A Bird in the Hand
103 Mark Lincoln - A Bird in the Hand
23:34
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Mark of Lewiston
14/02/08
107.
The gov. of Israel gone Ballistic--so they cannot understand the
The gov. of Israel gone Ballistic--so they cannot understand the
23:34
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Sal
14/02/08
108.
# 102 Mark Lincoln
# 102 Mark Lincoln
23:36
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Axel
14/02/08
109.
Phalanx
Phalanx
23:38
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Stan Durkin
14/02/08
110.
build a huge new prison for Arab terrorists in Sderot.
build a huge new prison for Arab terrorists in Sderot.
23:53
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10k Arab terrorists
14/02/08
111.
#103 Lincoln - Iron dome has been around for years
#103 Lincoln - Iron dome has been around for years
23:59
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* BEN JABO
14/02/08
112.
Clickfool (#99) better then nothing
Clickfool (#99) better then nothing
00:03
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Gil
15/02/08
113.
Clickfool (#99) better then nothing
Clickfool (#99) better then nothing
00:04
|
Gil
15/02/08
114.
#82,102 - any weapon only hitting 10% of kassams is no "defense"
#82,102 - any weapon only hitting 10% of kassams is no "defense"
00:10
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Dr. L. Brnd
15/02/08
115.
the system is installed in some IDF battleships.
the system is installed in some IDF battleships.
00:21
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Shneor
15/02/08
116.
What Arabs think of rocket defence? Do they object?
What Arabs think of rocket defence? Do they object?
00:21
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Rick and TC
15/02/08
117.
Israel`s hand grenades lying around in Bethlehem.
Israel`s hand grenades lying around in Bethlehem.
00:26
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Maureen Ann
15/02/08
118.
Ben Jabo. Breaking news... another mass shooting...
Ben Jabo. Breaking news... another mass shooting...
00:50
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Maureen Ann
15/02/08
119.
Rick and TC (#116) not duplicity at all!
Rick and TC (#116) not duplicity at all!
00:57
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Gil
15/02/08
120.
#103 Trying to understand your objection, Mark
#103 Trying to understand your objection, Mark
01:06
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Johnboy
15/02/08
121.
Maureen Ann (#117) what do you want from us
Maureen Ann (#117) what do you want from us
01:09
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Gil
15/02/08
122.
#117 Maureen Ann - He was 18, should have known better
#117 Maureen Ann - He was 18, should have known better
01:39
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* BEN JABO
15/02/08
123.
#114 Dr L Brnd
#114 Dr L Brnd
01:41
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Chris Linthwaite
15/02/08
124.
#117-2 Maureen Ann - try and be honest
#117-2 Maureen Ann - try and be honest
02:03
|
* BEN JABO
15/02/08
125.
#Ben Jabo. Read your post... carefully.
#Ben Jabo. Read your post... carefully.
02:05
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Maureen Ann
15/02/08
126.
sidney 19 has a point
sidney 19 has a point
02:28
|
rod
15/02/08
127.
#125 Maureen Ann
#125 Maureen Ann
02:29
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* BEN JABO
15/02/08
128.
Axel - "effective range"
Axel - "effective range"
02:41
|
Mark Lincoln
15/02/08
129.
Johnboy - my objections
Johnboy - my objections
02:52
|
Mark Lincoln
15/02/08
130.
Chris Linthwaite - nostrums and defenses
Chris Linthwaite - nostrums and defenses
02:58
|
Mark Lincoln
15/02/08
131.
What about Rocket Defense - Rick and TC
What about Rocket Defense - Rick and TC
03:04
|
Mark Lincoln
15/02/08
132.
Civil Planes Vital Safety Precaution
Civil Planes Vital Safety Precaution
04:50
|
The Archives
15/02/08
133.
#131 That is indeed the rub, Mark Lincon
#131 That is indeed the rub, Mark Lincon
04:59
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Johnboy
15/02/08
134.
#118 Maureen Ann - I heard the news before you did
#118 Maureen Ann - I heard the news before you did
05:10
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* BEN JABO
15/02/08
135.
Johnny Boy - money, politics and reality
Johnny Boy - money, politics and reality
05:37
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Mark Lincoln
15/02/08
136.
War = Money
War = Money
05:44
|
Mark Lincoln
15/02/08
137.
#134 Ben Jabo. "I heard the news before you did."
#134 Ben Jabo. "I heard the news before you did."
06:07
|
Maureen Ann
15/02/08
138.
MTHEL systems not feasible
MTHEL systems not feasible
07:14
|
The Archives
15/02/08
139.
CAMPS Victory& Falcon have been hit by enemy missiles,mortars etc
CAMPS Victory& Falcon have been hit by enemy missiles,mortars etc
07:18
|
PETER SM
15/02/08
140.
Gazan Hamas not a world class exporter of weaponry
Gazan Hamas not a world class exporter of weaponry
07:22
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avigdor
15/02/08
141.
ARE there any published tests of this system available
ARE there any published tests of this system available
07:23
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PETER SM
15/02/08
142.
Drawback of Phalanx systems
Drawback of Phalanx systems
07:26
|
The Archives
15/02/08
143.
Mayor Moyal, save Sderot by proposing to build a prison for Arab
Mayor Moyal, save Sderot by proposing to build a prison for Arab
07:26
|
avigdor
15/02/08
144.
#135 Mark Lincoln - it ain`t necessarily "all or nothing"
#135 Mark Lincoln - it ain`t necessarily "all or nothing"
07:52
|
Johnboy
15/02/08
145.
#135 - Mark - Israel has a resource gap
#135 - Mark - Israel has a resource gap
09:03
|
spyguy
15/02/08
146.
#136 Mark - US has no Money left!
#136 Mark - US has no Money left!
09:11
|
spyguy
15/02/08
147.
For Gil on MTHEL again # 112
For Gil on MTHEL again # 112
09:26
|
Clickfool
15/02/08
148.
thank you dr. farber! for seconding my motion!
thank you dr. farber! for seconding my motion!
09:35
|
eric
15/02/08
149.
141 Peter SM - Balad Airbase, Iraq
141 Peter SM - Balad Airbase, Iraq
10:11
|
Mark of Lewiston
15/02/08
150.
The Archives (#138) solvable
The Archives (#138) solvable
13:20
|
Gil
15/02/08
151.
Clickfool (#147) Have you heard of the word stupidity
Clickfool (#147) Have you heard of the word stupidity
13:23
|
Gil
15/02/08
152.
Clickfool (#147) Have you heard of the word stupidity
Clickfool (#147) Have you heard of the word stupidity
15:01
|
Gil
15/02/08
153.
#117-3 MAUREEN ANN -SHAME ON U
#117-3 MAUREEN ANN -SHAME ON U
16:14
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* BEN JABO
15/02/08
154.
#134 Ben
#134 Ben
18:23
|
Chicago Arab
15/02/08
155.
Whats the opposite?
Whats the opposite?
21:52
|
Paul
15/02/08
156.
solutions to the "Qussams"
solutions to the "Qussams"
22:29
|
Tommi
15/02/08
157.
Sderot - 1st try 02:42 HT
Sderot - 1st try 02:42 HT
02:42
|
BBSNews
16/02/08
158.
#152 Chicago Arab
#152 Chicago Arab
05:58
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* BEN JABO
16/02/08
159.
Jabo on CCW - 1st try 09:16 HT
Jabo on CCW - 1st try 09:16 HT
09:16
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BBSNews
16/02/08
160.
Why it is better to wait for IRON DOME, than using PHALANX.
Why it is better to wait for IRON DOME, than using PHALANX.
19:06
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Becky
16/02/08
161.
Why it is better to wait for IRON DOME, than using PHALANX.
Why it is better to wait for IRON DOME, than using PHALANX.
19:06
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Becky
16/02/08
162.
POLITICAL???
POLITICAL???
19:18
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Ben.Amir
16/02/08
163.
Winograd Committee Report
Winograd Committee Report
19:36
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The Director
16/02/08
164.
#159 BBS news - Bulletin Board Scavengers
#159 BBS news - Bulletin Board Scavengers
20:52
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* BEN JABO
16/02/08
165.
Jabo - 1st try 23:10 HT
Jabo - 1st try 23:10 HT
23:10
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BBSNews
16/02/08
166.
# 161 that`s exactly WHY israel is waiting, becky
# 161 that`s exactly WHY israel is waiting, becky
06:00
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eric
17/02/08
167.
It all sounds like politics, meanwhile missles continue to be sen
It all sounds like politics, meanwhile missles continue to be sen
08:31
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Sam
25/03/08
168.
GO, DEFENSE!
GO, DEFENSE!
20:01
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Janet Pinter
05/07/08
169.
Battleships??? Israel doesn`t have any 40,000 ton "Battlleships"!
Battleships??? Israel doesn`t have any 40,000 ton "Battlleships"!
06:02
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Scott
07/07/08
170.
Weapons system - Just ask the US - NOW
Weapons system - Just ask the US - NOW
11:34
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Jack
07/07/08
171.
DO YOU THINK FOR ONE MINUTE MERT/BARAK ARE GOING TO SURROND
DO YOU THINK FOR ONE MINUTE MERT/BARAK ARE GOING TO SURROND
17:14
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glenna
08/07/08
172.
If Total war on Gaza, first you have to ...
If Total war on Gaza, first you have to ...
07:26
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Berta
27/03/09