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Last update - 00:00 04/05/2006
The lie of victory
By Bradley Burston
Tags: Palestinians, Mideast 

We love the smell of victory in the morning.

It smells like ... a lie.

It smells like the lies we tell ourselves to ward off the terrible fear that our side may be, to some extent, mistaken, and our enemy may, to some extent, have a point.

It smells like the self-satisfaction with which we extol our virtuousness, our sacrifice, our very selflessness - all the while reducing the enemy to an abstraction, a caricature of bad intentions and vile deeds.

It smells like the near-erotic, near-narcotic rush that our hotheads get from extremism, especially the narcissistically heroic partisans who live nowhere near here.

It's a coping mechanism, this lying to ourselves. It's a defense mechanism, this lying to others. Who could blame us? Life here is hard, on both sides.

Where the truth hurts, a lie anesthetizes.

It could be argued that, since we tend to believe half-truths with our whole hearts, these are not lies at all.

Whatever we choose to call them, these tenets of suspended disbelief refuse to die.

So let us celebrate them for what they are: glorious crutches, magnificent stumbling blocks, our slippery rock, our inept redeemer.

Of all the lies, the lie of victory is surely the most insidious. It says to us - Israeli and Palestinian as one - that if we were to apply more firepower, endure more punishment, display more unity, take a harder line throughout - we will gain a final, permanent, satisfying victory over the other.

It is, like all of our lies, alluring. It is, in fact, the most alluring, perhaps because it is composed of all the others.

The Top 10 Lies We Live By:

10. The lie of We Were Here First

What Palestinians tell themselves: We are the descendants of the Canaanites, we were here before you. We are the heirs of Ishmael, the first son of Abraham. Your claims to be the descendants of the Hebrews are specious. You are Russians, Americans, Khazars. We were here before you. We have been here forever. Nothing can make us leave.

What Israelis tell themselves: We are the direct and genuine heirs of Abraham, who willed his inheritance to his son Isaac, whose son took the name Israel. Your claims to be Canaanites are specious. Many of you came from neighboring Arab lands a few generations ago. We were here before you. We have been here forever. Nothing can make us leave.

9. The lie of the State They Don't Deserve

Right-wing Israeli version: There is no such entity as a Palestine, and no Palestinian people, as such. They are artificial constructs, to serve the aim of ousting the Jews from their land. Moreover, terror has shown them undeserving of a state.

Militant Palestinian version: The Jews are a foreign growth in the body of Palestine. They came here from Europe and America, expelling Palestinians in the process, and it is time for both to return to their respective homes. The state of the Zionists is illegal, it is build on land that was part of the nation of Islam, and will not endure.

The truth: [Leaving alone the circumstance that most Israelis are native-born, and many trace their roots to Muslim countries from which their ancestors were expelled]

The principle of self-determination and the history of national movements, to say nothing of the development of Zionism and the Palestinian statehood movement, suggest that peoples themselves are empowered to decide if they constitute a people, and if that people legitimately aspires to independence.

This lie is close to, but not the same as:

8. We don't recognize them.

But we do, of course. Hamas talks about Israel incessantly. Israel talks about Hamas in nearly every breath. Then sides have an endless array of go-betweens managing every conceivable aspect of indirect contacts.

This lie is, in turn, similar to but not the same as:

7. There is no partner

The fact is that the lack of a partner serves the needs of both Ehud Olmert and Ismail Haniyeh. Olmert fervently wants to take advantage of the current split personality of the Israeli consensus, which has moved sharply right in its assessment of peace prospects with the Palestinians, and markedly left in its willingness to consider a future West Bank withdrawal.

To leverage this, Olmert has given indications of a preference for unilateralism, a position made much easier by an internationally shunned Hamas government.

At the same time, the last thing Palestinian Prime Minister Haniyeh needs, is to be viewed as a collaborator with Israel. "There is no partner," may have a different meaning when Hamas says it, but the advantage is mutual.

6. The lie of National Socialism.

Palestinian version: They are as bad as the Nazis.
Israeli version: They are as bad as the Nazis.

5. The lie of the Only Language

Both versions: Force is the only language they understand.

4. The lie of will.

Both versions: Our will is stronger than theirs, our cause more rooted, our stubbornness more pronounced, our endurance more bottomless, our tradition more timeless, our defiance more directed, our rage more justified, our presence more entrenched.

3. The lie of revenge

Arguably the hardest lie of all to resist. The lie that suggests that we alone have been wronged, that we have a duty - as well as a gut drive - to avenge that wrong, and that in so doing, we will somehow put an end to the injustice. The lie that masks the fact that the need for revenge is the engine of escalation, the breeder fuel of perpetual war.


2. The lie of victim monopoly

Both versions: We are the world, we are the victims. We kill in self-defense, our enemy kills innocents in cold blood. The moral high ground is clearly ours. The news media are demonstrably biased toward our enemy.

1. The lie of victory

In the Middle East, there is no such thing as victory. Ask George Bush. Ask the victors of the Six Day War. There is no such thing as Mission Accomplished, clear-cut triumph, a simple win.

We want to believe in victory, because the prospect of no hope for triumph, for some meaning to all the suffering, is beyond unbearable. Nonetheless ...

In the Mideast, today's victory is tomorrow's nightmare. In a situation pitting Western concepts of defeat and victory against the Islamist view of martyrdom, no one can win. The best that civilians on both sides can hope for, is a mutual improvement of circumstances, and a truce that -flawed as it may be -somehow manages to hold.
________________________________

Previous blogs:

The war that divided Judaism
Confessions of a legal Jewish settler
The Holocaust - Get over it
The cult of suicide, the culture of failure
PROMOTION: Mamilla Hotel
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Chelsea's Jewish in-laws
Clinton's soon-to-be family includes colorful characters.
Egypt's iron wall
Egypt building massive iron wall along Gaza border to stop smuggling.
  1.   I guess I don`t exist in your world, Bradley... 03:09  |  Asaf 05/05/06
  2.   #1 - self-pity is no substitute for attention 10:10  |  chris 05/05/06
  3.   Power of lies 10:42  |  David Howard 05/05/06
  4.   Arab Jews 10:46  |  ex-syrian 05/05/06
  5.   # 9 bradley 10:46  |  hadag nakhash 05/05/06
  6.   LIES 10:56  |  CHONI 05/05/06
  7.   Clearly we have a lot in common 11:14  |  sh 05/05/06
  8.   The first True,there were not Arabs palestine state in history 11:33  |  e.m 05/05/06
  9.   "Relativity for simpletons" by relatively well paid Burston 11:38  |  Absolute Sweden 05/05/06
  10.   to ex-syrian 11:50  |  John 05/05/06
  11.   To John #10 12:28  |  ex-syrian 05/05/06
  12.   Excellent article 12:35  |  Dave 05/05/06
  13.   Bradley,It doesnt matter what you say... 12:40  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  14.   The trouble with lies... 12:41  |  Edith 05/05/06
  15.   #10 12:41  |  Danny - Israeli one 05/05/06
  16.   #10, the source for these idiotic comments 12:51  |  Danny - Israeli one 05/05/06
  17.   a good precis 13:10  |  Ben S. 05/05/06
  18.   Asaf my brother, Daniel my brother 13:27  |  Dror 05/05/06
  19.   I agree with you Absolut 13:42  |  Dror 05/05/06
  20.   #4 no such thing as arab jew 13:49  |  Dror 05/05/06
  21.   Asaf: Why No Left Sephardim 14:07  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  22.   Dror: I do believe its the ahskenazis that liberated you 14:13  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  23.   "No Sefardi leftists" 14:44  |  sh 05/05/06
  24.   Dror: Expansion 14:46  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  25.   S.African supremacist Wollman pontificates to Asaf 14:55  |  Absolute Sweden 05/05/06
  26.   The Jews are the ones that rebuilt this land 15:06  |  Debbie 05/05/06
  27.   Thank you Bradley, here is the truth!!! 15:37  |  B. Michaels 05/05/06
  28.   I guess I also don`t exist in Bradley`s world 15:47  |  Jane 05/05/06
  29.   Hamas and the Israeli Government need each other 15:50  |  Ibrahim 05/05/06
  30.   Dead on Mr. Burston 16:06  |  Mark Lincoln 05/05/06
  31.   Asaf 16:16  |  Danite 05/05/06
  32.   The lie of victory 16:17  |  julian kaye 05/05/06
  33.   Dror 16:18  |  Danite 05/05/06
  34.   Back to the subject 16:21  |  Danite 05/05/06
  35.   Great Article, Brad & Great Comment, #26 B.Michaels 16:26  |  Darien 05/05/06
  36.   Ronnie Wolman 16:29  |  Bouhadana 05/05/06
  37.   John and lies 16:33  |  Danite 05/05/06
  38.   What will it be? 16:34  |  Greengage Plum 05/05/06
  39.   #20: no "arab jews"?! 16:40  |  Stanislav 05/05/06
  40.   Inaccurate on this one Bradley 16:43  |  Shalom Freedman 05/05/06
  41.   Herr Today Gone Tommorow 16:48  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  42.   Hotel Hell, the endless getaway. 16:54  |  Mike Harp 05/05/06
  43.   # 2 Chris And Thank You Bradley 17:00  |  Asaf 05/05/06
  44.   The Absolut Answer: Herr Today,Gone Tommorow 17:01  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  45.   ironies and paradoxes 17:01  |  stork 05/05/06
  46.   Anyone who agree pls react ! 17:02  |  Lucio 05/05/06
  47.   John # 10 17:23  |  Asaf 05/05/06
  48.   Excellent article - please react 17:24  |  Lucio 05/05/06
  49.   What about the Left Wing Version of Lies 17:32  |  Sam Weinstein 05/05/06
  50.   Zionist American Lying Machine 17:38  |  Peter 05/05/06
  51.   21 - Wollmann 17:46  |  Asaf 05/05/06
  52.   #6 the Chonis rule 17:46  |  hollingsworth 05/05/06
  53.   #27 17:48  |  Danny - Israeli one 05/05/06
  54.   Israel has done more to try to achieve peace 17:58  |  Besalel 05/05/06
  55.   sh # 23 18:11  |  Asaf 05/05/06
  56.   Lies, and the lying liars who tell them 18:19  |  Ben Gurion 05/05/06
  57.   The lie of victory 18:27  |  M.R 05/05/06
  58.   No left Sephardim, no left Russians (Ronnie Wolman #21) 18:32  |  Ben Gurion 05/05/06
  59.   The biggest lie from.John and religin of hate 18:34  |  e.m 05/05/06
  60.   Burston - high on the lie(s) of the arab enemy 18:39  |  pace306 05/05/06
  61.   There is a solution - cut off Arabs` water supply 18:44  |  Me 05/05/06
  62.   Wolman 18:45  |  Bouhadana 05/05/06
  63.   Peter from Sacrameto 18:56  |  Salah A`Din 05/05/06
  64.   no subject, some substance 19:01  |  shai 05/05/06
  65.   # 39 Peter 19:02  |  Shelly 05/05/06
  66.   Be silent, read every line and think 19:07  |  Farhad 05/05/06
  67.   #47 Lying......whatever. 19:08  |  Mike Harp 05/05/06
  68.   Radical Islam is Indeed Evil- It`s No Lie 19:25  |  Jane 05/05/06
  69.   THIS IS THE NEW NIHILISM 19:30  |  Steven Zeluck 05/05/06
  70.   Poor Hollingsworth 19:33  |  Danite 05/05/06
  71.   The biggest lie from.John and religin of hate 19:38  |  e.m 05/05/06
  72.   Burston, the lie of thinking too much of yourself... 19:38  |  Curious George 05/05/06
  73.   The biggest lie from.John and religin of hate 19:39  |  e.m 05/05/06
  74.   Would you please stop your nonsense.Ashkenazy or Sefarady 20:06  |  e.m 05/05/06
  75.   Wolud you please stop your nonsense.Ashkenazy or Sefarady 20:30  |  e.m 05/05/06
  76.   #47 -Peter 20:42  |  Izy 05/05/06
  77.   Bradley Burston 20:47  |  Sydney 05/05/06
  78.   Other issues 21:17  |  JJ Doyle 05/05/06
  79.   Radical right wing religion is the evil Jane 21:41  |  Mark Lincoln 05/05/06
  80.   Bradley Burston :The BIG LIE !! 21:43  |  Maurice 05/05/06
  81.   choni 5 21:43  |  potobac 05/05/06
  82.   No. 41- offensive 21:44  |  True Brit 05/05/06
  83.   danny israeli one 16 21:56  |  potobac 05/05/06
  84.   Openminded detects opportunities 21:57  |  Bitter Pill 05/05/06
  85.   Wolman, the mask is finally dropped 22:02  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 05/05/06
  86.   This Is Far-Left Trash 22:07  |  Jeff Northridge 05/05/06
  87.   Lies, extended list... 22:13  |  Tom 05/05/06
  88.   Lie/Myth #15 22:19  |  Tom 05/05/06
  89.   Israel had sone everything 22:20  |  Irene 05/05/06
  90.   Choni and Danite: Give up your... 22:32  |  Tom 05/05/06
  91.   Dear John 22:36  |  FOX 05/05/06
  92.   Me # 54 Israel Can`t Shut Off Water 22:37  |  Jeff Northridge 05/05/06
  93.   Bouhadana,I stand in awe of your words (really) 23:08  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  94.   True Brit: Only condescending Mount Snowdon 23:11  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  95.   Cipora: Oh what odd defences you have... 23:22  |  Ronnie Wolman 05/05/06
  96.   #76 no comparison, huh? 23:38  |  hollingsworth 05/05/06
  97.   No Religious Group Today Compares to Carnage by Radical Islam 23:42  |  Jane 05/05/06
  98.   Wollman, read me 23:49  |  Dror 05/05/06
  99.   # 36 - What`s wrong with Iraqi Jews? 00:05  |  Chanah 06/05/06
  100.   CUT OFF ELECTRICITY BEFORE THE WORLD CUP 00:06  |  FOX 06/05/06
  101.   Something about lies 00:07  |  TonyL 06/05/06
  102.   Israeli myth #16: "Israel is the only... 00:24  |  Tom 06/05/06
  103.   jeff northridge 76 00:24  |  potobac 06/05/06
  104.   Bradley`s not the enemy. Nor is Ronnie. 00:29  |  Dave 06/05/06
  105.   Tom 00:33  |  Danite 06/05/06
  106.   Dror: Forget getting mad at Ashkenazis!!!!! 00:35  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  107.   Potobec very interesting!! 00:36  |  Danite 06/05/06
  108.   Ronnie 00:36  |  Dror 06/05/06
  109.   Fox before we eat that traiffe... 00:36  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  110.   The Lie of this essay 00:42  |  Saul 06/05/06
  111.   Dave: Forget defending me,we have to beat West Ham on Sunday!!!! 00:43  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  112.   If the shoe were on the other foot 00:44  |  peter 06/05/06
  113.   Tom of Jerusalem 00:45  |  Larry 06/05/06
  114.   Dror.Ok I LOVE the sephardim,I will go out tonite and eat Hummous 00:48  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  115.   Dror 00:48  |  Danite 06/05/06
  116.   Danite: Touche` 00:53  |  Tom 06/05/06
  117.   Burston is very correct 00:55  |  Danite 06/05/06
  118.   Jewish World War; more oil to the fire 00:57  |  Adolph 06/05/06
  119.   No worries, Ronnie, I`m more Chelsea though 01:04  |  Dave 06/05/06
  120.   Asaf, Dror and refugees and those damned Leftists 01:06  |  peter 06/05/06
  121.   But of course 01:14  |  Michael N 06/05/06
  122.   111 Ronnie, a suggestion? 01:20  |  True Brit 06/05/06
  123.   Steve in San Fran 01:28  |  Dror 06/05/06
  124.   #115 Danite 01:29  |  shai 06/05/06
  125.   Ben Gurion and a whole new ball game 01:30  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  126.   Asaf and Dror on Ronnie Off the Wall Man 01:30  |  Gabe1 06/05/06
  127.   Ben Gurion 01:30  |  Dror 06/05/06
  128.   Dave #104 01:38  |  Gabe 06/05/06
  129.   Dave and True Brit: Two Brits 01:38  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  130.   Dave and True Brit: Two Brits 01:47  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  131.   A fine analogy Danite 01:54  |  Mark Lincoln 06/05/06
  132.   THIS IS THE TRUTH 02:02  |  Wake up, people 06/05/06
  133.   Bravo Mr. Burston 02:05  |  Peter Wilson 06/05/06
  134.   #50 good points 02:38  |  OMar 06/05/06
  135.   #61 02:39  |  Omar 06/05/06
  136.   #112, Peter, if the shoe were on the other foot 02:40  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 06/05/06
  137.   Ali G 02:46  |  True Brit 06/05/06
  138.   Bradley Burston #10. The lie of We Were Here First 02:47  |  Bruce 06/05/06
  139.   "It smells..."! 02:53  |  Pastor Phil 06/05/06
  140.   Bradley Burston #9. The lie of the State They Don`t Deserve 02:55  |  Bruce 06/05/06
  141.   Ronnie, Better still! 02:58  |  True Brit 06/05/06
  142.   Bradley Burston #3. The lie of revenge 03:06  |  Bruce 06/05/06
  143.   Say no to rigid separation 03:07  |  Sweat Candy 06/05/06
  144.   Gabe1 : Really Steve Martin in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels???? 03:12  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  145.   lie! 03:12  |  Jeff 06/05/06
  146.   It`s always about equivalence 03:14  |  peter 06/05/06
  147.   Bradley Burston #2. The lie of victim monopoly 03:16  |  Bruce 06/05/06
  148.   True Brit: Sacha Baron Cohen,ennit? 03:16  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  149.   Peter: What is it about 90% possession is law that you dont.. 03:27  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  150.   Refresh my memory, Ronnie 03:34  |  True Brit 06/05/06
  151.   True Brit: Nostalgia at Highbury 03:42  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  152.   True Brit: Are you a member of the National Front? 03:44  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  153.   #101, TonyL, something about lies 03:48  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 06/05/06
  154.   Peter Wilson #133 03:57  |  TonyL 06/05/06
  155.   True Brit: Being There,no not the Peter Sellers film 04:04  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  156.   True Brit: They werent Celts,they were Jewish 04:06  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  157.   NO PEACE : NO VICTORY : UNTIL THE JEWISH MESSIAH IS REIGNING ?? 04:39  |  Bill 06/05/06
  158.   Ibrahim-#29 Hamas and Israeli Govt need each other 05:07  |  Daniel Leopold 06/05/06
  159.   Ronnie Wolman # 130 Scotland the Brave! 05:24  |  Jeff Northridge 06/05/06
  160.   danite 107 05:35  |  potobac 06/05/06
  161.   Re;Ibrahim#29 06:16  |  e.m 06/05/06
  162.   peter # 146 Well Said! 06:34  |  Jeff Northridge 06/05/06
  163.   This is a great thread! 08:20  |  Searcher 06/05/06
  164.   ronnie gets it wrong again so does bradley 08:27  |  paul harris 06/05/06
  165.   tom and the sugar plum fairies 08:34  |  paul harris 06/05/06
  166.   Potobac 08:57  |  Potobac the senile 06/05/06
  167.   False equivalencies 09:12  |  JJ Doyle 06/05/06
  168.   Her today gone tomorrow-but not Eternally Living Woolman 09:55  |  Absolute Sweden 06/05/06
  169.   potobac # 160 What Crimes Are You Talking About? 10:13  |  Jeff Northridge 06/05/06
  170.   #139 Pastor Phil: Don`t you get it? 10:43  |  Tom 06/05/06
  171.   potobac-#160 10:50  |  Daniel Leopold 06/05/06
  172.   Not bad, but... 11:19  |  Colin Wright 06/05/06
  173.   potobac the senile 166 11:32  |  the same old potobc 06/05/06
  174.   tom have you been there since 1967????? 11:35  |  paul harris 06/05/06
  175.   jeff northridge 169 11:52  |  potobac 06/05/06
  176.   potobac, a response 11:53  |  Danny - Israeli one 06/05/06
  177.   Gabe, what`s all this self-hating Jew stuff? 11:54  |  Dave 06/05/06
  178.   Tom and democracy 11:59  |  Danny - Israeli one 06/05/06
  179.   david leopold 171 12:02  |  potobac 06/05/06
  180.   #165 Paul: Sugar plum fairies... 12:17  |  Tom 06/05/06
  181.   #180, Tom do you actually live there 12:54  |  Danny - Israeli one 06/05/06
  182.   Tom and democracy AGAIN 12:59  |  Danny - Israeli one 06/05/06
  183.   Jeff Northridge: Kilt or be Kilt 13:01  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  184.   Absolut-ly! 13:04  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  185.   Tom,cut your twaddle,go back to Belæfast to fight for your Cathol 13:07  |  Absolute Sweden 06/05/06
  186.   Dave, dont try to reason with the bobble head 13:08  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  187.   Potobec once again.. 14:15  |  Danite 06/05/06
  188.   Jeff Northridge 14:20  |  Danite 06/05/06
  189.   One state for two peoples 14:24  |  Ben Alofs 06/05/06
  190.   Potobec #2 14:26  |  Danite 06/05/06
  191.   IF Israel wanted" victory".They could have it Arab style long ago 15:15  |  PETER SM 06/05/06
  192.   tom and the historical facts miles apart 15:32  |  paul harris 06/05/06
  193.   Thank you, Bradley 15:55  |  klas 06/05/06
  194.   Potobac 16:02  |  Potobac the senile 06/05/06
  195.   Ibrahim 29 16:08  |  Allon 06/05/06
  196.   POTOBAC.How about some more clever quotes in Latin? 16:08  |  PETER SM 06/05/06
  197.   Potobac 16:19  |  Tom C 06/05/06
  198.   Potobac 16:31  |  Potobac the senile 06/05/06
  199.   potobac-#179 16:49  |  Daniel Leopold 06/05/06
  200.   Potobac 16:51  |  TT 06/05/06
  201.   Pastor Phil 16:58  |  hollingsworth 06/05/06
  202.   There is Victory, but no Peace 17:11  |  Bloomfield 06/05/06
  203.   You know what 17:12  |  Dror 06/05/06
  204.   The lie and the reality. 17:24  |  Vital 06/05/06
  205.   TOM ( ISM?) Your side has declared war on Israel`s civillians. 17:32  |  PETER SM 06/05/06
  206.   Dror,If Judaism really was what you represented I would do that 17:40  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  207.   Dror and Ronnie gone la-la 18:06  |  peter 06/05/06
  208.   Dror,The Israeli government.... 18:14  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  209.   One state for two peoples? 18:17  |  peter 06/05/06
  210.   The bottom line Ronnie 18:18  |  Dror 06/05/06
  211.   Dror: Three Bobble Head Monkeys 18:18  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  212.   The Truth 18:24  |  Harry T. 06/05/06
  213.   # 99 "Iraqi Jews " 18:39  |  Paul 06/05/06
  214.   Dave - the legend of the self hating Jew 18:40  |  Mark Lincoln 06/05/06
  215.   6 million ronnie 18:44  |  Dror 06/05/06
  216.   6 Million? Wjat is the Meaning of Judaism,not the numbers? 19:00  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  217.   Mark Lincoln:Gabe is not a self hating jew... 19:13  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  218.   Plain speaking 19:22  |  peter 06/05/06
  219.   Ronnie 19:23  |  Dror 06/05/06
  220.   Bouhaha.. to W..Loman 19:24  |  Bouhadana 06/05/06
  221.   danite 190 19:47  |  potobac 06/05/06
  222.   Bouhadana 19:47  |  Dror 06/05/06
  223.   Dror: `we` is not `we` 19:54  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  224.   potobac the senile 19:56  |  the same old potobac 06/05/06
  225.   `Bouhaha` sorry Bouhadana did I say that? 19:59  |  Willy Loman Wolman 06/05/06
  226.   Danite if your still there 19:59  |  Dror 06/05/06
  227.   peter sm 196 19:59  |  potobac 06/05/06
  228.   tom c 197 20:05  |  potobac 06/05/06
  229.   potobac the senile 198 20:15  |  the same old potobac 06/05/06
  230.   Israel has no right to keep killing Pals daily just like that 20:17  |  Gaza Boy 06/05/06
  231.   daniel Leopold 199 20:20  |  potobac 06/05/06
  232.   tt 200 20:23  |  potobac 06/05/06
  233.   Dave : You`ve explained it to you yourself 20:25  |  Absolute Sweden 06/05/06
  234.   The 11th lie 20:29  |  Francois 06/05/06
  235.   Dror, Ronnie is a Tottenham fan 20:35  |  Gaza Boy 06/05/06
  236.   potobac 20:39  |  Dror 06/05/06
  237.   come on Dror, you live in expensive Haifa city 20:39  |  Gaza Boy 06/05/06
  238.   Dear Mr.Bradley. "The lie of We Were Here First" I SAY: 21:15  |  S 06/05/06
  239.   Gaza boy 21:18  |  Dror 06/05/06
  240.   # 3 David Howard.re:Power of lies....... 21:20  |  S 06/05/06
  241.   # 7 sh. Clearly we have a lot in common.SORRY I DON`T THINK SO... 21:25  |  S 06/05/06
  242.   # 24 Ronnie Wolman.re:Dror:Expansion........ 21:45  |  S 06/05/06
  243.   potobac # 224 Grievances & Justice 21:47  |  Jeff Northridge 06/05/06
  244.   potobac 21:51  |  Gina 06/05/06
  245.   # 31 Danite.re:Asaf. PARDON ME,AND IF I AM OUT OF LINE PLEASE ... 21:52  |  S 06/05/06
  246.   Gaza Boy; The Doner may be better at Arsenal isnt it... 21:55  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  247.   dror 236 21:59  |  potobac 06/05/06
  248.   Paul from Oslo 22:02  |  Mark Lincoln 06/05/06
  249.   Mark Lincoln:Gabe is not a self hating jew... 22:03  |  Mark Lincoln 06/05/06
  250.   Dave #177 22:04  |  Gabe1 06/05/06
  251.   Israel has no right to keep killing Pals daily just like that 22:07  |  Mark Lincoln 06/05/06
  252.   Off the Wool Man To Dror #206 22:11  |  Gabe1 06/05/06
  253.   Mark IV Lincoln #214 22:15  |  Gabe1 06/05/06
  254.   Lies 22:23  |  dov epstein 06/05/06
  255.   Gaza Boy # 230 Divided Where? 22:26  |  Jeff Northridge 06/05/06
  256.   S: Watching his P`s and Q`s 22:39  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  257.   Dror what do you think of Gabe 1`s post? 22:47  |  Ronnie Wolman 06/05/06
  258.   Gaza Boy 22:48  |  Gina 06/05/06
  259.   TonyL # 154 22:55  |  Peter Wilson 06/05/06
  260.   what is not said openly 23:05  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 06/05/06
  261.   It` didn`t make the NY Times - or Haaretz 23:12  |  Mark Lincoln 06/05/06
  262.   Ronnie 23:13  |  Dror 06/05/06
  263.   Why not settle it with a football game then? 23:14  |  Karam 06/05/06
  264.   Bradley , I find myself saying Wow! 23:17  |  Dutch 06/05/06
  265.   Shaul Mofaz and Moshe Yaalon are the 2 biggest liars of all 23:17  |  Mustapha K 06/05/06
  266.   potobac 23:20  |  Dror 06/05/06
  267.   # 262 Dror. re:Ronnie/Gabe......... 23:24  |  S 06/05/06
  268.   S #245 23:25  |  Gabe1 06/05/06
  269.   #256, when will you ever stop 23:25  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 06/05/06
  270.   Ronnie Woolman #217 23:29  |  Gabe1 06/05/06
  271.   Ben Gurion is an Arab Impostor 23:38  |  Dror 06/05/06
  272.   Peter Wilson #259 23:41  |  Gabe1 06/05/06
  273.   mark Lincoln well said #131 23:43  |  Danite 06/05/06
  274.   3264, Doris, I doubt B. Burston wants to hear anythin from you 23:45  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 06/05/06
  275.   jeff northridge 243 23:48  |  potobac 06/05/06
  276.   Potobec 23:51  |  Danite 06/05/06
  277.   potobac 23:53  |  Dror 06/05/06
  278.   gina 244 23:54  |  potobac 06/05/06
  279.   Lies 23:58  |  gabriel 06/05/06
  280.   S 23:58  |  Danite 06/05/06
  281.   dror 266 00:11  |  potobac 07/05/06
  282.   POTOBAC.You never even mention the other side may be at fault 00:12  |  PETER SM 07/05/06
  283.   Karam-That`s the Best Idea I`ve Heard in A Long Time! 00:17  |  Jane 07/05/06
  284.   Wolman 00:18  |  Bouhadana 07/05/06
  285.   #272, Gabe1 00:21  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 07/05/06
  286.   danite 276 00:24  |  potobac 07/05/06
  287.   potobac 00:27  |  Gina 07/05/06
  288.   Hello Danite 00:28  |  Mark of Lewiston 07/05/06
  289.   Gabe1 you looking for trouble again? 00:32  |  Danite 07/05/06
  290.   265 mustapha are you serious 00:33  |  paul harris 07/05/06
  291.   dror 277 00:35  |  potobac 07/05/06
  292.   #286, potobac, well actually.... 00:38  |  Danny - Israeli one 07/05/06
  293.   Herrenvolk? poto 00:39  |  Dror 07/05/06
  294.   Potobec whats up with the Gentile thing 00:45  |  Danite 07/05/06
  295.   117 Danite - Write Songs! 00:47  |  Mark of Lewiston 07/05/06
  296.   potobec 00:53  |  Dror 07/05/06
  297.   # 280 Danite.re:My query.Please inform me.I am so ignorant.Honest 01:06  |  S 07/05/06
  298.   potobac and rights 01:09  |  peter 07/05/06
  299.   Cipora #285 01:18  |  Gabe1 07/05/06
  300.   Danite #289 01:21  |  Gabe1 07/05/06
  301.   #157, Three % Margin Error! 01:30  |  djackson 07/05/06
  302.   potobac # 275 It`s Complicated 01:32  |  Jeff Northridge 07/05/06
  303.   Gina 01:35  |  Gaza Boy 07/05/06
  304.   Dror 01:41  |  Gaza Boy 07/05/06
  305.   # 272 Gabe1. Read Copora`s mail Gabe.I AM WITH YOU MOST OF TIME.. 01:51  |  S 07/05/06
  306.   I get it and its quite amazing 01:52  |  Ronnie Wolman 07/05/06
  307.   Jeff Northridge what do you mean where? 01:55  |  Gaza Boy 07/05/06
  308.   peter sm 282 01:58  |  potobac 07/05/06
  309.   Ronnie Wolman I`m a Chelsea fan 02:02  |  Gaza Boy 07/05/06
  310.   #216 revisionist history 02:09  |  hollingsworth 07/05/06
  311.   gina 287 02:21  |  potobac 07/05/06
  312.   danny 292 02:27  |  potobac 07/05/06
  313.   Gaza Boy 02:30  |  Gina 07/05/06
  314.   dror 293 02:32  |  potobac 07/05/06
  315.   Mark Lincoln you think you know more? 02:34  |  Gaza Boy 07/05/06
  316.   S Hello "no problem" 02:36  |  Danite 07/05/06
  317.   #297, S 1 02:38  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 07/05/06
  318.   Gabe1 02:40  |  Danite 07/05/06
  319.   danite 294 02:43  |  potobac 07/05/06
  320.   potobac # 286 Yes, There Were Some Jews Expelled 02:46  |  Jeff Northridge 07/05/06
  321.   dror 296 02:47  |  potobac 07/05/06
  322.   #297, S 2 02:48  |  Cipora Julianna Kohn 07/05/06
  323.   Hello Mark Of Lewiston 02:49  |  Danite 07/05/06
  324.   peter 298 02:49  |  potobac 07/05/06
  325.   potobac 02:52  |  Gina 07/05/06
  326.   jeff northridge 302 02:56  |  potobac 07/05/06
  327.   Gabe1 carpet-bombing? 03:04  |  peter 07/05/06
  328.   # 317 Cipora Julianna Kohn. Thank you for the esponse.An addendum 03:17  |  S 07/05/06
  329.   #312, second go at a response 03:29  |  Danny - Israeli one 07/05/06
  330.   #326, what about the "racist" UK 03:33  |  Danny - Israeli one 07/05/06
  331.   Potobec 03:42  |  Danite 07/05/06
  332.   Potobec#2 03:45  |  Danite 07/05/06
  333.   323 Danite 03:54  |  Mark of Lewiston 07/05/06
  334.   Danite 03:57  |  Gina 07/05/06
  335.   S #305-1 03:58  |  Gabe1 07/05/06
  336.   s-#305-2 04:02  |  Gabe1 07/05/06
  337.   potobac-Israel will not quit the Middle East 04:09  |  Daniel Leopold 07/05/06
  338.   Gaza Boy # 307 That`s Too Vague 04:09  |  Jeff Northridge 07/05/06
  339.   Peter of Montreal #327 04:17  |  Gabe1 07/05/06
  340.   potobac-Jews will support Israel 04:18  |  Daniel Leopold 07/05/06
  341.   Open your eyesl, Mr. Burston 04:33  |  Marcos Perez 07/05/06
  342.   Gabe1 my position holds 05:11  |  peter 07/05/06
  343.   #340 Daniel Leopold, if I may add one word 05:14  |  peter 07/05/06
  344.   jeff northridge 320 05:27  |  potobac 07/05/06
  345.   gina 325 05:34  |  potobac 07/05/06
  346.   danite 331 05:37  |  potobac 07/05/06
  347.   POTOBAC#308.Avoid answering the issue at all costs. 05:40  |  PETER SM 07/05/06
  348.   danite 332 05:43  |