Ahmed Tibi MK was a guest of Haaretz Q&A on Thursday, September 2. Many thanks to the thousands of readers who participated in this event.
A trained physician, Tibi first entered the Knesset in 1999, having served as a political advisor to Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat for several years, even representing the Palestinians at the 1998 Wye River negotiations.
Tibi, who supports the right of return for Palestinian refugees, has called the West Bank fence "immoral," compared it to the Berlin Wall and urged the international community to oppose its completion.
Ahead of the 2003 elections, a number of right-wing politicians, including the heads of the National Union and National Religious Party, sought unsuccessfully to have Tibi banned from running for the Knesset.
Ariel Sharon says he is willing to withdraw from Gaza Strip settlements. At the same time, he says he is willing to deepen the Israeli presence in the West Bank by strengthening settlement blocs in Ma'aleh Adumim, Gush Etzion, around Jerusalem, Ariel, Hebron, etc. He described his proposal as the worst for the Palestinians.
Nevertheless, as a man who is willing, and who is demanding each day the withdrawal of Israeli troops, I cannot oppose the evacuation of even one settlement. Settlements should be evacuated, but I would like to have the evacuation of Gaza as the first step toward the evacuation of all settlements in the West Bank as well, as part of the road map, which I have many reservation about, to arrive to the vision of a two-state solution - Israel and an independent, sovereign Palestine. Ariel Sharon mentioned a "Palestinian state" more than once. He never said "independent, sovereign Palestinian state." He is talking about a state on 50% of the area, which is a dwarf, non-sovereign state. No Palestinian leader can or will accept this proposal. Yasser Arafat had rejected and will continue to reject it. But Arafat will agree to a two-state solution based on withdrawal to the June 4, 1967 border, with total Palestinian sovereignty in East Jerusalem.
I do believe that individuals and communities can generate a new atmosphere and real and genuine attempt to change the situation. Peace is a need for Palestinians and Israelis. We all should believe that freedom and justice should be for all and children should go to school and come back to their families safely. We had very tough years in the past, we are living in a tough present but we can and we should do our utmost in order to make the future better. It can take much time, but I am very much optimistic that we all will win the right to be human, safe and free, living in peace.
As I said, Israel is defined as a Jewish and democratic state, there ius a real contradiction between the two values, Israel is not a total democracy, but I can say Israel is an ethnocracy. I am saying yes Israel is a Jewish and democratic state, but my explanation for this is: that Israel is "democratic towards Jews and Jewish towards Arabs." It is important to have right of elections as we have here in Israel, but is it enough for defining democracy. Democracy is not only the right of the majority to rule and to dictate, it is mainly the right of the minority to be different but equal. I do not find myself embarrassed by saying that there are dictatorships in the Arab world and lack of real democracy. The first item in our political platform of my party: Arab Movement for Change, is talking about the need for democracy, equality and civil rights in all Arab communities in the Middle East. I do believe that the slow developing process of Arab countries is mainly the fault of these regimes using their non-democratic authorities in order to remain in power. Democracy is also changing regimes periodically, giving equal rights for men and women.
The Arab world is losing day by day their real benefit that more than 50 percent of the community (women) can and should deliver with its important productivity in all fields of life, because of discrimination against women. As a progressive intellectual I am struggling continuously for these values. By being asked to choose between ruling dictators and courageous Arab intellectuals, all Arabs in the world, especially those who are paying the price for being critical and courageous, I choose the latter. But Israel is claiming and declaring day by day that it belongs to the Western democracies, making France, England and the U.S.A. the control group of Israel and in this comparison I think Israel cannot pass the exam.
Despair, anger and sometimes hatred is a normal reaction to four decades of occupation and oppression. I cannot imagine people will turn from black to white or from hatred to love, but a peaceful solution based on putting an end to the occupation, and freedom enabling people to breathe and live and move freely will create a gradual process of an attempt to live side by side peacefully with a tangible effort of creating bilateral confidence that was destroyed over the years.
There is no symmetry between occupiers and those who are living under occupation, but the process can start only when Palestinian children will at no time and in no case see any occupation soldiers all over the occupied territories.
The Labor party is the main party of the opposition. Labor was supposed to lead the opposition against Sharon's government. Instead of being opponents, they constantly proposed themselves as partners, crawling to the government, and making the opposition weaker.
I feel that we Arab MKs and parties are the real and most outspoken opposition to the government, and the behavior of the Labor party explains why we have never, during the last two years, succeeded in any motion of no confidence against the government.
The Labor party should propose itself to the Israeli public as a real alternative, not as a crawling partner. I am happy that there are more and more voices in the Labor party against a unity government between Likud and Labor.
I was appointed to be a political advisor to Chairman Yasser Arafat in 1993. I resigned in 1999, when I decided to be elected to the Knesset. My work with Chairman Arafat was extremely interesting and important for me. I enjoyed working with the President. Still, we have a close relationship and I just came here [to Tel Aviv] after meeting him in Ramallah.
The wall is separating in many areas between Palestinians and their families, between children and their schools, between sick people and their clinics, like in Abu Dis and A-Ram and north Jerusalem, preventing Palestinian farmers from getting to their lands, like in Qalqilyah and Burdes and many other places. Conceptually, I am against walls, as a civilized person. Walls in modern history were dismantled, for example, the Berlin Wall. Israel had tried everything, tried rifles, bullets, tanks, closure, confiscation of lands, uprooting trees, arrest, assassinations, aircraft, wall, but Israel did not try even to use the only and optimal solution for the present situation, which is to put an end to the occupation. Nevertheless, and Israeli proposal in the last years was aimed mainly at to rearrange the occupation and not putting an end to it. Security is important for all, peace is important for all - it's a need. There will be no security for only one side, and there will be no peace and stability for only one side. When there will be security in Nablus and Rafah, definitely there will be security in Be'er Sheva and Tel Aviv. Palestinians and Israelis deserve peace, stability, security and prosperity, which cannot go together with occupation and apartheid wall.
Throughout history, whenever there is an occupation, there is resistance in occupied territories, but I would like to say categorically that I reject the targeting of civilians, both Israelis and Palestinians - both morally and politically.
Besides that, I do believe that Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and the right-wing used suicide bombings inside Israel to gain political points, and used them as excuses for not moving forward in the negotiating process, because really I do believe that the Likud and Mr. Sharon himself are not a real partner for real peace. He declared Yasser Arafat as a non-partner because Arafat said no to the Israeli conditions. Resistance is a way of pushing the national cause forward.
I am sure that explosions against civilians in restaurants or buses, not only do not advance the national cause, but sometimes move it backwards. I can say so because I accuse the occupation in killing 578 Palestinian children from the beginning of this intifada, killing and injuring thousands of people, 75% of whom were unarmed civilians. Israeli authorities usually say that they kill Palestinian children by mistake. I can understand that a mistake can be made once or twice, or ten times, but 578 mistakes?!
Israel by practice and reality is composed of two nationalities, the Jewish nationality of the majority and the Arab nationality of the minority (80 percent and 20 percent). Your proposal of complete exchange of populations is aimed at creating a pure Jewish state without Arabs and in your questions you are making an enormous by the comparison of the indigenous Arab citizens of Israel with the Jewish settlers who invaded the West Bank and Gaza Strip as occupiers. Morally and politically I reject this comparison.
To tell the truth, Israelis are talking about the "salt of the land," and I am asking all of you ? Who is the salt of the land, Avigdor Lieberman who came from the former Soviet Union invading Palestinian territories in the West Bank, living in a settlement, knows nothing about the real nature of this homeland and this country, or Ahmed Tibi, who was born in Taibeh, married to a woman from Tul Karm, born to a father from Jaffa and mother from Ramle, and living now in Jerusalem? I am the salt of the land, and he is a total invader and occupied territory.
In the personality of every Arab in Israel, there are two cardinal components. One is national, which is Arab-Palestinian. The second is civic, which is Israeli citizenship. We are struggling in order to develop and strengthen both - both our national identity and our citizenship, and trying to add real content to them. I do relate seriously to my citizenship.
My struggle for the principle of a two-state solution is not aimed at finding a solution for the one million Arab Palestinian citizens inside Israel, but to implement the right of self-determination for the Palestinians in the occupied territories. Arabs in Israel are not chess pieces that can be removed by a decision by the majority in order to create a pure, Jewish Israel. Anyone who is willing to move is free to do so. We, Arabs here, were here before the creation of Israel. Israel came to us, and it should deal with us in a respectable and equal way. We are not willing to move from our home and land.
I was born in Taibeh. Taibeh is my homeland. Nazareth is my homeland. I was not brought to Israel from the Soviet Union or from Argentina. Any demand that the Arab minority leave just because there is a neighboring Palestinian state is totally rejected and lacks the understanding of the value of real citizenship.
I think that the arrest of my friend Sheikh Raed Salah is a stupid and oppressive step taken by the Israeli authorities, mainly to intimidate the Arab leadership especially the Islamic Movement. I think also because of the positive activity of Sheikh Raed and the Al-Aqsa mosque. I am visiting monthly in the jail, being with him also in court and I will continue to support the release of Sheikh Raed and Dr. Suleiman Egbariya and their fellows.
I would like to mention that my immunity was lifted two years ago when I was accused of getting in the Palestinian areas (Area A) in the West Bank and accused of being a "Palestinian patriot" and because of getting into the Jenin camp when the Israeli troops invaded the camp. I was even barred by the central election committee from taking part in the last elections in the same accusations that I was proud to admit that I am indeed a Palestinian patriot and a citizen who is struggling for civil rights for my people inside Israel and that I got indeed into the Jenin camp. I was allowed to participate in the elections only by appealing to the High Court.
In the last year, the Knesset passed a law called The Law of Citizenship, which practically makes it impossible for Palestinians from inside the Green Line (citizens of the state of Israel) to marry Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Under the security tension of the intifada, and the fears of Israeli society, the government of Israel, pushed by the Israeli security services (Shin Bet), passed one of the most racist laws in the modern history, barring one million Israeli citizens from marrying their beloved partners. When this law was brought to the government, Minister of Interior at the time Eli Yishai said it was a law was passed in order to prevent the right of return. Gideon Ezra, also a minister, said the same.
But in the Knesset, they said it was for security reasons, citing two or three examples in which people involved in attacks against Israelis used their blue Israeli identity cards. Imagine that in France, Argentina, or in the United States, the local government issued an order or law preventing Jews from marrying American citizens because of security reasons or because they claim that Jews are involved in illegal activity inside the country. It will raise a real storm and people would say it was racist and anti-Semitic. In our case, it is racist and anti-Palestinian.
Another example is the so-called "state land." More than 96% of the land in Israel is state land or belongs to the Israel Lands Authority, or the Jewish Agency, and the Arabs, who comprise 20% of the population, own only 3% of the land in Israel. They are not allowed to buy lands from the ILA, because only Jews can do so. Under the banner of salvating the land ("ge'ulat ha-karka").
The third example is the so-called "developing budgets," directed by the government to the local councils. Arab local councils are getting only 10% of developing budgets, compared to Jewish local councils, as to say that maybe Arabs do not need to develop.
Israel is defined in its basic law as a Jewish democratic state, Jewish before democratic. As a result, directly from this definition, there can be no equality between Jews and non-Jews inside the State of Israel, mainly between Jews and Arabs. Nevertheless, we as a leadership are trying to bridge and narrow the gap between the Jewish majority and Arab minority in Israel. Most of the decision-makers in Israel do acknowledge and say that Jews should be preferred always "because it's the state of the Jews." It is an anti-civic position that creates and deepens inequality and discrimination. That's why I do believe that there is a pure contradiction between the value of democracy and the value of ethnicity. Democracy is total equality between citizens and ethnicity is creating a superior group and an inferior one. In any case, I don't accept being inferior to anybody and to any group, especially that I am representing the indigenous people who were living here before the construction of Israel.
