Subscribe to Print Edition | Mon., November 23, 2009 Kislev 6, 5770 | | Israel Time: 01:01 (EST+7)
Haaretz israel news English
web haaretz.com
Jewish World Haaretz Toolbar
Diplomacy
Defense Opinion National
Print Edition
Car Rental  
Focus U.S.A. Strenger than Fiction Business Travel Magazine Week's End Anglo File Books  
with Natan Sharansky

Minister of Jerusalem and Diaspora Affairs Natan (Anatoly) Sharansky answered readers' questions on Thursday, June 24. Many thanks to the thousands of people who participated in this live event.

Sharansky was born in 1948 and studied mathematics in Moscow. He became a prominent leader of the struggle for Soviet Jewry and was imprisoned for nine years. He was released and allowed to immigrate to Israel in 1986.

Sharansky has been a member of Knesset since 1996 and has served in a number of ministerial roles. In the recent cabinet vote, Sharansky voted against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan.


Can you accurately put into words your feelings upon setting foot into Israel for the first time?
Adam Shprintzen
New York, U.S.A.
Natan Sharansky:
In the morning I was in a KGB prison and in the evening I was at the Western Wall with my wife who I hadn't seen for 12 years, and with our numerous friends. It was like emerging from darkness into light, from the world of hatred into a sea of love, from hell to paradise. I found myself in the heavens, from there I could only descend. But after 18 years of descending, I still enjoy every day and every minute of living in our beautiful, charming country.
Why do you not support mass conversions for Russian immigrants, like those for Ethiopian Jews? Couldn't this help sort out problems with Jewish lineage?
Samuel
New York , U.S.A.
Natan Sharansky:
Russian immigrants have the same opportunities for conversion as do the Ethiopians. But their attitudes, their expectations and their reactions on this matter are very different. I do support and am actively involved in the efforts to make the process of conversion much more user-friendly. My last discussion with the prime minister on this issue was only last night (Wednesday).
What, if anything, is the current government going to do about the ever-increasing gap between rich and poor in Israel? Surely you agree that it does not bode well for social stability when an ever increasing percentage of the population is left out of the economic recovery that some segments of the society have felt?
Jack Levy
Ra'anana, Israel
Natan Sharansky:
I think we have been implementing very important reforms which are aimed at making our economy more competitive and more dynamic. But I agree that the burden for the poor in our society is too great and I am one of those ministers who insist that the emphasis in the next budget will be on taking care of senior citizens, single families, families with many children, and new immigrants. We need capitalism with a Jewish soul.
How does Israel intend to improve its hasbara (public relations) - by closing consulates as was done in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo, two of the most important cities in Latin America?
Zevi Ghivelder
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Natan Sharansky:
Ideally, you are right. Israel should be present wherever there is a considerable Jewish community. But with the need for drastic budget cuts, as a result of the high cost of security, and the economic crisis of the last three years, every ministry has to make painful choices.

You should not envy the foreign minister who has to choose between Marseilles, Montreal, Sao Paulo or Minsk. Hopefully these measures are temporary, but in the meantime let us limit the damage by more active involvement of the local Jewish community in hasbara.
As a student in a very liberal school, I am often confronted with anti-Israel rhetoric that I find difficult to combat. My strategy often involves pointing out that of all the nations in the world only Israel is excluded from joining the UN Security Council or becoming a member of the Red Cross/Red Crescent. My tactic is simply to point out that Israel, in general, is being singled out rather than actually confronting the accusations of immorality. How would you propose to deal specifically with the standard academic's list of accusations (racism, occupation, state-sponsored terrorism, military brutality, lack of equality, etc)?
Noah
New York, U.S.A.
Natan Sharansky:
Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, the only country in the world where an Arab population has representation in the parliament and which can freely criticize the government's policies. It is also the only country in the region where there are equal rights for all types of minorities.

It's surprising how the liberal atmoshere of American universities where the same people for whom the rights of gays are sacred are ready to support the regime where the only way for gays to survive is to ask for political asylum in Israel. How can the people who support the rights of women, also support the societies where honor killings have become a normal part of daily life. How can they draw a moral equivalence between the terrorists who are targetting civilians on buses and in discos, and the state which is targetting terrorists. If you see a demonstration for the freedom of Palestinians, join it and say that real freedom for Palestinians first means freedom from corrupt dictatorship and the right to live in a free society of their own.
Do you think that building an 8-meter high concrete wall through prime Palestinian farmland and beating old farmers who protest against this is a further step towards peace in the region?
Simon Westwood
London, U.K.
Natan Sharansky:
The Berlin Wall was built to keep millions of people isolated from freedom. The security fence in Israel is being built in order to prevent terrorists from killing hundreds and thousands of Israelis - Jews and Arabs - in buses and cafes. The 8-meter high concrete wall you are referring to is only a very small part of the fence, and is in those areas that are most densely populated. The section of the wall you may be referring to, near Jerusalem, is in a place where 17 suicide bombers crossed into Jerusalem with a ticking bomb on their bodies. This wall prevents them from doing this now.

It is very uncomfortable today to be in airports in America where you are subjected to all types of time-consuming measures, including removing your shoes, belts and sometimes being bodily searched, but I accept this discomfort, as you do, knowing this guarantees the security of all of us. The same is true about the fence. The best way for Palestinians to make sure there is no fence is to start cooperating with us in fighting terror.
Why didn't you involve yourself in the Noam Federman case, given the similarity of his case and your own struggle against an oppressive regime?
Meir
Brooklyn, U.S.A.
Natan Sharansky:
It's unfortunate that we permit ourselves so easily to make comparisons between a Soviet dictatorship and democratic Israel, and then we complain about moral equivalents used by our enemies. As to the conditions in which Noam Federman was kept in jail, I had a number of conversations with the top Israeli officials on this issue and I hope this was helpful.
The Gaza disengagement plan appears to be becoming less "unilateral" by the minute, as Israel gives up land to the Palestinian Authority which is steeped in terrorism and an ongoing desire to destroy the State of Israel. Are we not establishing a very dangerous precedent that the road to "peace" involve the population transfer of Jewish citizens from their homeland with Israel receiving nothing in return. Has Prime Minister's Sharon's government not learnt the lessons of the mistakes made at Munich and Oslo, or does he no longer perceive himself as leader of a Likud government?
Andrew Tunick
Leeds, U.K.
Natan Sharansky:
I think it is a dangerous double standard when it is expected that every piece of territory that will be under the control of the Palestinian Authority will be free of Jews, while it goes without saying that Arabs are an integral part of all the territories which are controlled by Israel. This means that from the beginning we are speaking about the coexistence of very different types of societies - one a democratic Israel and the other a dictatorship based on racial cleansing. I don't believe in this type of peace and this was one of my main objections to the disengagement plan.
Why do you, born in Russia, believe that you have more of a right to live in the land that was once Palestine and is now Israel than a Palestinian Arab who was born there?
Jeff Blankfort
San Francisco, U.S.A.
Natan Sharansky:
Jews came here 3,000 years ago and this is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews are the only people in history who kept their loyalty to their identity and their land throughout the 2,000 years of exile, and no doubt that they have the right to have their place among the nations - not only historically but also geographically.

As to the Palestinians, who are the descendants of those Arabs who migrated in the last 200 years, they have the right, if they want, to have their own state - in addition to 21 other Arab states - but not at the expense of the existence of the state of Israel.
Why is neither the Israeli left nor the Israeli right, neither non-Zionist Jew nor the traditional liberal parties, concerned with the fact that, in Barak's words, "There is no way to win an occupation"? If it is indeed the "security" of Israel that's at issue, why is it not of critical importance to begin discussions immediately on a binational state?
Vivek
Ithaca , U.S.A.
Natan Sharansky:
We Jews have already been in this situation where there was no Jewish state to take responsibility for our people. Why should we be the first people in the world to dismantle our own national state.
From my point of view, and in light of your performance and points of view I think you are the most fit to be the prime minister of Israel. Why don't you go for it? (Arieh Struzberg of Rio de Janeiro, Gloria Landy of the US and Ruth Broch of Shadmot Mehola, Israel sent similar questions.)
Leon Naor
Petah Tikva, Israel
Natan Sharansky:
First of all thank you. I have heard this many times over the years - unfortunately, rarely from people who are eligible to vote in Israel. So I propose a deal - you bring one million more Jews who think like you on Aliyah and I will definitely "go for it."
Why have you become the ultimate "Jew of silence" in all matters of human rights, trafficking in women, equality for Israeli Arabs, the dignity of foreign workers, the suffering of the poor? Have you not betrayed the legacy of people like Sakharov who risked life, limb, and reputation to give you a life of freedom?
Rose Weinberg
Jerusalem, Israel
Natan Sharansky:
I am always amazed how often Sakharov’s name is used for defending political positions which he would have never supported. Sakhraov was a great human rights champion because he believed in the sanctity of the individual and he was not willing to sacrifice that sanctity on the altar of some political cause.

With his remarkable moral clarity, Sakharov understood that a nation that does not respect the rights of its own people will always be a threat to its neighbors. That is why he was opposed to supporting any form of dictatorship under any pretext. He resisted and criticized the pressures put on Israel to appease the dictatorships around us.

I have no doubt that he would be vehemently opposed to any peace processes which was not anchored in the advance of human rights and democracy. It is no accident that those closest to him in the past share this view. If you are really interested in the question of whether I have betrayed the legacy of Andrei Sakahrov, you should read very carefully what he said and wrote and then read what I have said and wrote, and how I have voted in the various governments in which I have served. When it comes to human rights questions, I promise that you will not find any difference. Every position I have ever taken in any government I served was consistent with the principles I learned from Sakharov, the man whom I will always consider my "Rabbi."
How can the non-Jewish Russian immigrants who emigrated to Israel with their Jewish relatives be further integrated into Israeli society?
Charles Hoffman
New York, NY, USA
Natan Sharansky:
A lot more can be done to make the process of conversion as "user friendly" as possible but still stay within the bounds of Halacha. As one of the initiators of the Neeman Commission, I believe we should continue to work in the direction it started.
How does an American Jew who is a devout Zionist in his/her heart be a true Zionist without living in Israel? Or is this a contradiction and one can be a Zionist only by being in Israel?
Mark A. Lipton
Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Natan Sharansky:
To be a good Zionist for me means to have a strong connection with the State of Israel, to feel oneself a defender of Israel, particularly in these difficult times of terrorism and anti Semitism, and to understands the centrality of Israel for Jewish life, Jewish unity and the Jewish future.
How many Jews from the former Soviet Union are expected to make Aliyah in the next five years? How is Israel promoting itself as a location for immigration, as opposed to other sites (e.g. United States, Germany, Canada, etc.)? Is Israel strengthening the criteria for immigration so as to avoid an influx of non-Jews? Has Jewish re-emigration back to the nations of the former Soviet Union become a significant problem? (A similar question was asked by Natan Hirsch from Tokushima City, Japan)
Brian S. Ruderman
Boca Raton, Florida, USA
Natan Sharansky:
The numbers of FSU immigrants have dropped significantly. If there are no dramatic changes, I do not expect more than 100,000 immigrants to arrive in the next five years. The Jewish Agency and the government are using new opportunities to strengthen their ties to the Jewish community in the former Soviet Union, but in the end the decisive factor is the stability of our security situation and our economy and the attractiveness of life in Israel compared to life in other countries.

As for your question regardiing strengthening criteria for immigration, no changes have been made in the law of return but their have been more efforts to strengthen Jewish identity among potential immigrants before they arrive. The numbers of Jews reemigrating back to the former Soviet Union is negligible, but we must ensure they stay that way.
As minister of diaspora affairs, how do you relate to the many Israelis who have made "yerida" to the United States. Many of these Israelis are secular and send their kids to public schools where they quickly assimilate and intermarry. What steps are being taken by the government to ensure that these former Israelis retain a connection to their land and people? (Jordan Hirsch of Dallas, Texas asked a similar question.)
Adam Sandler
Great Neck, NY, USA
Natan Sharansky:
The first measure to be taken is to work to make our society more attractive, a place where all Jews want to live. The government does have programs such as Bayit Yisrael to try and maintain the ties but I agree that we can do much more. As to the fact that secular Israelis are not connected to their Jewish roots, this is a problem within our own educational system that I hope will change. I know many Israelis who while living abroad discover for the first time what it means to be an active part of a Jewish community.
Is Edna Arbel fit to be a High Court Judge after the scathing criticism of her by the Attorney General Menachim Mazuz , and her politically motivated recommendation to indict Prime Minister Arik Sharon?
James Paton
Glasgow, Scotland
Natan Sharansky:
Edna Arbel is a sitting judge of the Supreme Court and any statement I would make about her suitability or about her qualifications would be inappropriate. In general, I am very impressed with the checks and balances in Israel's democratic system and I have confidence in our legal institutions.
I was very much sad to see Yisrael b'Aliyah, and its platform, dissolve into the Likud party in the last elections. You did manage to raise the threshold for a party's entrance to the Knesset from 1.5% to 2.5% (which is arguably still too low a number). What about the other issues of direct representation, transparency and accountability, i.e. that the prime minister and at least 50% of the Knesset members must be elected directly? (Martin Cooper of Jerusalem asked a similar question.)
Gill Vinokoor
Midreshet Ben Gurion, Israel
Natan Sharansky:
When I entered politics, I said that since our party was trying to integrate new immigrants into Israeli society, we would know when we had succeeded when we would disappear.

I think Yisrael B'aliya fulfilled its historic role and I am proud that it helped bring new immigrants into the Israeli mainstream rather than allow a lack of representation to breed resentment among one million Jews, a resentment which in time could be very destructive for Israeli society. As for the important issues such as direct representation, accountability etc, with two seats it will be hard for our party to influence change, but we will certainly try.
How is it that someone like yourself, who was the victim of discrimination in the USSR and who once fought for freedom, has done nothing to break the Orthodox monopoly over religion in Israel, which discriminates against Reform conversions and forces many immigrants to Israel from the FSU to go overseas in order to get married?
Rabbi Michael Boyden
Hod Hasharon, Israel
Natan Sharansky:
I not only fought for freedom in the former USSR, I have been fighting for freedom ever since my release. The question of religious issues in a Jewish state is fundamentally different than religious issues within a Jewish community. As an example, one cannot have different rules of Kashruth in a citizen army where all have to serve. So while I understand the question and empathize with your concerns, the solutions for Israel are far more complicated than you may realize.

My efforts in the years since I entered politics have been focused on finding practical solutions to problems like marriage, burial, conversion, etc. without having to wage ideological wars that I feel are very destructive to the unity we need within Israeli society. We have achieved some successes – a solution on the burial issue is one example– and others will take longer to work out. As for marriages abroad, I fully support civil marriages and we made many attempts to bring legislation on this issue.

Again, I would like to remind you that to compare the situation in Israel with the oppression of a totalitarian state in which all forms of religious expressions were banned is simply ludicrous.
Why are you so against Jonathan Pollard's release? You of all people should be trying and demanding his release. You were persecuted yourself. What's your excuse? (Joe Braun from Australia, Eleonora Shifrin from Jerusalem and Lital Yacobovitch from Ashkelon asked similar questions.)
Brad Lawrence
Pleasanton, USA
Natan Sharansky:
Jonathan Pollard must be released. The Israeli government and all its citizens have a moral obligation to do everything we can. I have tried my best to do what I can and will continue to do all I can. The assumption of your question is simply erroneous and based totally on misinformation.
What can the Israeli government do to assist pro-Israel student activists on American college campuses?
Josh Hamerman
Scotch Plains, New Jersey, USA
Natan Sharansky:
For starters, the government should facilitate efforts to bring students to Israel on a regular basis so that they can feel a part of what's happening and learn first hand the true facts about the issues being raised on campuses.

This can help reinforce their pride and self-confidence as Jews and help them support a country and society which is living by the highest moral standards under the most trying circumstances. No other country in the world would be so sensitive to the rights of the civilians of another society under anything approaching the challenges faced daily by our citizens.
What is your vision of the ultimate solution between Israel and the Palestinians, and in the course of your answer could you explain the reasons of your voting against Sharon's disengagement plan? (A similar question was asked by Albert Schweitzer of San Francisco, U.S.A.)
Alex Bukhman
Houston, Texas
Natan Sharansky:
I have always believed that real peace will only be forged between Israelis and Palestinians if the Palestinians develop a free society. Unlike most of our political leaders. I believe that democracy is as appropriate for Palestinians as for anyone else. That is why I have always argued and continued to argue that Israel and the world should link the territorial concessions, money, legitimacy and other benefits it gives the Palestinians to the degree of openness, transparency and democratization within Palestinian society.

I support making territorial concession to the Palestinians and Palestinian statehood not because I think the Jews have no right to Judea and Samaria but because I do not want to rule another people. But without democracy on the Palestinian side, a Palestinians state will always be a threat to Israel.

My criticism of the peace process on all stages in every government was based on this premise.
Throughout the Diaspora there are millions of Jews who once lived in Israel, care deeply for it, speak the language and have been instrumental in its survival. Surely, it is about time that that the Israeli government accept this and stop the disenfranchisement of over half of the Jewish nation. Giving Jews of the Diaspora a limited role in mainstream Israeli democracy would also serve to address the demographic crisis, would you not agree?
Adam Salkin
Leicester, United Kingdom
Natan Sharansky:
There are hundreds of thousands of Jews, not millions, who once lived in Israel and who now live in the Diaspora. I would not however call them disenfranchised since all of these people can vote merely by showing up at the polls.

It is true that there is no provision for an absentee ballot and I support the law which was introduced by MK Moshe Arens to institute such a procedure. In my view, the importance of this law lies not only in helping address the demographic issue, but also in deepening the connection of Israelis living abroad to Israel.
In Israel, Arabs are clearly second-rate citizens and the territories have become one big gulag. In the context of your personal experience with discrimination of Jews in the former Soviet Union, how can you support the discrimination of Palestinians in Israel and the territories?
Vadim Lebedev
Paris , France
Natan Sharansky:
Arab citizens of Israel enjoy the rights and advantages of a democratic society. They can openly criticize the government and use democratic means to change the society. In fact, the State of Israel is the only place in the Middle East where Arabs have the right to speak against their own government or publish their opinions in a free press or petition independent courts to protect their rights.

As for the situation of Arabs who live beyond the Green Line, their lack of freedom is a direct result of the repression of the Palestinians by their own "leaders" and the campaign of terror that those "leaders" have launched against Israel - which has forced us to defend ourselves. In the Soviet Union, no one had a right to dissent. Thus, to compare the situation of Israeli Arabs or even Palestinians in the territories to the situation that existed in the Soviet Union is frankly ridiculous.

That is not to say that discrimination within Israel is not a problem just as it is a problem in many other democratic countries. The gaps in Israel need and should be addressed through programs of affirmative action which I have always tried to implement in the different ministries I have led. My record is very clear on this matter.
Questions
Can you accurately put into words your feelings upon setting foot into Israel for the...
Why do you not support mass conversions for Russian immigrants, like those for Ethiopian...
What, if anything, is the current government going to do about the ever-increasing gap...
How does Israel intend to improve its hasbara (public relations) - by closing consulates...
As a student in a very liberal school, I am often confronted with anti-Israel rhetoric...
Do you think that building an 8-meter high concrete wall through prime Palestinian...
Why didn't you involve yourself in the Noam Federman case, given the similarity of his...
The Gaza disengagement plan appears to be becoming less "unilateral" by the minute, as...
Why do you, born in Russia, believe that you have more of a right to live in the land...
Why is neither the Israeli left nor the Israeli right, neither non-Zionist Jew nor the...
From my point of view, and in light of your performance and points of view I think you...
Why have you become the ultimate "Jew of silence" in all matters of human rights,...
How can the non-Jewish Russian immigrants who emigrated to Israel with their Jewish...
How does an American Jew who is a devout Zionist in his/her heart be a true Zionist...
How many Jews from the former Soviet Union are expected to make Aliyah in the next five...
As minister of diaspora affairs, how do you relate to the many Israelis who have made...
Is Edna Arbel fit to be a High Court Judge after the scathing criticism of her by the...
I was very much sad to see Yisrael b'Aliyah, and its platform, dissolve into the Likud...
How is it that someone like yourself, who was the victim of discrimination in the USSR...
Why are you so against Jonathan Pollard's release? You of all people should be trying and...
What can the Israeli government do to assist pro-Israel student activists on American...
What is your vision of the ultimate solution between Israel and the Palestinians, and in...
Throughout the Diaspora there are millions of Jews who once lived in Israel, care deeply...
In Israel, Arabs are clearly second-rate citizens and the territories have become one big...
Previous guests
Jerrold Kessel and Pierre Klochendler
National Union MK Binyamin Elon
U.K. Ambassador Simon McDonald
Housing Minister Isaac Herzog
Chief Reserves Officer Ariel Heimann
Former Shin Bet chief Carmi Gillon
Ex-Mossad chief Efraim Halevy
Mina Teicher on the U.K. academic boycott
Likud anti-pullout leader Uzi Landau
Diplomatic affairs analyst Akiva Eldar
Meimad MK Rabbi Michael Melchior
Haaretz Mideast commentator Zvi Bar'el
IDF Infantry and Paratroops head Yossi Hyman
Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom
Education Minister Limor Livnat
Ta'al MK Ahmed Tibi
Malcolm Hoenlein Conf. of Presidents
WJC Chairman Israel Singer
Former FM Shlomo Ben-Ami
Yahad chairman Yossi Beilin
ADL Director Abraham Foxman
Former PM Ehud Barak
NRP leader Effi Eitam
Deputy PM Ehud Olmert
Min. for Jerusalem Natan Sharansky