A Special Place in Hell / Real men don't talk Mideast peace
Much too much of it has nothing to do with ideology, God's promises or promises to God. For Jews and for Palestinians, much too much of it has to do with the need to prove oneself a man.
By Bradley Burston Tags: Israel news Middle East peaceBEIT SHEMESH - There was something wrong with the air here the day President Obama hosted Mahmoud Abbas and Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House. There was a bottom-heavy grip to the heat, the air almost too thick to breathe, as though it had to be forced down, like medicine.
In other places, this freight in the weather is the kind which announces a monsoon, or an earthquake. Not here. Here it was murder that was in the air. It just hadn't happened yet.
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Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman |
| Photo by: Daniel Bar-On |
The stage had been set for days. Israel's most influential former chief rabbi had ushered in the week with a message about the Palestinians that hinted at expulsion and flirted with genocide.
Soon after, the head of Hamas' political bureau told an interviewer that the upcoming peace talks would come to nothing. "I tell my people that the Palestinian state and Palestinian rights will not be accomplished through this peace process," Khaled Meshal said, "but will be accomplished by force, and it will be accomplished by resistance."
The army and the police would later say that there were no special alerts in place for attacks against civilians. As if any were needed.
In fact, none of it was needed. Nor is it ever. Not when there is any threat of peace.
There is something in the air here that militates against peace itself. It is more than mere tribalism, although tribalism is a part. It is more than past experience, although history's lessons have been almost uniform in their bitterness.
What it is, constitutes something akin to a religion of its own, rooted in fundamentalism and terrifying focus, not an unusual circumstance in this cradle of monotheism and mania.
Where it comes to peace talks, this new religion has an oddly unifying effect on extremists, whether Jewish, Muslim, or even Born-Again Christian. None may believe in a Holy Land shared by Israeli and Palestinian states, but just to be on the safe side, a number of them are going to make sure that it doesn't happen.
What is all this, really? Much too much of it has nothing to do with ideology, God's promises or promises to God. For Jews and for Palestinians, whom history and tragedy have often and profoundly robbed of the sense and the substance of manhood,
much too much of it has to do with the need to prove oneself a man.
Even at the price of thinking like a 12-year-old boy.
Real men, this religion preaches, don't talk Mideast peace. Real men do not compromise. Real men neither bend nor relinquish, they concede no error, correct no course.
It is a religion whose first tenet is that a peace which does not conform to the vision of the extremist is no peace at all. It is a religion which effectively believes that there can be no peace. My way or the die way.
Thus it is, that Avigdor Lieberman chose a festive pre-Rosh Hashanah gathering of his Yisrael Beiteinu – perhaps the only Israeli political party which looks down on and dislikes native-born Israelis nearly as much as it dislikes and looks down on Arabs – to declare that a U.S.-brokered peace with the Palestinians is "unattainable, not in the course of this year, and not in the course of a generation."
Lieberman and Meshal, Eli Yishai and Mahmoud Zahar, all share more than just this religion of negation. They are bullies. They bully their peoples into believing that compromise is immoral, and that the highest form of courage is the frank pursuit of violence.
On the eve of the White House meeting, my Palestinian-American colleague Ray Hanania wrote that peace would depend on real courage from both Netanyahu and Abbas. "Do they have the courage to stand up to the fanatics in their own community and confront the growing anger from the moderates who are pulled apart by violence, failure, and the actions of the other side?" he asked.
Many years ago, a Hasidic figure, now largely forgotten, taught that a human being - a real person, male or female, a mensch - is made with a Gibor (hero) on one shoulder, and a Tzaddik (righteous one) on the other. The first takes initiative, takes responsibility, takes chances, the second taking the long view, the broad view, tempering justice with wisdom.
By tradition, the concept of the Gibor is more complex than its English equivalent. True heroes, the Talmud says, resist, conquer their own passions, for the sake of doing what is truly righteous.
In the end, what in the world are the extremists really after?
They are after your humanity. They are betting that when the smoke clears after the damage caused by settlement expansion and drive-by killings, moderates will have surrendered to apathy, despair, or vengeful rage, and the extremist will then have won.
In the long run, though, the one thing that bullies cannot defeat, is courage.
For this peace to have any chance, two peoples, the Jewish and the Palestinian, here and abroad, must take a stand against their own extremists. To reclaim their own independence. Our independence.
It may well make more sense, in the present reality, to put your money on bloodshed. "I hope that one of my personal rules about the Middle East is proved wrong," Thomas Friedman wrote as the talks neared, "that in this region extremists go all the way and moderates tend to just go away."
In response, my wife wondered aloud why, under this formula, we were still here.
Perhaps its time to call moderates what we, in fact, are. Extremists for peace.
The occupation, the culture of militant Islam, the constant undermining of peace moves, the propaganda that states that killing of civilians is ever justified or that theft of land is somehow legal – all of it is after your humanity.
Resist. They'll only take your soul if you let them.
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DON'T TALK "PEACE": THEY RUIN IT {ALL} OVER!
One does not need heroes to make peace here. One needs a compelling reason to do so now. As in all deals, both sides need to feel that any deal they get today will be better than the one they can negotiate tomorrow. Otherwise the temptation to kick the can down the road is not only inevitable, it is logical. Why risk anything when you honestly believe that your chances of cutting a better deal improves with time? The international community needs to figure out a way to pressure the Palestinians in particular that its use it or lose it time. The Israeli's are already under enough pressure.
Alas, the leadership on both sides are no heroes, they are not even righteous, they are more concerned about protecting their own hides and finding ways to blame the "other" side for the pending failure. Both sides already have a multitude of excuses in their bags to blame the other side. Neither Abbas nor Netanyahu have the courage to end this conflict.
Great article, but the phrase is "militates against" not "mitigates against".
Despite all the trouble caused by monotheism (Lacking respect of nature: "Fill the earth and subdue it", the rules on sexuality and so on), I don't think that the concept of men as they often present themselves nowadays, that is as despots over families or countries, on whom there's also a pressure to be autonomous (at least as I perceive it), is genuinely semitic or oriental. By the way (in order to focus on my own national adherence), it neither seems to be genuinely germanic. Here at last, it was on acceptance of Roman elements in forging the modern european legal systems, that ordinary (not aristocratic) men were given particular rights over their families, to be largely autonomous and - nolens-volens maybe - to be in feverish competition. Imposing one's will on others, rather than to cultivate democratical manners: doesn't this seem to be typical male behaviour nowadays? Even Arminius, the guy who managed to muster several germanic tribes and to fight back the Romans in the year 9 after Jesus' birth, had been active in the Roman army before those events, thus got to know a good deal of Roman culture. Without claiming here to know the ultimate truth, I wonder if the "pater familias", the concept of the mighty, autonomous man, may have his roots in Greco-Roman antiquity rather than in monotheism, until things got mixed up.
kol ha kavod - and I think what you wrote is equally true of politics in the US right now, especially on the right. Moderation in political discourse is being driven off the field by extremist rhetoric reinforced by clueless media. Reasonable people in the Republican Party one would think would be trying to help rescue our economy, reform immigration, and pursue other important goals are ducking responsibility and contributing to higher and higher levels of frustration and gridlock which will only make things worse.
"Reasonable" people realize that it is the socialists and the extremely leftist U.S. media that has become the tail wagging the dog which has driven the ecomony and the 2008 election to verge of socialism. Margaret Thatcher had it right when she said, "The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of everybody elses money."
What this peace process needs are a Palestinian and an Israeli Trotsky, who will together (1) make peace for the good of their resp. people and (2) combat without any mercy all sorts of extremists and religious fanatics, who are endangezring peace for their own agenda
Ben-Gurion stated: "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ...
The US backed Israel as a means to prevent the Russians gaining a foothold there, so the Russians went about it by stealth and are now dictating US policy there.
you can keep on making wrong turns, eventually you'll get there-in 10 minutes or 10 years. It is a matter of the choices made. Peace is the destination and it WILL be arrived at when real men begin making wise choices.
While it is true that 'peace' is the destination, it will never be reached by following the lead of men. The 'mess' in the ME will only be resolved by YHWH and Messiah.
After Nero's death, Rome was willing to over look the revolt if it surrendered the leaders but the Jewish leaders thought it was better to fight to the death for all Jews then to compromise with Rome and the Jewish people have been paying for 2000yrs. Israel has only been a united country 90yrs out of the last 3000yrs during Saul, David and Solomon rule, it was split in to Judah and Israel after Solomon until the Romans, the last 40yr maybe counts. King David made peace with the Arabs living in Israel after King Saul try to kill them all to make Israel truly Jewish. Now 3000yrs later it continues, who do you want to lead Israel a Saul or a David?
... anyway, you're rigt on, when you eventually get to the gist of it... Shana Tova!
I agree. An even-handed essay, but with lots of hot air to say the obvious. But I like the end: "Perhaps its time to call moderates what we, in fact, are. Extremists for peace."
Mr Burston: The answer to true peace is hidden in plain sight. If you have Arab neighbors would you ask them to baby sit your 2 years old daughter for a couple of days because your wife is having a baby and you need to be next to her? But first you have to have an Arab neighbor to answer this question, don't you? And if you have one there shouldn't be a 25 feet wall between you. Then ask yourself this question: who built the wall? Was it built by extremists or mainstreamist? I prefer peace with no walls of any kind. As a human I want to live free of enslaving ideology and politics. I want to call Tel Aviv and Gaza, Nablus and Haifa, Jerusalem and Sederot home regardless of my religion and political affiliation. If that is not peace then I don't know what.
As a Jew i am frustrated to read statements time and time again from foreign minister Lieberman, he is not in any way helping to solve a 60 year issue by continuing to make statements that do not represent the entire state of Israel, he has extreme views the cabinet should talk as one and it about time the cabinet agres to talk with one voice instead of giving off so many mixed messages. Israel needs peace this has gone on too long just freeze settlements for the one year everyone sais it will take to make peace, we all know it probably will not be a reql peace but at least lets try one years no big deal but internationally Israel needs tp start winning public relations battles it loses every time in thai regards, juset freeze buildings for one year try peace route if all else fails build a new israel in west bank for future protection. But at least lets try now. There is a general feeling this is last chance lets try take it all jews and israel together
I watched his speech, Lieberman is not capable of speeking freely without notes. What he is capable of, is undermining the same gov he is part of, FM, top dog, so to speak. He is also very good at inciting hatred and discrimination, his brainwashing methods seem to work. On the other hand Fatah and Hamas are divided as well. They dont speak wiith one voice either. But is it really necessary for Liberman to copy Hamas? This is no excuse in a democracy, for a FM to torpedo his own PM while staying in Gov. Lieberman cant have it both ways, disrupting the PM's actions and staying in the gov. He cant fool "educated" people. Either he supports his gov. or if he disagrees, he has to leave the gov. I just wondered, when was the last time Lieberman was seen in Paris Madrid Rome Berlin London Stockholm Amsterdam or Copenhagen? He only seems to visit Kazachstan Belarus and Africa. The israelis should ask themselves if this is the man they want to have as a FM, the man that they want to speak for them, the first diplomat. leader of all israel's diplomats.
There will be peace when the Arabs accept defeat.
...the rest of their lives on their knees.
It is truly despicable that you have a Government paid Rabbi just days before the Peace Talks calling for Genocide of Palestinians and not for the first time, then you have Netanyahu going to Washington fraudulently saying he wants peace but of course new demands are a Jewish State and the Changing Landscape, blah, blah, and still he says peace can be achieved within a year and then we have the FM of the same government dashing this announcement with this statye of no way can this be done and not even in a generation. And you expect that the world should believe anything that comes out of Israeli mouths?
I believe the latest "Peace Agreement" has provisions for "Harem Guards" that might be right up your alley.
just stupid
For you, any humor that you personally don't pull out of your left pants pocket is not funny. Get over it.
Its a hallmark of some people to analyze the "real reasons" for the conclusions of others. This is pathetic and what the author has done, the equivalent of ME writing here that "the author of this article has a deep need to appear super-liberal as it allows him to feel morally superior to others." Lieberman's views resonate for a reason and that has to do with Realism rather than emotional hope. Abbas IS still the Islamist in a suit. Moreover, a very recent poll indicates that 80% of the Palestinians would STILL advocate terror attacks on Israeli citizens regardless of the outcome of these talks. My word you, Bradley, is how can you so blithely ignore these realities while resorting to such sophmoric psychologizing.
the reality is that the palestinians have been victims of israeli oppression for so long that it now looks normal in the eyes of your spoiled lifestyle.
the reality is that the palestinians have been portraying themselves as victims for the last 60+ years, with explicit support and prodding of the Arab league, for the sole purpose of being used by fellow Arabs to destroy the State of Israel.
I agree with Liberman that peace is not atainable at this time. The Arabs can't agree to a compromise between Fatah and Hamas. How in the world any sane individual can expect any final solution agreement. It is mission impossible, it will never happened period. The Americans allways optimistic about somebody everybody alse to solve their problem and conflicts, but find themself totaly uncaipable to solve theirs. It is a fake optimism devoid of substance and it is not going to work. The best for Israel and Arabs is to have an economic peace, improving standards of living for both, that eventualy will need to the real peace without rigid borders.
Sharon (from Likud) understood how important public opinion is and withdrew from Gaza setlements. Sharon understood the peril of being isolated and marginalized and with the withdraw he in fact won many new friends. Now Bibi from Likud is talking about hard concessions and taking risks and thinking out of the box. It will be interesting to see if Bibi will succeed in avoiding Israel's isolation. Internaly Israel suffered from the Gaza withdraw but internationally Israel won the hearts and mindsthe "wars" in 2006 and 2008 had the support of the international community. Thinking out of the box could mean making peace with a palestinian state in the westbank and staying at war with a second palestinian state in Hamastan. 2 Palestinian states? Is this what Bibi has in mid when he says "creative thinking"?
This is a tradition that goes back to men like David Ben Gurion, Moshe Dayan, Ariel Sharon, Yitzhak Rabin, or Shimon Peres. These were men who were not at all interested in peace. These were warriors. In their elderly years, Rabin and Peres talked a good game about peace, though they did not demonstrate this in practice. For instance, Peres could have placed Livni as the PM, but chose the more militant Netanyahu instead. Rabin seemed to bend with the Oslo process, but he was brutalizing Lebanon. Hopes are dim for this peace process... but there is hope nonetheless. For the sake of the world, peace needs to take hold between Israelis and Palestinians. We cannot continue kicking this can down the road.
If there ever came a day when we would be standing up to all the extremists, there would just be you, me, Ray Hanania, and Mark Lincoln. We would just be standing out there, by ourselves. Abbas and Netanyahu would both be standing where it's safe. Probably on the Moon. LOL!
There's not much to say. Let Netanyahu and Abbas and their advisors come up with a proposal that promises to meet the vast majority of each communitys' needs confidently, with the support of bi-lateral (Israel-Palestine) and multi-lateral agreements (Israeli-Arab League- US) with backbone. Submit the proposal to the knesset and Palestinian process, vote on it, ratify it hopefully. A consented and ratified peace document IS the will of the peoples. No extremist on either side can say, "No, that is not the will of my people". Not Israel Beitanhu, Shas, other Israeli parties, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, outside parties Hezbollah, Iran. Hamas and others, including many Palestinian solidarity and Israeli fanatics are currently acting to stop the negotiations and to prevent a proposal from going to the knesset and to the people. They claim to be the true representatives of the Palestinian people, the last elected representatives. But, in disrupting the formation of a joint Netanyahu/Abbas proposal they stop their own people from considering the terms of their own future.
How can someone be passionate about moderation? How can people be inspired to promote centerism? Centerists and moderates are observers on the field of battle. Unless you become an extremist, you can take a seat and wait for the outcome to be decided.
There is no passion. It is contrived intellectual observation and witticism. It makes light of others' views through excoriation and cynicism. In other words, it is the material of critics with nothing constructive to add.
At last, at least, some good sense.
this minister is against any peace between israel and the palestinians, but many in israel support and back his views. let israel stop blaming the palestinians. the palestinians have long been the real victims in this conflict, but they have been ignored. mr tony blair should open his eyes a bit more. but his sight hasn't been too good for quite a while now.
You took the words right out of my mouth!
Two types of mentality emerge. First are the "deniers" who see Israel with blinkers AND with rose tinted glasses to boot... The second, well, sadly they are the worst. No matter whatever truth, fact, argument, suggestion that is put forward, it is without thought or consideration, is just outright rejected! I fear that this mentality has become the majority in Israel today, and there are many abroad supporting, even fuelling this mentality. As discussed in a previous article, I fear that change will not happen because quite simply the "Will/Desire" is absent, and eventually, changes/peace will have to be "forced" upon the parties concerned...
especially among the younger generation. A greater Israel in case it turns into some apartheid state will never be seen as "legal" in the western public opinion. The deniers have the best cards at the moment. There is a posibility though that some of the "deniers" in this israeli government might be "deniers in disguise" and will agree on peace. Also there hasnt been convincing evidence yet that the US administration is only putting up a show. This US Gov. is still in power until 2012. As you said "forced peaced" is an option, a greater Israel ignorance and an apartheid state is the other. But I'm certain, in the western public opinion, an apartheid state will not stand longer than a few decades. A greater Israel, democratic, jewish, would have to get rid of approximately 1 to 2 million palestinians. If not, it will be either un-democratic and jewish or democratic and non-jewish. The question is what the deniers supporting this Israeli gov will decide to do in 10 years from now. Western public opinion is observing
Though the idea that moderates are 'extremists for peace' is not valid. Though peace is an anathema to the likes of Meshal and Lieberman,there is nothing 'extreme' about it or anyone sane enough to prefer it. "There is deceit in the hearts of those who plot evil, but joy for those who promote peace." - Proverbs 12:20
I don't know if the Jews have it after the many wars. It is unattainable in a year it takes generations to change people. The evolution of peoples minds and feelings attitudes takes time
should be the condition to have peace as it is the reason for the lack of peace. It is not as if Arabs one day woke up and said we hate Jews!. Talking about mentalities..please first check the Israeli one as they only understand expansion, aggression, and discrimination!
"It is not as if Arabs one day woke up and said we hate Jews!" Actually, that is precisely what happened. It started with Ishmael and Esau and has continued to this very day. It is clearly recorded that the descendents of Ishmael will always be at war with their relatives. The arab muslims are constantly fighting among themselves and they unify only long enough to fight against Israel and her supporter, the U.S. It will continue like this until Yehsua comes again and puts and end to the aggression against Israel.
No Jesus, No Peace! Know Jesus, Know Peace!
oh, that IS funny!
You''ll be laughing out the other end when Yeshua returns, takes the Believers with Him and leaves you (personally) and many others in the midst of this disintegrating pile of dung called the Middle East. You don't have to endure that, you know.
How can you be passionate about moderation? Extremists constantly have a full head of steam and have an automatic advantage every time they tangle with the moderates. First of all, the moderates are unlikely to show up. Secondly, they are unlikely to put themselves at any risk in the name of moderation. Every battle is fought by extremists of one side against extremists of the other side. That's why I gave up my beloved moderate/centerist position years ago and decided to actually join the fight.
but how would you square that view with the Irish peace agreements? Wasn't that made possible by the moderates who were tired of violence?
The extremists took all but the most extreme along with them as a coalition of the willing. Even though mass murderers now live freely amongst us, the fighting's over and people are living side by side in peace and harmony.
Too bad you picked the losing side!
All that rubbish called also 'peace process' should be stopped. It distracts the Jews, agitate arabs into bestial aspirations, bring nothing else that more deaths. Enough to dancing children in arab cities rejoicing over killing jewish man and woman ! What kind of deal can change that reality!
I absolutely agree that the extremist adherents of all three Abrahamic religions are equally intolerant, misogynistic, macho and authoritarian. Time for a Lysytrata moment??
I find Mr. Burston's excercise in creative writing to be offensive, trivializing and denigrating. It is the calling card of the left: if you do not share my views, then you are extreme and, as a result, have nothing of value to offer. I've said it before, this type of attitude is exactly like the attitudes (or supposed attitudes) you attack.
What a horrible ultra leftist (reminds me) of your colleague Gideon Levy..Two peas in a pod. Tomorrow is Tuesday and may pop in to send a word or two time permitting. Hey,have you gone all religious on us Bradley? I mean talking on the Talmud etc.Nevermind till next time I wish you the best.
Fascist??.... Gideon Levy is a very respected journalist, and if I may say so, very brave too. It must be with heavy heart that he feels he has to report the injustices and atrocities being committed by the Israeli government/state...
Respected by those who share his thinking. I am quite certain others would strongly disagree. Brave? In what sense? Again, others would strongly disagree. But that isn't your concern. You like to inflame using terms like fascist and atrocities and always against those in Israel.
Did you ever read Obadiah 1:15?
all extremist on both side need suppress for peace
Especialy the latter,who's only whim is the eradication of the Jewish state.Reading the comments coming from Egypt should give you pose for concern when today they said: There cannot be accepted to have a JEWISH STATE.Now old fellah take it from there and just think a moment before you present an article.
FAIL Next.....
"Do they have the courage to stand up to the fanatics in their own community and confront the growing anger from the moderates who are pulled apart by violence, failure, and the actions of the other side?" Besides, Tanakh says that Yisra'elim are to treat the goyim in 'Eretz-Yisra'el as acheinu. Why are we so damned insistent on stereotyping all Arab and Palestinian peoples as Mohammeds and Goliaths?
I have spent months wondering about the following mystery, and finally decided to admit defeat and ask for your help: What is the difference, according to Haaretz, between their lists of "Hot Topics" and "Most Popular"? You can observe that the two lists often overlap and contain some of the same articles, but the lists are also not identical and contain some different articles. So what is the difference, since one must exist! The headings for both lists contain the indicators "24 hours | 7 days", so you would think that one list, say "Hot Topics", would mean "most popular over the last 24 hours", while the other would mean "most popular over the last 7 days". But no, both lists have a little arrow under the "24 hours" part. My theory: Even Haaretz people don't know, only the computer people who designed the site. But they are long gone, so nobody will ever know. At least, this is my theory. Do you have a better explanation?
...up their hands, say "screw it!"--and then go develop an obsessive interest in prehistoric botanical trends or something--but a knowledgeable individual recently informed me that the "heat" that shows up in the newspapers (and especially in the talk-backs) is not truly representative of the Israeli populace as a whole--and so maybe the outlook isn't as darn grim as I've been thinking it is. (At least, I SURE hope that's the case.)
It depends on which group of rejectionists you are dealing with. 1. The religious believe that settlements hasten the coming of the messiah, in which case there is nothing to worry about. Israel will have a King, a few Shabbos Goys, and that's all you need. 2. Those who can see the Arab population problem (but only when it is very near), like Ariel Sharon, have departed from Likud and are no longer called right-wing. 3. The less "humanistic", like many in Likud or the Russians, will annex as much territory as they can, but will not offer the annexed Arabs Israeli citizenship. And since they are not looking far into the future, they don't see that this solution will lead to classical Apartheid. When the problem gets closer, they will worry about it. 4. The "humanist" right wingers, like Arens, will give the annexed Arabs citizenship, but they MINIMIZE the number of Arabs. I believe Arens mentioned that there are 1.5 million Arabs or so in the West Bank. Palestinians claim 2.5 mil, but they must be propagandizing. Now that Sharon has left Gaza, one need not worry about the Gazans, about 1.5 mil additional Arabs, so we are not dealing with any serious problem today. And as all right wingers say, if a problem develops in the remote future, we will take care of it.
There is a woman I know she is an ollah from London she lives in some remote outpost with her husband and I was saying to her once what does she think is the solution and she said give the palestinians all citizenship and make them swear loyalty to Israel as a jewish state. People like her actually believe that we can have our cake and eat it ( be a jewish state with all the palestinians ) They do not see the fact that the political reality will change if we gave the palestinians all citizenship. 1) Overnight you add the palestinians and the arabs living here together they out number the jews. 2) We have to end laws which give preferential treatement to jews like the law of return as Israel could no longer be called a jewish state and no more alliyah. 3) Arabs generally have more children than your average secular family. 4) As so many Israeli jews are secular without there being any anchors like the concept of a jewish state and having some elements of religion around them like in the US lots of them will marry out loose any interest in religion people who are not ultra orthodox need reminders sometimes they are jewish. We will find ourselves in a situation where religion is kept behind closed doors, no olim, arabs having more children than jews and they already outnumber the jews. Give it 10 maybe 20 years and Israel will be a defacto arab state with a jewish minority like it was in the arab world before 1948 when the jews were expelled. I think its unfair to actually call them radicals because they really do believe its just a matter of just saying palestinians your all israeli citizens and now its going to be business as usual where jews rule over a jewish state. They can't grasp the concept that if the jews are outnumbered by arabs we cannot have a jewish state.
You're saying Liberman is not pragmatic enough. So where does your pragmatism end? What will happen in 50, 100, 150 years to your so called majority. The model to which you subscribe is unsustainable because what you are not saying is that in the end you know that Muslim concept of democracy is to hold a vote once that will vote "you know who" out of existence. If that were not the case then why in fear their majority? If you do not have the means to protect yourself, if you do not assert your rights, if you do not point out the injustice that can't even conceive of Jewish sovereignty in Egypt, Jordan, etc. in their vast deserts while an entirely evil and hostile entity is planned in the heart of Jewish civilization then your eventual subjugation is only a matter of time.
As societies get modernized, the number of children born to an "average" woman declines. This is an empirical fact, which can be given convincing explanations. It is expected that Israeli Muslims will have a lower birthrate in the future. A wise law should not encourage high birthrate, which today it does because of Haredi pressure. In short, you see the future as a replication of the present, but nature is more complicated.
You just praised it,but did not elaborate on its content or merit.Your ,just saying "very good article" is not sufficient sorry.
I don't think I've mentioned before here on Haaretz Talkback that this Berkley educated journalist is a very wise man. Indeed, we should ask ourselves, do we want this territorial conflict to be decided by the bullies? Or do we want to work together collaboratively with those who have the regional background and experiences and find a resolution where both Palestinians and Israelis will be able to coexist? The majority of both peoples would prefer the moderate position any day!
All the talk in the world will not change the situation on the ground.And who cares where Bradley was educated? As if we were not aware and need your reminder? As far as both peoples wanting to compromise:Hey ho Smadar ..have you not learned in all these decades that the so-called Palestinians want only their way merely wanting it all leaving Israel LIKE THE EMPEROR WITHOUT ITS CLOTHES. briefly put--No Israel .Wake up we are not composing a symphony or a POEM.
to wonder relevance of Sorbonne but accepting relevance of Berkley