A Special Place in Hell / If the secret police ran a Jewish state
If the secret police ran the Jewish state, any and every move could be explained in two words and never more than two. Security reasons.
By Bradley Burston Tags: Israel News Shin Bet Middle East peace Bradley BurstonIf a Jewish state were run by the secret police, Israelis could disappear without a trace. No contact with lawyers. Court-ordered muzzles on broadcast and print news media.
If a Jewish state were run by the secret police, there were be gag orders forbidding journalists to write even of the existence of the gag orders.
Thank God such a thing couldn't happen here.
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| Photo by: Emil Salman |
If a Jewish state were run by the secret police, its agents would meet Spain's most prominent clown on his arrival at the airport. They would confiscate his passport, interrogate him on and off for six hours, and tell the Interior Ministry to order him expelled without entry.
Thank God such a thing wouldn't happen anywhere.
Because if the secret police ran the Jewish state, it would also run – and run with - the Interior Ministry. Which, in turn, would undermine and overrule the Foreign Ministry and even the Prime Minister's Office, changing the course of Israel's international diplomacy, its global public relations, and its relationship with Washington.
And because if the secret police ran the Jewish state, any and every move could be explained in two words and never more than two. Security reasons.
Moreover, if a Jewish state were run by the secret police, the chief of the secret police would hold an effective veto over the resumption and the substance of peace talks with the Palestinians, or over such issues as easing a crippling embargo on every one of Gaza's million and a half people.
No way we would let that happen here.
Or, if the defense ministry of the Jewish state were run by a furtive autocrat, in close cooperation with the secret police, the army might decide to bypass decisions of the High Court of Justice on such issues as the West Bank barrier or highway use by Palestinian motorists – thus gutting the court, and the separation of powers, of meaning.
And if, by some twist of fate, the Jewish state were run by the secret police, we would, all of us, be in danger of becoming Prisoners of Zion, our movements monitored and curtailed, our freedoms of the press, of free assembly, of due process, of religious expression, all placed in doubt.
We can only thank our lucky stars that none of this can ever befall us.
Enough of this fantasizing for one morning. Time to get back to work.
Time to grab a cup of coffee and leaf through the gag orders.
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If
Oh, how history repeats itself in what should be the least likely places. But then there is always Israel; it couldn't happen there, no?
Should have include a forwarding address.
Is President Obama's Attorney General's criminal investigation of eight banks as to misleading mortgage resale clients (according to "a person" familiar with the investigation, according to Reuters on Thursday) a declaration of war on Wall St. in order to send it crashing into the Israel lobby and thus into Israel so as to "stop the settlements"? I call it a war because, although this rumor could be quashed in a minute, if the rumor is true it will be allowed to run its course, even if that's predetermined to be a false alarm, and this will mean months of instability in the markets. I call this a strike suit because to second-guess the regulators who presided over the free-for-all build-up to the financial crash is an abuse of discretion no legal system could tolerate--but, on the other hand, he is the President, and he does seem intent on this "two-state solution" as on nothing else. And Israel has given him plenty of cause in the last week to conclude it is ignoring him.
Dear Bradley. You'll notice that my earlier post (#16) received over 100 thumbs-up. (gotta love the new format) What do you think, Brad, you want to maybe rethink your argument a little?
opine without any interference. have a little more faith in your fellow countrymen my friend, and little less of your enemies. for their mind set is on your family's destruction and that is all. imagine all you want and need, to be at peace with yourself, just don't stray too far away from reality. shalom
It touches on all the issues which the Israelis should thinking about. Israel is a military dictatorship, a police state. Freedom, justice and human rights is merely a hollow word here. Too much emphasis is given to religion.
It touches on all the issues which the Israelis should thinking about. Israel is a military dictatorship, a police state. Freedom, justice and human rights is merely a hollow word here. Too much emphasis is given to religion.
Just had a visitor from italy, a university professor, detained upon departure at Ben Gurion airport for several hours of questioning by the end of which he was not allowed to board the plane with his carry-on. As always, everything is explained by "security reasons". Needless to say, he would never come again...The security services must become more transparent and liable for their actions. The situation where they can do whatever they want, and then explain everything by "security reasons" is unbearable. We need a change!
because of the power which is given to these security people, these powers are abused. I have the same experiences and non of the guests I had want to return. Others already are not interested in coming. The Jews really have there way to keep everybody out or kick everybody out. Reciprocity!
The US courts ruled the gag orders part of the NSLs unconstitutional, Cipora, while Bush was President. We had our spell with contra-Constitutional government. We're recovering now. We also discovered almost all the Bush Admin abuses and we'll be paying for them with real money for some time. Look up Brandon Mayfield. The Spanish documents turned out to be his son's 7th grade homework. Some of the Bush Cheney stuff even shocked Alan Dershowitz and Joe Lieberman. Though Lieberman is now proposing giving Hillary Clinton the right to strip some US citizens of their citizenship, if there is an allegation that they have foreign connections, that she gets to define. Not many tea-baggers even like that idea.
We have several proposals that would allow Hillary Clinton to designate certain people affiliated with foreign entities who MAY be hostile and then gives her the ability to strip that person's citizenship. It was intended to be able to strip the citizenship only of accused domestic terrorist criminals, but could be used on political opponents. It may not go far. It was proposed by the Connecticut for Lieberman party and seconded by the Massachusetts Male Stripper, Scott Brown. Then there is also the proposal to deny competent counsel to alleged criminals.
In a real police state and see how long you'd last. As another poster said: this time you have run away with your tongue tfar oo much. Like Gideon Levy,Amira hass all three of plus more at Haaretz yoj'd be in clink before you all can say:jack robbinson as the saying goes.
"If a Jewish state were run by the secret police" they would be reading all these comments and.............................I gaged myself, saved them the trouble but can only happen if the secret police ran the Jewish state. Lol I think I need a coffee as well but only if.
Israel's vaunted liberal democracy has become window dressing to fool America's voters and Congress, nothing more. And that's the way most Israeli voters want it. That way they figure they can have their cake and eat it too. Wrong!
I wonder if anyone on this talkback had ever lived in a police state. Bradley is descending into mental dead end, Take a break, Bradley!
Wanted to add a text from Wikipedia about police states: "Genuine police states are fundamentally authoritarian, and are often dictatorships. However the degree of government repression varies widely among societies. Most regimes fall into some middle ground between the extremes of civil libertarianism and totalitarianism. In times of national emergency or war, the balance which may usually exist between freedom and national security often tips in favour of security. This shift may lead to allegations that the nation in question has become, or is becoming, a police state." I find this quit enlightening and Bradley should have read that before writing his article.
"In times of national emergency or war, the balance which may usually exist between freedom and national security often tips in favour of security." Bradley should know this. US population is loosing its civil liberties under much lesser stress than Israelis.
as i had posted once before, worry about the us. as i had found out by sheer happetnstance, the fbi has the authority and does issue what is called national security letters to individuals. these letters are issued under a total "gag order" by the fbi, without any judicial supervision at all. nearly one hundred and fifty thousand such letters have been issued by the fbi to individuals.
That was an abuse of the Patriot Act and the abuse was ended when Bush was still President. They now must have probable cause and the gag order is highly limited and can be fought in court. So they stopped the practiice. They also ended the sneak and peak, warrentless search capability.
"A National Security Letter (NSL) is a form of administrative subpoena used by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation and reportedly by other U.S. Government Agencies including the Central Intelligence Agency and the Department of Defense. It is a demand letter issued to a particular entity or organization to turn over various record and data pertaining to individuals. They require no probable cause or judicial oversight. They also contain a gag order, preventing the recipient of the letter from disclosing that the letter was ever issued. The gag order was ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL as an infringement of free speech" - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter The US security services cannot impose a gag order on their own, since this is "unconstitutional". Such a judicial "correction" is not possible in Israel, where there is no constitution. In any case, who would compare non-diclosure of an actual arrest (leading to the "disappearance" of a pesron), non-disclosure of the order to provide information (i.e., to hide the fact that a national security investigation is being conducted)? "Disappearnces" only happen under authoritarian rule, and in Israel, unfortunately. I would have been ashamed to repeat your nobsense, but you apparently believe you hit pay dirt and keep repeating it. It's only dirt, no pay.
Kohn, we live in the world. We are citizens of the world. We are affected by what happens in the world. We shall worry about it. If you don't mind. We worry about what happens in the US, in Britain, in Israel, in Dubai. Without our caring, our protesting the unjust, nothing changes. Stop being a nationalist provincial twit.
to distract people from what BB seems to be waking up to. Maybe he could make that the subject of his next revelations, or clarify if censorship is the limiting factor.
It was meant to create a democratic system without ANY disrimination with regard to one persons security, be they jewish or not, and look where you stand now, Mr Burston. Zion was an utopia that went wron along the way of the creation of jewish Israel.
decades, the law enforcement agencies (too numerous to mention) perhaps make Israel appear as a military state. But realistically at this juncture, what other choice does it have? One can't force nations to come and sit at the diplomatic table as there has to be a will to change the hostile landscape. Mistakes with individuals and measures which appear draconian are a result of being constantly at a hypersensitive alert state for security reasons. In my opinion, Padro the clown should have answered the questions, even from his perspective instead of refusing to cooperate. Then he would have gone to Ramallah and on with the show. In addition, for every bad incident there are also good incidents in Israel. Now what's happening with the peace process?
...your most recent example is the explaining away of turning away from Israel anyone who even has a hint of understanding for the very real Israeli imposed plight of the Palestinians. Even a famous Spanish clown is not immune. Government officials, even from the United States, have been subject to almost, the same treatment. It's starting to take an enormous toll on whether Israel is really what it claims. And you are helping and have been for years. Gosh I hope you are proud of where you have helped guide Israel.
I've been critical of Israeli governments for years with regards to not doing enough in the diplomatic sphere with resolving the Palestinian - Israeli conflict - before Haaretz.com existed! Now, the security matters, I know little about but do know for a fact, that the Palestinians have not relinquished utilizing the use of terror, (as these terror groups still exist) whether Qassams or otherwise, to counter Israel's activities and other grievances against Israel. What justifies continuing violence beyond even the years it took the Western Allies to counter Nazism - 6 years? In addition, we are not in the era of post WWII and the British Mandate either. In particular to the Palestinians, this has been going on for over 46 years. From an international legal standpoint, the settlements are not annexed and therefore are occupying lands remaining disputed. It's through diplomatic channels which it must be resolved. But life is sacred and the Jewish people need to have guarantees that the terror will stop and acceptance of the Jewish State is also fundamental to peace. Israel's security measures are responding to the aggregation of violence towards it since its inception in 1948 by international consensus.
Perhaps the song may be rewritten by a radical conservative Israeli? If there is a symbol of humanity that is more touching and gentle than the clown, please let me know, Smadar.
If secret police ran the Jewish state, this sort of article wouldn't see the light of day - or if it did, Bradley Burston never would see it himself ever again once the commentary was published. Everyone who commented in favor of this piece would, likely, disappear. The newspaper would be sanctioned, or shut down. I'm gonna guess, though, that Brad Burston is alive and well, and free...and will continue to be for a long time. Let's, ah, not throw around terms like "secret police" or "police state". I mean, if secret police ran a state, the authorities would warn civilians off from shopping at certain supermarkets (say, Rami Levi), letting it be known that "We know who you are." Threats would be made against such civilians. So apparently, secret police are in charge of the PA. But of course, that's not a secret, right? But who cares? We're the bad guys, right?
The existence of other secret police states, even those that we are at war with, is entirely irrelevent to the behavior of our own secret police state. Israels fragile democracy (where is the constitution, is it a state for all its citizens, etc) is growing weaker.
Sometimes it's just a drip, drip, drip...
Brilliant parody.
Thanks to you "cutty" Burston..
Can I get a AMEN from the audience please....
Do you even know what Amen means?
how it operates. First of all there is no anarchy in police state and every power agency knows its bounds very well, no overruling needed. Second, there is never a conflict because all of them tightly controlled and directed from atop. All in all very strange article.
A police state can be as you described and it can be as this journalist described. It can be semi-police state too or it can be developing into one. Considering that israeli jews and israeli non-jews are treated differently for multitude of reasons it would not be something strange that one of the categories lives under a police state while parts of it are sipping over to the first category for interfering to much into the dealings with the second.
A shame you had to write the article, Brad. The greater shame is those who think bureaucrats have nothing but public good in mind and that the same bureaucrats know what public good actually is, always.
you know nothing about israel. you are an american sitting in texas nice and safe. we just got gas masks... all of us... because of the threat from hizbulla and iran.. think about that... all 6 million jewish citizens of israel issued gas masks... might make you happy to know we could be wiped out eh?
Still it is to easy to point to the "secret police". It is the majority of the population of Israel that makes it possible.
If the secret police ran Israel your mouth would have been shut long ago; Ha'aretz would not exist. You and Amira and Gideon are absolute proof that what you insinuate is NOT the case. Really Brad, this time you've gone too far with your b.s.
Little slow...
Thank G_D I am not still in Israel. I worked as a freelance journalist and often traveled to the West Bank, so even though I am an Israeli citizen, I might now be in jail and no one would know.
That it could not happen in Israel . The blue-highlighted lines are rare cases of very true , judges approved security precautions . Only saving lives take precedents to an obsolete openness in Israel . It is only Israel who can govern herself democratically to this extend under such extraordinary circumstances . Most others , even the most democratic countries would fail miserably in place of Israel . And criticisms are very welcome , you are in Israel .
'Hubris' is over-weening pride or self-confidence as when a man or state shows itself to be God-like." - definition In recent months we are witnessing the failure of one Israeli security organization after another. The common thread is "Hubris". It reminds one of the period following the six-day war victory which ended when Hubris prevented the recognition of the war to come (on Yom Kippur). To wit: 1. The Mossad operation in Dubai. Using 32(!) agents to assassinate an easily replaceable person, thus risking, and probably losing, these agents' ability to remain anonymous. Israelis understand this crazy failure, and the Mossad chief will be replaced this year. 2. Very high level IDF officers plot assassination of Palestinian militants who could otherwise be arrested, in complete disregard to Supreme Court decisions. Why not, if the Defense Minister disregards the Court order to evacuate ILLEGAL settlements. 3. Shin Bet goes on an expedition to harass and silence Uri Blau, a journalist doing his job to the benefit of the State, like many others, just because he exposes criminal behavior by IDF officers. (Reminds me of Nixon trying to use the CIA to explain away the Watergate crew.) 4. Now we have another variety of such nonsense when the military censor forbids publication of an arrest, which is discussed over the internet and the rest of the world knows about it. Can't the dummies absorb the recent lesson of the Anat Kamm case?
As usual, Brad, great article and very much to the point. Having said that, I'm wondering if the problem is getting even worse than you think. Posts to the new Talkback seem to go missing without trace and the number that make it through overall from all posting is far fewer than on the old Talkback. It might be tehnical reasons, or maybe 'security reasons' like you say. This post might have made it onto the old Talkback. I'll be fascinated to see if it makes it onto the new one. I doubt it, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
one thing for sure that I'm glad is gone is that visual logo of Burston's articles. The next thing we're working on which naturally involves peace and improvement within Israel, is for the text " Special Place in Hell" to be replaced as well.
*CENSORED*
thank you for a good belly laught, may made my day,
Turns out the guys were Hezbollah spies Maybe there are more. Security apparatus does the job it's supposed to do and you jump the shark with such hyperbole. No wonder they don't want you guys to know so much. You feed the enemies of the state.
Nothing has turned out yet. They are believed to have been charged and they have had no chance yet to refute those charges because they are not allowed to see their lawyers under the special conditions of their detention. We do not know their side of the story at all and you have condemned them already.
Annoying to me at times, but I respect his angle and take. A solid writer and willing to take on the ridiculousness that abounds here. Mr. Burston, I disagree with you, but you are proof that those around the world who are increasingly questioning the behavior of the state are not crazy. Thank you.
Why can't Ha'aretz and its contributers respect national interests instead of being so eager to be the first to break a story, no matter how delicate it may be and how wrongly it could be interpreted? It is obvious that any gag order will now be attacked by the company and inhabitants of Israel will have to continue to live with more than the threats from without.
and very revealing.
What do you mean IF...?
btw,Cutie Burston ,is US run by the Secret Police ? Not everybody gets admitted ´there ,clown credentials notwithstanding
It should read " if Jews ran militarist theocracy"